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Symphonie Trader System

  • #7,361
  • Mar 3, 2012 11:05am Mar 3, 2012 11:05am
Quoting ohammond
It doesn't matter that it repaints, when you go into the simulator, firstly take only trades that start with an extreme then wait for the trendline to change once the trendline has changed you will find the sentiment and emotion are usually the same colour anyway, then put in your trade. Practise those signals first in the simulator and you will get to see how often they work and it will give you confidence in the system as it is. Then when you've practised those, try other ways, like taking repaint plays (explanation of repaint plays is in Post...
what I'm saying is that even the signals from previous bars repaint... even the extremes.. It can go from the last 15 bars being in a red extreme to the last 15 bars changing to blue not giving me a clear exit signal. Either this is a glitch in the strategy tester or I havent experienced it in real time.
  • #7,362
  • Mar 3, 2012 11:09am Mar 3, 2012 11:09am
Quoting ccbobmorloc
Ok thanks.
that's what i thought.
I am beginning to understand why i always fail with this sytem.
I did test with lfh simulator and i don't have the same signal at all.
settings are exactly the same as yours and it's fxpro too, so i don't understand such a difference.
it is likely that we are much in this case on this forum
bobmorloc,

It appears by your post you are second guessing the Symphonie Signals. That ties directly to my post #7330. I recommend you read that post and then think about YOU before you start up the Metatrader and get your thoughts, strategy, and discipline in order to then trust the system and its workings. There is a reason people are doing well and that is because they have mastered the three keystones.

Evaluator.:nerd:
  • #7,363
  • Mar 3, 2012 11:16am Mar 3, 2012 11:16am
Quoting Dyekid217
what I'm saying is that even the signals from previous bars repaint... even the extremes.. It can go from the last 15 bars being in a red extreme to the last 15 bars changing to blue not giving me a clear exit signal. Either this is a glitch in the strategy tester or I havent experienced it in real time.
Dyekid217,

Extreme because it is a forward looking indikator is prone to repaints and that has been discussed at length on this thread. Sentiment indikator has also from time to time repainted. But I have never seen trendline repaint. Therefore, an entire Symphonie Signal will not repaint, not one bar! So, I recommend you read the tips section in post#1 if whipsaws are bother some to you then; there are other ways of delayed entry when you get a Symphonie Signal and clear explainations and charts are all contained in the Tips Section of post #1. Also, stochastics can also be of help to entering on a push in the direction of your signal. But that too is discussed in the tips section of post#1.

Evaluator.:nerd:
  • #7,364
  • Mar 3, 2012 11:21am Mar 3, 2012 11:21am
Quoting Dyekid217
here's an example.. even the trend/sentiment/emotion indicators repainted
NO. Trendline never repainted!

Also, see repaint strategy....in the tips section of post#1!!!!
  • #7,365
  • Mar 3, 2012 11:30am Mar 3, 2012 11:30am
haha sorry yeah I've just been testing the signals and read through some more of the thread.. now which exit strategy do you use?? I'm testing the one where you would wait 4-5 bars after the opposite extreme shows to exit unless it turns red/blue to match the original entry.

first trade was for 45 pips.. correct entry?
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  • #7,366
  • Mar 3, 2012 11:33am Mar 3, 2012 11:33am
um actually I just screenshotted an example.. Here you can see trend/sentiment/emotion all repainted one bar later. ?
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  • #7,367
  • Mar 3, 2012 12:03pm Mar 3, 2012 12:03pm
Quoting Evaluator
bobmorloc,

It appears by your post you are second guessing the Symphonie Signals. That ties directly to my post #7330. I recommend you read that post and then think about YOU before you start up the Metatrader and get your thoughts, strategy, and discipline in order to then trust the system and its workings. There is a reason people are doing well and that is because they have mastered the three keystones.

Evaluator.:nerd:
please

i am NOT second guessing the symphonie signals. Why shoul i ? yelena do so well with it.
I TRUST the system but i just want to understand why my signals (with yelena's template) are NOT the same as Yelena. I test with LFH simulator and signals are completely differents.
It's not a question of discipline or something else. It's just a fact.
  • #7,368
  • Mar 3, 2012 12:08pm Mar 3, 2012 12:08pm
Quoting bobmorloc
please

i am NOT second guessing the symphonie signals. Why shoul i ? yelena do so well with it.
I TRUST the system but i just want to understand why my signals (with yelena's template) are NOT the same as Yelena. I test with LFH simulator and signals are completely differents.
It's not a question of discipline or something else. It's just a fact.
Like my post above I'm noticing that all of the signals are repainting.. not just the extreme cycle.

Possibly this method is not effective using previous data to backtest. I will forward test this next week with small lots.. I don't really believe in demo testing.. there's no emotion involved.. even following the rules I'm getting very contradicting signals using the strategy tester
  • #7,369
  • Mar 3, 2012 12:57pm Mar 3, 2012 12:57pm
Quoting Dyekid217
Like my post above I'm noticing that all of the signals are repainting.. not just the extreme cycle.

Possibly this method is not effective using previous data to backtest. I will forward test this next week with small lots.. I don't really believe in demo testing.. there's no emotion involved.. even following the rules I'm getting very contradicting signals using the strategy tester

maybe you're right... maybe it's impossible to test repainting indicator with a simulator. but maybe it's another problem. i don't know .... MT4 settings or something else. well i'll try to find what is wrong next week.....
  • #7,370
  • Mar 3, 2012 1:01pm Mar 3, 2012 1:01pm
yeah not sure.. Even when I get a correct symphonie signal 5 bars later they all repaint not just the extreme cycle. So I'm not sure what's going on but after reading this thread they shouldn't repaint so often. I'm seeing it constantly when I test using the strategy tester more than 3 times in a given backtested day.

Maybe a more experienced user of this system can chime in.
  • #7,371
  • Mar 3, 2012 1:01pm Mar 3, 2012 1:01pm
Quoting ohammond
How did you manage to blow your account? Were you trading the symphonie system or something else?
I was using a hybrid of Symphonie and another method because I was trying to deal with the repainting issue.
I think I need to just trade with the trend and use one system and target small wins. I let a few of my trades go against me as I was expecting big runs- big mistake!

Hopefully I've learnt from my mistakes.
.... laughing all the way to the bank
  • #7,372
  • Mar 3, 2012 2:23pm Mar 3, 2012 2:23pm
Quoting Evaluator
ldHT,

This was an article that was back from 16 Feb really took my attention and I am now watching ''March 23rd for default to be announced after the close of business.'' Per the article. Actually, I am watch from now on as the EU and Greece may surprise everyone and avoid the delay and do it now as I am sure they have been planning under the smoke screen of all these Greece Bailout Sumits. I think now they were more planning meetings for how to handle the Greek exit of the EU.

Remember it is all ''Rainbows and Lollies'' from the Politicians...

Great post Eval. Why didn't you post this sooner? Do you think this article has merit? What's your opinion?
  • #7,373
  • Mar 3, 2012 2:28pm Mar 3, 2012 2:28pm
Quoting Dyekid217
yeah not sure.. Even when I get a correct symphonie signal 5 bars later they all repaint not just the extreme cycle. So I'm not sure what's going on but after reading this thread they shouldn't repaint so often. I'm seeing it constantly when I test using the strategy tester more than 3 times in a given backtested day.

Maybe a more experienced user of this system can chime in.
I'm testing Symphonie with a Strategy Tester right now (One that prints bar by bar as you let it go) and the indicators seem to behave fine with this simulator. I only experienced normal repainting, odd! Simulated taking signal to signal over almost 24 hours and had 5 winners out of 6 with 1:1 RR trading EUR/USD Only! Will test more when the markets open up again on Monday!
  • #7,374
  • Mar 3, 2012 2:31pm Mar 3, 2012 2:31pm
hm this is very weird.. I'm finding that 1hr behaves fine as well.. 3 trades 3 winners for 95 pips.

Could it possibly be the rate at which we play the strategy tester?? I have it on 32 on the 15m maybe it is moving too fast for the matrix to respond

also I'm not worried about the extreme indicator painting I know it repaints... I wait the 4-5 bars after if it doesnt go back to my original position then I close the trade.. But when I test on the 15m the trend/sentiment/emotion indicators repaint pretty badly. Not sure why I'm gonna run it on a speed slower than 32 and see what happens
  • #7,375
  • Mar 3, 2012 2:57pm Mar 3, 2012 2:57pm
Quoting Dyekid217
hm this is very weird.. I'm finding that 1hr behaves fine as well.. 3 trades 3 winners for 95 pips.

Could it possibly be the rate at which we play the strategy tester?? I have it on 32 on the 15m maybe it is moving too fast for the matrix to respond

also I'm not worried about the extreme indicator painting I know it repaints... I wait the 4-5 bars after if it doesnt go back to my original position then I close the trade.. But when I test on the 15m the trend/sentiment/emotion indicators repaint pretty badly. Not sure why I'm gonna run it on...
One thing is for sure: Backtesting this strategy the classic way won't work due to the repainting, but forward testing it using a trade simulator works just fine. The only weird thing I noticed when forward testing it with the simulator is that sometimes the Extreme Indicator and the Matrix won't show the same thing, but when that happens I simply don't entered a trade. Have not noticed this issue during normal market hours. So yes, looks promising this one

At the moment I'm testing putting the SL at the nearest swing High/Low. If I had done that I would have had 6 out of 6 winning trades with 1:1 RR on EUR/USD. Will test this further. Again, I'm only able to test a single Timeframe at a time in the simulator so I can't measure it against a higher timeframe's trend, so this way they are not the best quality trades. So far so good though.

I also will have to test this on higher timeframes since work will keep me from the charts from 08.00 to 16.00 - 17.00 soon. I was thinking like the 4H and Daily! Anyone with experience on those timeframes with the Symphonie System?
  • #7,376
  • Mar 3, 2012 3:37pm Mar 3, 2012 3:37pm
went 7 for 7. tested 8 days in Jan 2011 (jan 5- Jan 13th) in the 1hr chart.

658 pips gain.

I'm not sure but I'm not getting the same win rates testing lower TF's as there is so much repainting.. It might not repaint as much during live.. I will test and see what my results are. I used exit strategy 1 but instead of waiting to close after opposite extreme I waited til the close of the 5th candle (not end of 4th beginning of 5th) after the opposite extreme showed.I found that by the end of the 5th candle the trade went back into my favor. The results are outstanding.
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  • #7,377
  • Mar 3, 2012 3:44pm Mar 3, 2012 3:44pm
Quoting Dyekid217
went 7 for 7. tested 8 days in Jan 2011 (jan 5- Jan 13th) in the 1hr chart.

658 pips gain.

I'm not sure but I'm not getting the same win rates testing lower TF's as there is so much repainting.. It might not repaint as much during live.. I will test and see what my results are. I used exit strategy 1 but instead of waiting to close after opposite extreme I waited til the close of the 5th candle (not end of 4th beginning of 5th) after the opposite extreme showed.I found that by the end of the 5th candle the trade went back into my favor. The results...
I've found the hourly to be far the best of the lower timeframes to trade this system. The 5min is more erratic but once you get the hang of it you can pick up a very large number of pips. I usually wait to go in on the change of the trendline colour but I go in usually on the 3rd bar not the second, I find it more reliable.
  • #7,378
  • Mar 3, 2012 3:49pm Mar 3, 2012 3:49pm
Quoting ohammond
I've found the hourly to be far the best of the lower timeframes to trade this system. The 5min is more erratic but once you get the hang of it you can pick up a very large number of pips. I usually wait to go in on the change of the trendline colour but I go in usually on the 3rd bar not the second, I find it more reliable.
3rd bar extreme ?
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  • #7,379
  • Mar 3, 2012 3:50pm Mar 3, 2012 3:50pm
ok I think I understand why I was getting losses at first. I was trading against the hourly trend. Thanks RJ for the arrow. Now trading 15m in sync with the hourly arrow my first couple of trades are all wins. Now I see what I was doing wrong =).

I think the 15m will be optimal for me.. not to fast and not too slow.. perhaps even 30m would be sufficient.
  • #7,380
  • Mar 3, 2012 3:51pm Mar 3, 2012 3:51pm
Quoting Dyekid217
Like my post above I'm noticing that all of the signals are repainting.. not just the extreme cycle.

Possibly this method is not effective using previous data to backtest. I will forward test this next week with small lots.. I don't really believe in demo testing.. there's no emotion involved.. even following the rules I'm getting very contradicting signals using the strategy tester
You're happy to backtest, but you don't want to demo test because there's no emotion involved??.....hmmmm. Is there emotion involved in backtesting??

I thought your issue was with repainting, not emotion......and if so, then you should demo this system until you get the hang of it. You'll learn much more about the system and how to trade it if you demo the system, than you will with backtesting on a sim. The sim is great for testing other things, but you will learn a lot about the system if you demo it for a week. Draw vertical lines on the charts where you think you you see valid entries/exits and then you can review them to see how they stacked up against what people are telling you, and you can post your questions here *with* the charts which will help us help you, ok?
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