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CHOROS System

  • #7,001
  • Dec 21, 2011 10:19pm Dec 21, 2011 10:19pm
Quoting kk007
The setup trades against a perfect M15 pinbar and a reaction off H1.35/50.
If it is a good setup, perhaps I am too stupid.
Most importantly, if you think M15.35/50 is not flat at the moment of triggering, I have no further comment.
Hey kk, that setup was H1 not 15M. That setup IMO is pretty reliable so if 15M is flat as a model's ass I can care less. I agree choros needs a lot of discretion and that takes time to learn. Try a more mechanical system. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat.
Riding the order flow
  • #7,002
  • Edited 10:55pm Dec 21, 2011 10:42pm | Edited 10:55pm
Quoting Binyamin
Hey kk, that setup was H1 not 15M. That setup IMO is pretty reliable so if 15M is flat as a model's ass I can care less. I agree choros needs a lot of discretion and that takes time to learn. Try a more mechanical system. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat.
Right, he mentioned 2 setups, the first is H1 and the second is M15.

Both setups occured when M15.35/50 was flat, the first is not very bad and the second setup had more problems.

kostas1 has repeated many times: Flat M15.35/50 = No Trade. I don't know when not to follow this.

Honestly, if the setups turned out to be losers, will you view them in the same manner? Hope you can go through the learning process to gain the discretion ability required.
.
  • #7,003
  • Dec 21, 2011 10:59pm Dec 21, 2011 10:59pm
Quoting kk007
Right, he mentioned 2 setups, the first is H1 and the second is M15.

Both setups occured when M15.35/50 was flat, the first is not very bad and the second setup had more problems.

kostas1 has repeated many times: Flat M15.35/50 = No Trade. I don't know when not to follow this.

Honestly, if the setups turned out to be losers, will you view them in the same manner? Hope you can go through the learning process to gain the discretion ability required.
.
Concerning the H1 setup, I have been making very good pips with that for a few months now. I don't want to comment on the 15m setup, it is out of my element. My discretion ability is setup specific because I master and run test on 1 setup at the time. Some genius traders can probably master every setup at the same time once he acquire those X-men discretionary abilities, I can't.
Riding the order flow
  • #7,004
  • Edited 11:20pm Dec 21, 2011 11:00pm | Edited 11:20pm
Quoting Binyamin
Concerning the H1 setup, I have been making very good pips with that for a few months now. I don't want to comment on the 15m setup, it is out of my element. My discretion ability is setup specific because I master 1 setup at the time. Some genius traders can probably master every setup at the same time once he acquire those X-men discretionary abilities, I can't.
Ok, you commented mainly on the H1, and I mainly on the M15. End of story!

P.S. What you have said is in fact a very good attitude.
  • #7,005
  • Edited 11:44pm Dec 21, 2011 11:33pm | Edited 11:44pm
Quoting Binyamin
Concerning the H1 setup, I have been making very good pips with that for a few months now. I don't want to comment on the 15m setup, it is out of my element. My discretion ability is setup specific because I master and run test on 1 setup at the time. Some genius traders can probably master every setup at the same time once he acquire those X-men discretionary abilities, I can't.
Ok. Now I read the H1 setup. Would you have traded it if the downward momentum is that strong, if so where would your trigger? Or would you have finally skipped it?

Honestly, I can't see how good this H1 setup is, because of the strong downward momentum (100 pip dropped in the last H1 bar).
  • #7,006
  • Dec 22, 2011 5:12am Dec 22, 2011 5:12am
Quoting kk007
The setup trades against a perfect M15 pinbar and a reaction off H1.35/50.
If it is a good setup, perhaps I am too stupid.
Most importantly, if you think M15.35/50 is not flat at the moment of triggering, I have no further comment.
I woke up this morning and saw all this. KK I did not mean to start an argument! I'm really sorry if this happened. Everything I write in these threads is for two reasons: 1) to help me figure out trading for myself, and 2) to try to help others here since I have been helped so much.

I just wanted to point out the reasons I thought they were good setups. It's ok if anyone disagrees with me, too. You are 100% correct to say 35/50 flat = no trade. I just interpreted the chart differently, that's all.

I am just as discouraged as you are my friend. I have not made any money in forex yet. I've blown 2 accounts and I'm working on blowing my third. I'll tell you right now this is the toughest thing I've ever tried to learn to do.

But I have read a lot about what traders go through before they finally begin to profit. So I know that the most important thing for me right now, besides studying and practicing, is to maintain a positive attitude and not give up. That's the phase I'm in as a learning trader. And it's very hard to do.

Something I have done is to study a bunch of different systems. I still read different methods all the time. People might say I'm a typical flaky noob and I'll be part of the 95% because of this. But I know it's part of my learning process. I'm absorbing knowledge, learning all the time. It's given me insight as to why Choros works, which is helping me to "see" setups, like Clay teaches.

I am coming back to Choros as my primary method because it makes the most sense to me, based on everything I've learned about forex. In fact, when I am able to someday go full time trading, I will never stop studying all kinds of forex strategies and opinions.

Maybe that would help you, to check out other systems. It might give you good background and help you see setups better.

Stick with it! Don't give up! We are all here in this group to help and encourage each other. I hope this helps you. God bless and prosper you, my friend!
Luck occurs when preparation meets with opportunity.
  • #7,007
  • Dec 22, 2011 5:21am Dec 22, 2011 5:21am
Quoting bigtent
Enjoy!

Live H4 Scoop trade

Follow up trade
BigT, just wanted to thank you for posting Clay's videos. I can't get to the chat room every day and I don't want to miss any. Do you plan to always post them here, or will Clay post them somewhere else?
Luck occurs when preparation meets with opportunity.
  • #7,008
  • Dec 22, 2011 6:49am Dec 22, 2011 6:49am
Don't worry. I don't have much emotion with these posts. I've just tried to reply objectively - not positively or negatively. I just personally don't think those are good setups to me, even through they turned out to be winners, and reply accordingly, and I am not 100% sure if I am right or wrong.

Quoting AlienFrog
I woke up this morning and saw all this. KK I did not mean to start an argument! I'm really sorry if this happened. Everything I write in these threads is for two reasons: 1) to help me figure out trading for myself, and 2) to try to help others here since I have been helped so much.

I just wanted to point out the reasons I thought they were good setups. It's ok if anyone disagrees with me, too. You are 100% correct to say 35/50 flat = no trade. I just interpreted the chart differently, that's all.

I am just as discouraged as you are my friend....
  • #7,009
  • Edited 5:13pm Dec 22, 2011 3:27pm | Edited 5:13pm
Kostas and Clay made a great job documenting everything and helping all of us with this outstanding system. There is no need to say more about it, everything is written on the manuals and on this thread.

To anyone that is having trouble with it I would refer to the simple but powerful words that Kostas said to me when I was discouraged. Admiring one of his amazing trades I placed my first post on Forex Factory:

Quoting kostas1
Quoting Haydel
kostas1, that trade was amazing. I would really like to learn to dance with the market that way.
You will. Stay focused and don't give up.
I’m truly making around 10% weekly, consistently for months, sometimes less, sometimes more.

Right now I am trading H1 10ema and H4 10ema touches only and that is all I need.

This week was very tricky for trading, but I manage to make 11.7% account growth. I took 7 trades this week, 6 winners, 1 loser and I’m done for the week.

Weeks like this would have never been possible without all the comments and documentation that Kostas and Clay made about this system.

So, stay focused and don't give up, you will learn how to dance with the market.

Please take a look at the attached images to see the trades I made this week.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
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  • #7,010
  • Dec 22, 2011 4:45pm Dec 22, 2011 4:45pm
Quoting Haydel
Kostas and Clay made a great job documenting everything and helping all of us with this outstanding system. There is no need to say more about it, everything is written on the manuals and on this thread.

To anyone that is having trouble with it I would refer to the simple but powerful words that Kostas said to me when I was discouraged and admired by an amazing Kostas trade I placed my first post on Forex Factory:



I’m truly making around 10% weekly, consistently for months, sometimes less, sometimes more.

Right now I am trading...
I knew you were going to succeed in this my friend. You seemed determined and focused on learning. It was only a matter of time.
Newbies, Haydel's focus on H1 and H4 10 is a great way to start dancing. Learn only this and become an expert, don't try to take every kind of CHOROS trade.
  • #7,011
  • Edited 6:35pm Dec 22, 2011 5:59pm | Edited 6:35pm
Hi Haydel,

The setups you taken are usually quite good. May I ask you are you trading 20-30 pairs? And are you trading only the first 3-5 hours of US session?

I find that good setup for one particular setup type is so few that if one trade only GU and EU, he may end up having no trade in 1 week. I am not the kind X-men finding unlimited good Choros setups every time open the chart.

cheers,
kk007


Quoting Haydel
Kostas and Clay made a great job documenting everything and helping all of us with this outstanding system. There is no need to say more about it, everything is written on the manuals and on this thread.

To anyone that is having trouble with it I would refer to the simple but powerful words that Kostas said to me when I was discouraged. Admiring one of his amazing trades I placed my first post on Forex Factory:



I’m truly making around 10% weekly, consistently for months, sometimes less, sometimes more.

Right now I am trading H1...
  • #7,012
  • Dec 22, 2011 7:04pm Dec 22, 2011 7:04pm
Quoting kk007
Hi Haydel,

The setups you taken are usually quite good. May I ask you are you trading 20-30 pairs? And are you trading only the first 3-5 hours of US session?

I find that good setup for one particular setup type is so few that if one trade only GU and EU, he may end up having no trade in 1 week. I am not the kind X-men finding unlimited good Choros setups every time open the chart.

cheers,
kk007
Hi K,

Please do come to the chat room and you'll find out more. Many of us miss you.

Since H's done for the week I can tell you what I know about his trading. I read all his posts in both threads, and have been trading with him this week. No he doesn't scan all 28 pairs (from the 8 currencies) blindly. For example he usually avoids JPY pairs unless it's a very good setup. His favorite seems to be USDCAD and EURCAD for the past few weeks during which he traded fewer than 10 pairs AFAIK. He usually starts from an hour prior to US open to about US close but he did make calls after US close and made trades (he used to trade overnight with smaller position). He inspired Binyamin who in turn inspired me.

Best regards,

screen
  • #7,013
  • Dec 22, 2011 7:48pm Dec 22, 2011 7:48pm
Hi Scr,

It is the time of the year which is the best to take a break from real-time interaction. Look forward to see you all again after Christmas/New Year.

Haydel is the only one here:
- I believe he is gaining consistent weekly profit
- I understand clearly why and how he enter a trade
- Use the same single method (1 Choros setup type) consistently
- Present his charts clearly

Other consistency-claimed use a variety of methods or some hybrid methods which I can't make sense of.

There is also one guy who keep reporting massive success here over the past 1/2 year, but keep changing methods once a few weeks. I just can't believe he has gained consistency with Choros.

So yes, I think Haydel is one inspiriation here. The thing is Haydel is scanning 28 pairs, as you said. This is not the way I may want to do.

cheers,

kk007

Quoting screenname
Hi K,

Please do come to the chat room and you'll find out more. Many of us miss you.

Since H's done for the week I can tell you what I know about his trading. I read all his posts in both threads, and have been trading with him this week. No he doesn't scan all 28 pairs (from the 8 currencies) blindly. For example he usually avoids JPY pairs unless it's a very good setup. His favorite seems to be USDCAD and EURCAD for the past few weeks during which he traded fewer than 10 pairs AFAIK. He usually starts from an hour prior to US open to about...
  • #7,014
  • Edited 10:26pm Dec 22, 2011 9:50pm | Edited 10:26pm
Quoting kk007
Ok. Now I read the H1 setup. Would you have traded it if the downward momentum is that strong, if so where would your trigger? Or would you have finally skipped it?

Honestly, I can't see how good this H1 setup is, because of the strong downward momentum (100 pip dropped in the last H1 bar).
You are right, HTF or H1 setups are bad because the momentum in the LTF is always against the entry and it logically shouldn't work, they are just bad setups and bad trading. So they can never work in the long run because of conflicting reasons. I have just been lucky this few months on my live account, even in backtest.

Anyway next year I am stepping up my risk pertrade to 1% for HTF and 0.5% for M5. Target perweek will be raised to 5% from 2.5%, for Choros. I think 1% is the edge of my comfort zone already. I mean that is IT. I never risk more than 0.75% even in my other system but I have a goal within the 1st 6 months I hope to attain to prepare for events in 2012. My last 2 choros trade this year was with 1% risk, both winners on the same day and I was feeling somewhat comfortable with that risk. So hopefully HTF setups into the next year will still be consistent. =)
Riding the order flow
  • #7,015
  • Dec 23, 2011 9:59am Dec 23, 2011 9:59am
I think Haydel has made an important contribution here. His comments in the chat room, together with summary week posts, like the one above, are very helpful.

To summarize for others, I think it's clear that Haydel is only focusing on a limited subset of the Choros strategies. But the key point is that they are easy to recognize and generally highly reliable. Using his approach, it is quite easy for me to scan through a number of pairs, and quickly look to see if I have the H1 10 over laying the M15 30/50 in a TIGHT configuration with a clear trend (up or down). The last 2 points are key, and it makes it easy to scan through a number of different pairs. If you do have the right set up of the MA's then all you have to do is wait for the price to touch it. Haydel has become quite good at seeing these set ups from a ways away, and many of his comments in the chat room focus on anticipating these types of trades. And many times they happen.

I think it's useful to compare Haydel's approach to Kostas, who is also a total master. For the most part, it seems that Kostas is happy to monitor one or two pairs (e.g., EU and GU). Using the full range of Choros strategies and his expertise of interpreting PA on the M5, he has amazed us all with his capability to extract pips from all kinds of markets at all times of day.

That is, using a wide range of tools (and expertise) Kostas is quite capable of cruising along looking at only one or two pairs and doing quite well. Haydel's strategy is quite different because for the most part, he is focusing on only one (or a couple) of tools, and his approach is to look through a range of pairs to see where that tool might apply. It's different from Kostas, but it also is very successful.

And so thanks again Haydel.

And everyone have a great Holiday!!!

All the best

cmeade2

Quoting kostas1
I knew you were going to succeed in this my friend. You seemed determined and focused on learning. It was only a matter of time.
Newbies, Haydel's focus on H1 and H4 10 is a great way to start dancing. Learn only this and become an expert, don't try to take every kind of CHOROS trade.
  • #7,016
  • Dec 23, 2011 10:42am Dec 23, 2011 10:42am
I like trading multiple pairs with HTF too. I am for Haydel's style. In fact if it weren't for him I might have left choros a while ago.

To me the benefits of trading multiple pairs on HTF:

1) Helps a great deal with my learning curve by giving me many scenarios
2) Able to give me the big picture which I naturally seek.
3) Gives me evidence & assurance that my system is robust with many pairs
4) Enable me to see more probable setups, hence I can trade with lower risk % while still achieving my weekly goal and I can afford to be picky.
5) Ability to see trades way b4 they occur hence I am relaxed. =)
Riding the order flow
  • #7,017
  • Dec 23, 2011 11:08am Dec 23, 2011 11:08am
H1 35/50, H4 10EMA, DP, MP.

At the same time---> M5 12EMA cross and rejection pin.

Here is a setup I spot. I just watch it come and then....... go...... without taking it..... I think I won't look at my charts anymore until next year, watching it is depressing......

Next year I won't restrict my trading with choros in late december anymore I have miss too many setups already!!!
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
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Riding the order flow
  • #7,018
  • Dec 23, 2011 11:24am Dec 23, 2011 11:24am
Quoting Binyamin
H1 35/50, H4 10EMA, DP, MP.

At the same time---> M5 12EMA cross and rejection pin.

Here is a setup I spot. I just watch it come and then....... go...... without taking it..... I think I won't look at my charts anymore until next year, watching it is depressing......

Next year I won't restrict my trading with choros in late december anymore I have miss too many setups already!!!
Bin,

GBPNZD is one of the worst pairs in terms of spread on various brokers where I have accounts, including OANDA which is 10 pips currently. But I agree with you that there are quite some excellent setups in the past few weeks.

EDIT: just saw your spread was 5 pips. Is that not OANDA?
  • #7,019
  • Dec 23, 2011 11:30am Dec 23, 2011 11:30am
Quoting screenname
Bin,

GBPNZD is one of the worst pairs in terms of spread on various brokers where I have accounts, including OANDA which is 10 pips currently. But I agree with you that there are quite some excellent setups in the past few weeks.

EDIT: just saw your spread was 5 pips. Is that not OANDA?

Good point there about spread, recently I have learned something from clay. Spread means nothing if it is correlated with the pair's volatility. In the case of GBPNZD my spread is 9 but it is currently the most volatile pair in Forex. Check it out on oanda fxlab. I would have entered with a 30 pip SL and exit perhaps around RN for 20 pips for 1st Tp and 35-50 pips at the H4 PPA for TP2. Hypothetically.
Riding the order flow
  • #7,020
  • Dec 23, 2011 11:32am Dec 23, 2011 11:32am
Quoting Binyamin
H1 35/50, H4 10EMA, DP, MP.

At the same time---> M5 12EMA cross and rejection pin.

Here is a setup I spot. I just watch it come and then....... go...... without taking it..... I think I won't look at my charts anymore until next year, watching it is depressing......

Next year I won't restrict my trading with choros in late december anymore I have miss too many setups already!!!
Bin, at least you are not providing liquidity to the market!
Luck occurs when preparation meets with opportunity.
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