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  • #591,701
  • Feb 4, 2012 6:10pm Feb 4, 2012 6:10pm
Quoting Tyoon

ah there we go. Yeah I was wrong, you can have a shit WL with good RR but IMO it's better to determine an edge with good WL and good RR.

BTW, is your RR synonymous with PL?
Yeah , of course -- but it might be harder to get hold of that edge the game is tough enough , I'm not going to be too choosy

not sure what you mean? Is my Risk/Reward synonymous with my Profit/Loss?
  • #591,702
  • Feb 4, 2012 6:12pm Feb 4, 2012 6:12pm
Quoting Tyoon
They are similar but not the same.



ah there we go. Yeah I was wrong, you can have a shit WL with good RR but IMO it's better to determine an edge with good WL and good RR.

BTW, is your RR synonymous with PL?
Apart from being academic , I assume that all understand W/L or R:R or P/L. No need to flog it further. Chazzle is correct
  • #591,703
  • Feb 4, 2012 6:22pm Feb 4, 2012 6:22pm
Quoting chazzle
Yeah , of course -- but it might be harder to get hold of that edge

not sure what you mean? Is my Risk/Reward synonymous with my Profit/Loss?
There are a few traders that go beyond a 80:20 WL and 3:1 RR on this forum and they are not BS commercial fuckers. They trade live and only use PA to make trades.

Surely, Risk (% of your account your willing to loose) in ratio to the amount you desire to gain (reward) is the same as profit (the amount you desire to gain) in ratio to the amount you are willing to loose (% of your account you are willing to risk).

  • #591,704
  • Feb 4, 2012 6:32pm Feb 4, 2012 6:32pm
Quoting Tyoon
There are a few traders that go beyond a 80:20 WL and 3:1 RR on this forum and they are not BS commercial fuckers. They trade live and only use PA to make trades.

Surely, Risk (% of your account your willing to loose) in ratio to the amount you desire to gain (reward) is the same as profit (the amount you desire to gain) in ratio to the amount you are willing to loose (% of your account you are willing to risk).

RR is the plan , PL is the reality --- no , seriously , like I said before - I'll use your example this time

RR 3/1
WL 8/2
PL 12/1 ( which done consistently would put you in the very top bracket of traders I should imagine )
  • #591,705
  • Feb 4, 2012 6:36pm Feb 4, 2012 6:36pm
the main thing is not how much you win or lose , but how much you don't lose lol

take the p/l 12/1 of some of your fellow traders on FF -- if you could rely on that consistency , then with compounding it's not hard to see how you could become seriously rich very quickly ....


just going out for a smoke , bb soon
  • #591,706
  • Feb 4, 2012 6:37pm Feb 4, 2012 6:37pm
Quoting chazzle
RR is the plan , PL is the reality --- no , seriously , like I said before - I'll use your example this time

RR 3/1
WL 8/2
PL 12/1 ( which done consistently would put you in the very top bracket of traders I should imagine )
Those with this kinda of metric of RR 3/1 and W/L 8/2 should be the few star bests in the world! That should be money printing at its best LOL
  • #591,707
  • Feb 4, 2012 6:41pm Feb 4, 2012 6:41pm
Quoting chazzle
OK then , so all I am saying is that it is possible to have an edge with a win loss ratio which is negative i.e., less than 50:50 -- example :

Reward/Risk = 5/1
Wins/Losses = 3/5
Profit/Loss = 3/1

and that my friend is an edge
yes it's possible but you not going to have more than 5 or 6 (mostly 2 or 3) trade per month ,

wait for double bottom (daily/weekly) or double top (daily/weekly) at least 100 pip away from daily open it can give very good R:R
Mohan
  • #591,708
  • Feb 4, 2012 6:43pm Feb 4, 2012 6:43pm
Quoting chazzle
RR is the plan , PL is the reality --- no , seriously , like I said before - I'll use your example this time

RR 3/1
WL 8/2
PL 12/1 ( which done consistently would put you in the very top bracket of traders I should imagine )
Yes, RR is the plan, you have you measure it before you enter a trade (I am going to risk % to make %). WL is the statistical data of your trading performance during your trading career. While you are trading you keep track of your WL. If your WL stays at a consistent 80:20 (for example) and your RR is in proportion then there is nothing that will stop you from being profitable.

The whole point of being a trader is to progress your WL and RR with whatever method you use, be it using indie, tech or fundie.

Quoting chazzle
just going out for a smoke , bb soon
I could really do with one right now. In a bit mate.
  • #591,709
  • Feb 4, 2012 6:58pm Feb 4, 2012 6:58pm
Quoting mohan76
yes it's possible but you not going to have more than 5 or 6 (mostly 2 or 3) trade per month ,
not true , no absolutes -- say EU for example we risk 10pips for 50 and win 3 out of 8 , thats only 100 pips net gain for the 8 trades -- just above 12 pips per trade -- just 60 pips for the 5 a month -- now look at how EU moves , how much it moves per day , I would say it's within reach to get more trades per month than that
  • #591,710
  • Feb 4, 2012 7:00pm Feb 4, 2012 7:00pm
Quoting gametheory
Those with this kinda of metric of RR 3/1 and W/L 8/2 should be the few star bests in the world! That should be money printing at its best LOL
indeed - make friends with them
  • #591,711
  • Feb 4, 2012 7:08pm Feb 4, 2012 7:08pm
Quoting chazzle
indeed - make friends with them
Check KennyZ's thread. Don't know what his WL is now but it was 80:20 and a lot of his scalps turn into swings which increases his RR in his favour. Also putting most trades a BE when possible. When you look at his charts knowing he uses multiple standard lots you realize how well he is doing for trading for only a year.
  • #591,712
  • Feb 4, 2012 7:11pm Feb 4, 2012 7:11pm
Quoting chazzle
not true , no absolutes -- say EU for example we risk 10pips for 50 and win 3 out of 8 , thats only 100 pips net gain for the 8 trades -- just above 12 pips per trade -- just 60 pips for the 5 a month -- now look at how EU moves , how much it moves per day , I would say it's within reach to get more trades per month than that
10 pip s/l need perfect top and bottom pick , if a trader good at that he will have over 90% winning rate .
Mohan
  • #591,713
  • Feb 4, 2012 7:16pm Feb 4, 2012 7:16pm
Quoting Tyoon

Well my aim is 80:20 W/L with at least 1:3 RR.
hey man,

sorry im a bit sceptic, how would u like to get such results?

because with such results(and also with a lot weaker) u would get hedge fund spot and get paid like 1mio usd/year...

real professional traders i know with HF background trading intraday FX/commodity futures some of them have consistently sth like 55/60% with 1:1 RR or like 40% with 1:2

then u must be some hidden talent or what...
  • #591,714
  • Feb 4, 2012 7:19pm Feb 4, 2012 7:19pm
Quoting Tyoon
Check KennyZ's thread.
I've seen it , I have to agree he looks pretty shit-hot
  • #591,715
  • Feb 4, 2012 7:21pm Feb 4, 2012 7:21pm
Quoting mohan76
10 pip s/l need perfect top and bottom pick , if a trader good at that he will have over 90% winning rate .
are you serious ? we have just spent about a million posts talking about RR , WL , PL - don't make me come and hit you with a stick
  • #591,716
  • Feb 4, 2012 7:22pm Feb 4, 2012 7:22pm
Quoting katrooo
hey man,

sorry im a bit sceptic, how would u like to get such results?

because with such results(and also with a lot weaker) u would get hedge fund spot and get paid like 1mio usd/year...

real professional traders i know with HF background trading intraday FX/commodity futures some of them have consistently sth like 55/60% with 1:1 RR or like 40% with 1:2

then u must be some hidden talent or what...
No hidden talent, just lots of fucking hard work in the right direction. BTW I was using 80:20 as an aspirational example. I am not at 80:20 yet (that is my aim). The reason it is an aspiration is because I know it is possible.

This trader is a great example (my quote below). I feel bad about preaching his name about... I really shouldn't because he is a great guy, but I believe if you want to trade the charts you have to learn to read them like Ken does.

Quoting Tyoon
Check KennyZ's thread. Don't know what his WL is now but it was 80:20 and a lot of his scalps turn into swings which increases his RR in his favour. Also putting most trades a BE when possible. When you look at his charts knowing he uses multiple standard lots you realize how well he is doing for trading for only a year.
  • #591,717
  • Feb 4, 2012 7:28pm Feb 4, 2012 7:28pm
Quoting chazzle
are you serious ? we have just spent about a million posts talking about RR , WL , PL - don't make me come and hit you with a stick
Mohan
  • #591,718
  • Feb 4, 2012 7:30pm Feb 4, 2012 7:30pm
Quoting mohan76


that's it I'm going to bed -- see you all later
  • #591,719
  • Feb 4, 2012 7:31pm Feb 4, 2012 7:31pm
Quoting Tyoon
No hidden talent, just lots of fucking hard work in the right direction. BTW I was using 80:20 as an aspirational example. I am not at 80:20 yet (that is my aim). The reason it is an aspiration is because I know it is possible.

This trader is a great example (my quote below). I feel bad about preaching his name about... I really shouldn't because he is a great guy, but I believe if you want to trade the charts you have to learn to read them like Ken does.
yep no problem,

didnt meant to be sound like impossible thing, and higher our targets and dreams far away we can get

as one very good guy once told me : in the market u never know

anyway i will check the thread of this guy u re reffering to, maybe i can learn sth new

and u re right, its quite fucking hard work

going to sleep now guys, 2:30 am here so wish u good night and good start of the week
  • #591,720
  • Feb 4, 2012 7:37pm Feb 4, 2012 7:37pm
Quoting chazzle
I've seen it , I have to agree he looks pretty shit-hot
Looked at the thread..charts look good but didnt see simple calls before the fact. If you follow @leopardtrader on twitter, they are quite good too but with simple call of entry, stop and tgt before or at the time.
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