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Symphonie Trader System EA

  • #21
  • Feb 24, 2012 3:31am Feb 24, 2012 3:31am
Another note regarding the previous picture, the indicators repainted so heavily that the entry conditions referring to the previous SELL order almost completely disappeared
  • #22
  • Feb 24, 2012 3:37am Feb 24, 2012 3:37am
Hi Asasa,

First let me congratulate you for your EA, it works very fine so far with my test and I consider symphonie is a very good system and I used it to design my own system....

I was trying to write one by myself, but was still far from achievement.....
I have an idea about late entry problem....manually I use TMA bands and enter only if price is below middle band for Buy and above middle band for sell....it makes a good filter for timing entry....but still in test
So tell me what you think about my idea and are you ready to implement it in your EA.....if not tell me and I'll try to implement it by myself....problem is just I'm a newbie in MT4 programming......so it may take some time

Thanks for your answer

Trade well my friend

PS: indy is in attachment
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 TMA.mq4   8 KB | 556 downloads
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  • #23
  • Feb 24, 2012 4:06am Feb 24, 2012 4:06am
Quoting javajames
Hi Asasa,

First let me congratulate you for your EA, it works very fine so far with my test and I consider symphonie is a very good system and I used it to design my own system....

I was trying to write one by myself, but was still far from achievement.....
I have an idea about late entry problem....manually I use TMA bands and enter only if price is below middle band for Buy and above middle band for sell....it makes a good filter for timing entry....but still in test
So tell me what you think about my idea and are you ready to implement it in...
Hi javajames.
For sure I can add your condition as optional entry filter.
But first I prefer to solve the entry problems I outlined in the previous posts.
I think they are the main reason why all EAs for this system are failing.
The EA applies mechanically the entry conditions which alone lead to orders that a trader would never do in his manual trading.
That's why backtests are meaningless at this point.
I think these bad conditions can be filtered out to a certain degree.
This is the first step to do in the EA before adding additional features.
I am already working for getting the entries to be more reliable, the feedback from the users is really important at this stage.
Did you experience bad entry conditions with the EA?
If so, can you post some charts so that we can somehow figure out how to avoid them?
The EA takes a screenshot of your chart whenever an order is entered, you can find all the screenshots in the folder experts\\files of your MT4 installation and post them here.
  • #24
  • Feb 24, 2012 4:53am Feb 24, 2012 4:53am
Thanks for your kind answer
First I want you to know my timeframe is M30, exclusively for my trading and my tests
Sorry I didn't find any screenshot in expert file ?????
I show you a picture of a trade taken by your EA....it's currently positive but for me it's a bad trade:
1) my extreme was red.....I use comer's extreme which for me is better than v2
2) this entry is too late....should be filtered by TMA

I join you comer's extreme
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: symphonie_1.jpg Size: 206 KB
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 Extreme_Spike.mq4   11 KB | 766 downloads
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  • #25
  • Feb 24, 2012 5:15am Feb 24, 2012 5:15am
Asasa,

I've been using repainting indicators for already quite a long time: zigzag, semafor, extreme.....

I believe the solution for extreme is to look back 3 or 4 previous bars, and when they all agree with the current bar then we have a valid signal....cos the indy will have them repainted

I don't believe waiting for a close is good.....I rather think all the indicators should be tested each minute for instance, to check if we have a valid signal or not....

I also believe comer's MA_Crossover_Lines should be added as a 5th condition for symphonie.....at least that's what I do with my system

Just my 2 cents
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  • #26
  • Feb 24, 2012 6:39am Feb 24, 2012 6:39am
Quoting javajames
Thanks for your kind answer
First I want you to know my timeframe is M30, exclusively for my trading and my tests
Sorry I didn't find any screenshot in expert file ?????
I show you a picture of a trade taken by your EA....it's currently positive but for me it's a bad trade:
1) my extreme was red.....I use comer's extreme which for me is better than v2
2) this entry is too late....should be filtered by TMA

I join you comer's extreme
Javajames, maybe I explained myself wrongly.
In this phase I am checking if the EA follows correctly the entry conditions of the original indicators only, with no further modification of the core strategy.
Additional features and indicators will be added only when and if the base system behaves as expected.
In any case, the screenshots are written to the "files" directory.
If they are not there, it means you are running Windows 7 and you have installed the MT4 client in the "Program files" folder.
Is it your case?
Those screenshots are the only meaningful to me because they are taken at the exact time the order is sent (the indicators will repaint afterwards).
But if you are using different indicators, at the moment I don't need these screenshots.

Quoting javajames
I believe the solution for extreme is to look back 3 or 4 previous bars, and when they all agree with the current bar then we have a valid signal....
cos the indy will have them repainted
With the current version of the EA you can set some external parameters:
- "EvaluationBar": the bar at which the indicators are evaluated, where 0 means currently forming bar, 1 means previous and completed bar, etc.
- "StartExtremeDist" and "MaxExtremeDist": the range of bar interval where to look for an extreme spike
What is missing now is the confirmation with the current bar, I have already planned this (it will be optional) in my to-do list for the EA.

Quoting javajames
I don't believe waiting for a close is good.....I rather think all the indicators should be tested each minute for instance, to check if we have a valid signal or not....
I have already implemented this feature (as an option), you will find it in the next release of the EA.
  • #27
  • Feb 24, 2012 6:50am Feb 24, 2012 6:50am
Quoting asasa
If they are not there, it means you are running Windows 7 and you have installed the MT4 client in the "Program files" folder.
Is it your case?
Those screenshots are the only meaningful to me because they are taken at the exact time the order is sent (the indicators will repaint afterwards).
But if you are using different indicators, at the moment I don't need these screenshots.
I do understand you want to test your EA with the original symphonie....very clear for me
yes I'm running W7 and my MT4 is in the program files folder....and I'm willing to help.....
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  • #28
  • Feb 24, 2012 7:20am Feb 24, 2012 7:20am
Quoting javajames
yes I'm running W7 and my MT4 is in the program files folder....and I'm willing to help.....
The problem is with the UAC feature of your OS.
For security issues, an application is not allowed to directly write in the "Program files" folder.
It's always a bad idea to install the MT4 client in that folder.
But if you move to that folder with the File Explorer, you should see a button appear "Compatibility files", by clicking it you should be redirected to another folder outside "Program files" where Windows 7 has stored the files.
  • #29
  • Feb 24, 2012 8:16am Feb 24, 2012 8:16am
Here are two other examples of entries due two inverse spike disappearance.
A manual trader would never take those entries.
I'm going to add the option to skip entries in those cases.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: SYM_USDJPY_5_OpenLong_1330095862.gif Size: 32 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: SYM_NZDUSD_5_OpenShort_1330095902.gif Size: 31 KB
  • #30
  • Feb 24, 2012 8:53am Feb 24, 2012 8:53am
Quoting asasa
It's always a bad idea to install the MT4 client in that folder.
WHY ????????
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  • #31
  • Feb 24, 2012 9:07am Feb 24, 2012 9:07am
Quoting javajames
WHY ????????
Because the Metatrader client writes lots of files in its installation folder (e.g. logs, compiled files, downloaded experts, etc.)
You'll never know what strange behaviors you can get.
There are several posts on these forums reporting problems related to this fact.
  • #32
  • Feb 24, 2012 9:22am Feb 24, 2012 9:22am
Is your screenshot a .gif extension ?????
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  • #33
  • Feb 24, 2012 9:27am Feb 24, 2012 9:27am
Quoting javajames
Is your screenshot a .gif extension ?????
Sure, e.g. SYM_AUDUSD_5_OpenLong_1330100663.gif
It means:
EANAME_PAIR_TIMEFRAME_DESCRIPTION_TIME.gif
  • #34
  • Feb 24, 2012 9:46am Feb 24, 2012 9:46am
I found them
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: SYM_GBPUSD_30_OpenLong_1330074001.gif Size: 30 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: SYM_GBPUSD_30_OpenLong_1330090218.gif Size: 30 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: SYM_XAUUSD_30_OpenShort_1330088401.gif Size: 34 KB
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  • #35
  • Feb 24, 2012 9:52am Feb 24, 2012 9:52am
Quoting javajames
I found them
Ok.
As I told you, they make sense only if you have on the chart the same parameters and indicator versions as the EA.
  • #36
  • Feb 24, 2012 10:04am Feb 24, 2012 10:04am
OK let's see next week....maybe with the next version....
Have a nice week-end
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  • #37
  • Feb 27, 2012 2:03am Feb 27, 2012 2:03am
Another tricky situation, start of week gaps lead to entry orders in the direction of the gap (e.g. long entry with up gap). A manual trader wouldn't do this. I will add an option to skip new orders during the first hours of the week.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: SYM_AUDUSD_5_OpenLong_1330301192.gif Size: 30 KB
  • #38
  • Feb 27, 2012 2:47am Feb 27, 2012 2:47am
Hi guys,

Thanks for trying this. I also made EA for Symphonie months ago and got almost same problems, mostly due to repainting. Backtests were negative (i don't trust backtests anyway).

If I can help you, just ask.

What I can say for now, always confirm an entry with a higher timeframe (signale), this will lower pullback problems. I also strongly suggest using a trend MA to always stay in the current trend (I used MA200 on h1 for m5 trigger).

Triggers should be based on m1 stochs (OB/OS/Cross) for open and m5 stoch cross for exits.

The biggest problem with a Symphonie EA is ranging/choppy markets time. Time to trade are london open/close.

All these confirmations are mt4 built-int indicators and shouldn't overload cpu usage.

Wish you luck with coding and will follow that thread.

cheers,
Lio
#### Follow me at @LioH_ on Twitter ... ####
  • #39
  • Edited 4:14am Feb 27, 2012 3:26am | Edited 4:14am
Hi guys,

Ihdt I saw your work on Eval's thread and appreciated a lot....so welcome to help, if needed
Asasa I did some backtesting along the weekend, but as Ihdt said I'm not very comfortable with it because of repainting..although this test was positive and all negative trades could be filtered with TMA, as I already told you
I still have much to learn in programming, but tell me if you want I help you with your testing...
Btw I also looked at your code and woooh was very impressed, best code I never saw on FF, especially errors handling quite amazing....but I also regret you don't use user functions enough imho
Wait for your wishes
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  • #40
  • Feb 27, 2012 5:24am Feb 27, 2012 5:24am
Quoting lhDT
Hi guys,

Thanks for trying this. I also made EA for Symphonie months ago and got almost same problems, mostly due to repainting. Backtests were negative (i don't trust backtests anyway).

If I can help you, just ask.

What I can say for now, always confirm an entry with a higher timeframe (signale), this will lower pullback problems. I also strongly suggest using a trend MA to always stay in the current trend (I used MA200 on h1 for m5 trigger).

Triggers should be based on m1 stochs (OB/OS/Cross) for open and m5 stoch cross for exits.

The biggest...
Hi lhDT, thanks for your suggestions.
For the moment I want to stick to the base rules of the system, because it's clear to me that there are several tricky situations where a manual trader wouldn't enter but the automated EA does.
I am still not sure if this system can be successfully automated, but I think no one EA for this system is going to be successful without first managing these situations.
In principle, even if the indicators repaint, an EA should be able to reproduce what a trader does in real time with the same set of indicators.
And we know there are a couple of traders successfully using this system (but trader experience and market knowledge could be the main reason for their success).
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