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  • #572,861
  • Dec 9, 2011 4:09pm Dec 9, 2011 4:09pm
Quoting Yuchen
Yuchen wanted to become a batman, Tom wanted to become a spiderman and fatpanda wanted to become a superman. One day...
Man I like you. That was a nice one story.

T
"I know one thing, that I know nothing." Sokrates
  • #572,862
  • Dec 9, 2011 4:17pm Dec 9, 2011 4:17pm
Quoting Tom_D_Trader
Hey, I am having fun here, no stress. And besides, what he wrote was total BS. Ofc you can scalp in long term if you are good enough. And I dont want incompetent people try to help newcomers, coz they will mislead them. Scalping is dangerous and hard bussiness for sure and it is not for beginners. But it is not impossible and Fusion prooved his incompetence right in the next post. He got angry simply because I pointed out his incompetence. Btw, dinner was great, I had steak.

T
hmm , me , angry, lol

you claim scalp works on long term then you say you are swing trader

interesting argument . you really convinced me .

and you convinced me much more when you said that its very hard and only experienced traders does it .


so the pros and gurus scalp the market !
really very interesting and convincing speech .

when you are successful or any proven live account results are published from you or any one else who claims he is successful scalping the market 10 pips the last 2-3 years then I will believe .

it was not proven till this date PERIOD

and just for the sake of junior trading money management math .

assume that the chances are 50/50 for any trade either up or down with coin toss entry .

now assume 2 pip spread
2 pips out of 10 is 20%
so the chances becomes 30% you win 70% you lose
assume 1 pip slippage ( that can easily happen and more ) then chances go much worse 80% lose 20% win

so you have to get an extra edge , more than 80% just to get the equation in your favor .
so if your decisions are 85% correct , then you have a long term success of only 55% ratio !!

I was saving the time for one beginner who is appearently losing the last 6 months trying to scalp .
and giving him advice , you interfered telling him to continue in the same lame losing path and don't listen to me .
I tell him learn analysis and money management and trade properly and stop doing what he were doing .


which advice you believe he should follow ?
specially that you after the Horseshit post can't scalp the market your self !!!!
I SEE YOU !!
  • #572,863
  • Dec 9, 2011 4:23pm Dec 9, 2011 4:23pm
Quoting micho
You gonna watch Real Madrid vs Barcelona?
I think you support Real Madrid because they have Ozil and Kharid.
  • #572,864
  • Dec 9, 2011 4:30pm Dec 9, 2011 4:30pm
Quoting Turveyd
Scalping SL 10 TP 10 required a 13pip move to hit the TP and only 7pip move to reach the SL, based on random entry which is more likely to be hit ??

Yep SL, you need nearly twice the move up as down for the same money, so which gives you a 75% lose rate which is bad odds stacked against you to start with.

I scalped for years, 3000 trades and down $1500 so basically I lose 50cents average per trade, where average spread was likely $2.80, remove the spread and I'd be 3000 * 2.3 = +$6900 without upping the lot sizes ( not 100% sure on the...
that's well said .

and conclusion is easy , why trader should torture him self to get 80%+ success rate ( which is verrry difficult ) and give 20% of his income and hard work to his broker . and be on the edge all the time .

while easily he can trade 100 pips and more if he learned proper trading and only 55% success rate can provide him with constant profit and 1% only of that hard work to the broker !!
I SEE YOU !!
  • #572,865
  • Dec 9, 2011 4:31pm Dec 9, 2011 4:31pm
Quoting dbfusion
hmm , me , angry, lol

you claim scalp works on long term then you say you are swing trader

interesting argument . you really convinced me .

and you convinced me much more when you said that its very hard and only experienced traders does it .


so the pros and gurus scalp the market !
really very interesting and convincing speech .

when you are successful or any proven live account results are published from you or any one else who claims he is successful scalping the market 10 pips the last 2-3 years then I will believe .

it was not proven...
Better fix your math skills, you are doing it wrong.

And on that bombshell - have a nice weekend you guys.
Quant Hedge Fund CEO
  • #572,866
  • Dec 9, 2011 4:35pm Dec 9, 2011 4:35pm
Quoting FXMastermind
Better fix your math skills, you are doing it wrong.

And on that bombshell - have a nice weekend you guys.
thanks for the tip .
fix it please

and have a nice weekend every one .
I SEE YOU !!
  • #572,867
  • Dec 9, 2011 4:40pm Dec 9, 2011 4:40pm
Hah, more fun here. My comments are in italics, since this was such a long post.
Quoting dbfusion
hmm , me , angry, lol
hmm , me , angry, lol
Yes

you claim scalp works on long term then you say you are swing trader
interesting argument . you really convinced me .
and you convinced me much more when you said that its very hard and only experienced traders does it .
I claim scalp trading can work long term if you are good enough, because I know how it works, unlike you.

so the pros and gurus scalp the market !
really very interesting and convincing speech .
I have never said that. Please read my posts again. Putting words in my mouth yet again shows your incompetence, bad anger management and desperation to win debate.

when you are successful or any proven live account results are published from you or any one else who claims he is successful scalping the market 10 pips the last 2-3 years then I will believe .
Why the hell would succesfull trader want to present his results on the internet? Whos dick is bigger is game for kids, if you are succesfull, you dont need to prove it to strangers on the internet.

it was not proven till this date PERIOD
Proven where? On FF thread, dont make me laugh. You dont understand it because you lack of knowledge about scalping. Period.

and just for the sake of junior trading money management math .

assume that the chances are 50/50 for any trade either up or down with coin toss entry .

now assume 2 pip spread
2 pips out of 10 is 20%
so the chances becomes 30% you win 70% you lose
assume 1 pip slippage ( that can easily happen and more ) then chances go much worse 80% lose 20% win
so you have to get an extra edge , more than 80% just to get the equation in your favor .
so if your decisions are 85% correct , then you have a long term success of only 55% ratio !!
For the first, he was talking about 20 pips and not 10, so this kinda messes up your math. For the second, Oanda has 1,2 pips spread. For the third, if you make scalping account you should use broker where you pay commissions and not spread.


I was saving the time for one beginner who is appearently losing the last 6 months trying to scalp .
and giving him advice , you interfered telling him to continue in the same lame losing path and don't listen to me .
I tell him learn analysis and money management and trade properly and stop doing what he were doing .
Yea, your intention was good for sure. But that doesnt change the fact that you are incompetent and you dont understand how scalping works.

which advice you believe he should follow ?
Mine = noones here.

specially that you after the Horseshit post can't scalp the market your self !!!!
I dont need to.

Regards,

Tom
"I know one thing, that I know nothing." Sokrates
  • #572,868
  • Dec 9, 2011 4:55pm Dec 9, 2011 4:55pm
Yo Sauron, I am going to sleep, so you have some time to come up with new worthless post.

And dont be angry and learn how scalping works before you mock it.

T
"I know one thing, that I know nothing." Sokrates
  • #572,869
  • Edited 5:44pm Dec 9, 2011 4:55pm | Edited 5:44pm
Good morning all

Aaron mentioned my way of trading so I would like to say something about it.

I risk 1% per trade, between 16 to 19 pips. I set a TP of about 35 to 38.

So nearly R/R 1 to 2. I am comfortable with that and I do not call that scalping, of course somebody will, but that does not bother me.

Do I wait for my TP to be hit all the time? NO WAY. Good trading is not that mechanical in my view. If I am only 26 pips up and I feel the dance is slowing down, I will take my profit, in my view still good.

Yesterday I made 6% return, not on demo, that is not trading in my view.
Last week I made 9% and 5% per week is my comfortable reach and I think I am getting there.

Now all those numbers mean fuck all, nothing.
Every week I have to fight and sweat for it. At the end of yesterday session I was very very tired, there is not way in my view that you can apply a method and it will work every day in and out.
If somebody tell you that he is making pips every day without effort, that guy is full of shit. His emotions are at play.
After the week that I made 9%, I applied the same method, the following week (monday and tuesday), results were terrible, market did not give a damn about my "holy grail" method.

So I had to stop, look in to what the market was telling me and adapt, in that adaptation I also included 5 more instruments (more work), because I realised that I cannot milk the same cow.

With all that work I am back into business and received further conformations that if I want to continue to be on the top of my game I need to continue to work harder, focus on the right side of the chart, be open minded, nimble, humble and most of all get rid of all the preconceive concepts that my mind/ego is trying to obstruct my way.

Hope it help
mla
"The Heart is the hub of all dances; go there and chill out"
  • #572,870
  • Dec 9, 2011 4:58pm Dec 9, 2011 4:58pm
Quoting Tom_D_Trader
Hah, more fun here. My comments are in italics, since this was such a long post.

hmm , me , angry, lol
Yes

you claim scalp works on long term then you say you are swing trader
interesting argument . you really convinced me .
and you convinced me much more when you said that its very hard and only experienced traders does it .
I claim scalp trading can work long term if you are good enough, because I know how it works, unlike you.

so the pros and gurus scalp the market !
really very interesting and convincing speech...

interesting , so the pros and gurus can trade only on certain brokers who have less than 2 pips spread and guarantee no slippage .

and commission instead of pips ! , that's hilarious . and the commission worth how many pips ?

listen to your self mate .

man you need to search for something called the risk of ruin and read about it .

betting on roulette gives much better odds than scalping 10 or even 30 pips!

if you don't trade it and not successful on scalping it , and not having any physical proof not nescessary by you . but by any one . and I litterally mean it . there is none .

only brokers and their propaganda fake nicknames and marketing team flood the net with such bogus info.




there is no proof of long term scalper who succeeds . its wrong and its not how traders trade .

its called GAMBLING.
get around it with 2:1 risk or even much worse
martingale it

at the end
the house always win !

he lost and tried for 6 months .

all beginners try to do this and all of them lose .

he should STOP .

he should learn properly .

be helpful to others instead of being negative and slaming the one who genuinely was trying to help a newbie .
I SEE YOU !!
  • #572,871
  • Dec 9, 2011 5:03pm Dec 9, 2011 5:03pm
too isn't half bad

Yesterday I made 6% return, not on demo, that is not trading in my view.
Last week I made 9% and 5% per week is my comfortable reach and I think I am getting there.
  • #572,872
  • Edited 5:10pm Dec 9, 2011 5:03pm | Edited 5:10pm
Quoting dbfusion
why trader should torture him self to get 80%+ success rate ( which is verrry difficult ) and give 20% of his income and hard work to his broker . and be on the edge all the time.
reasons? more opportunities, less dependance on market conditions, less influence by fundies => better technical predictability (momentum), less risk per trade, less exposure. going for small targets is something different from being trigger-happy. entries are a patience game and trade management is the key. not for everyone, indeed.

Quoting dbfusion
while easily he can trade 100 pips and more if he learned proper trading and only 55% success rate can provide him with constant profit and 1% only of that hard work to the broker !!
there's no such thing as one single kind of proper trading (imo).. someone mentioned gator before.. another example here or here.. check there trading style.. i dare to doubt they ain't proper traders, lol.
MarginTrader All Time Return: na
  • #572,873
  • Dec 9, 2011 5:52pm Dec 9, 2011 5:52pm
I used to scalp, as I'm a control freak by nature and it felt like I had more control on a M1 chart or S10 ( 10 second ).

But the amount of trades turn up then go no where and reverse to cost you is insane in anything but perfect markets.

Also the amount of SL hit moves I jump on expect it to go lower say and it reverses HARD afterward.

It's useful skills that passed onto my M15 method I thought up in no time at all and works great, exit / stay out wise so not totally wasted but doh!!

I never ran a fixed TP, my setups when they worked generally netted 30 - 40 pips, which made sense generally risking 12.

Day like today, money in the bank, Monday - Wednesday fake starts and none stop losses.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #572,874
  • Dec 9, 2011 5:53pm Dec 9, 2011 5:53pm
Quoting MaryJane
reasons? more opportunities, less dependance on market conditions, less influence by fundies => better technical predictability (momentum), less risk per trade, less exposure. going for small targets is something different from being trigger-happy. entries are a patience game and trade management is the key. not for everyone, indeed.

the ones in Bold are wrong .

but allow me to counter that .

I am up 30% last month and 20% this month .

doing around 30 trades and giving less than 1% of my profit to my broker average 170 pips profit per trade .
collecting over 5000 pips in various currencies and commodities thats including the losing positions , ( usually I target for 300+ pips -and never less than 50)

sleeping tight counting sheep's , my exposure and risk is very calculated .

lets assume 20 pips trader . to make only 3000 pips (average 80 pips daily) that's 150 continuous successful trades . so if scalper wins 80% of the time he needs more than 200 trades to get that target. that's 5 trades daily 4 winners and 1 loser .

risk of any market sudden moves can kill scalper but not swing trader .
he will give away at least 400 pips from the 3000 he made for commission .
I gave only 40.

imagine 10 pip scalper ! , giving maybe 30% of his profit . 1000 pips to his broker! .

every broker wishes that every one scalps ! free money !

technical analysis is same
either 1 minute chart or monthly chart

if some one can technically scalp and sees the market , he should do same on higher TF .
that's much more profit .

and for 80% profit factor that's tremendous skills.

newbies don't have those skills .

Anyone can learn to ride a skateboard. But not anyone can jump the Great Wall of China on a skateboard.

do I see the market ? yes
can I trade 30 pips ? I can .
do I do it ? ofcorse not !!
can I do 10 pips ? no I can't and I don't believe its doable !

I don't like to share my $$$ with some one sitting on his ass . he gets his commission for the service , that's enough

conclusion

less stress , more money , better analysis , calmer trading without any tension , better odds , can trade on any broker with any platform , can never lose to any broker even if he is trading against you . more time for other things to do in life !
I SEE YOU !!
  • #572,875
  • Dec 9, 2011 5:54pm Dec 9, 2011 5:54pm
Quoting MaryJane

there's no such thing as one single kind of proper trading (imo).. someone mentioned gator before.. another example here or here.. check there trading style.. i dare to doubt they ain't proper traders, lol.

I have a repeatable cheat thus far and back testing for 6months or so, I'm definately not what I would class as a proper trader, but it's making money and it's next to zero stress and takes up 15 - 30mins per day.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #572,876
  • Dec 9, 2011 5:56pm Dec 9, 2011 5:56pm
Quoting MaryJane
reasons? more opportunities, less dependance on market conditions, less influence by fundies => better technical predictability (momentum), less risk per trade, less exposure. going for small targets is something different from being trigger-happy. entries are a patience game and trade management is the key. not for everyone, indeed.


there's no such thing as one single kind of proper trading (imo)...
very well said MJ.... successful traders have a wide range of methods. It's what works for the individual that counts, if you have a strategy (or range of strategies) that increases your account size on a regular recurring basis (daily,weekly or monthly) then that's what counts.



trade well

LP
patience is a virtue
  • #572,877
  • Dec 9, 2011 6:00pm Dec 9, 2011 6:00pm
Quoting mla
Good morning all

Aaron mentioned my way of trading so I would like to say something about it.

I risk 1% per trade, between 16 to 19 pips. I set a TP of about 35 to 38.

So nearly R/R 1 to 2. I am comfortable with that and I do not call that scalping, of course somebody will, but that does not bother me.

Do I wait for my TP to be hit all the time? NO WAY. Good trading is not that mechanical in my view. If I am only 26 pips up and I feel the dance is slowing down, I will take my profit, in my view still good.

Yesterday I made 6% return, not on...
CAreful, the market was a different beast, on Thursday and Friday ideally suites for your trading style, it likely wasn't the extra 5 instruments you'll go instrument blind also adds to the work load and makes it more tiring increasing the odds of burning out, more instruments won't make the market move more, getting in sooner on turns is all you can do, but with that comes increased risk of fakes but less risk of jumping on the top.

+6.8% on the week here, but only 4 trades, 1 bad, 1 very good and 2 trades which ended up being barely profitable.

I want 30%
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #572,878
  • Dec 9, 2011 6:05pm Dec 9, 2011 6:05pm
Some of my worst scalping goes like this.


Get in, market tanks 15pips hits SL.
Get back in, 7 above the SL say.
Market tanks -15 SL hit.

Repeat this 10 times, then in a 70 pip move I've lost 15 * 10 = 150pips.


The Ohhhh Feck it's just stopped me at the bottom, back in mindset.

Most of my losses where little trades on EJ, 1am GMT just as asia opens, no stop 1/2 asleep sitting on resistance bla bla bla, broken ohhhhh, drop 80-200 pips in 1min margin call and OUT!! I've done that about 10times.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #572,879
  • Dec 9, 2011 6:08pm Dec 9, 2011 6:08pm
Quoting Yuchen
You gonna watch Real Madrid vs Barcelona?
I think you support Real Madrid because they have Ozil and Kharid.
lol exactly but i have both barca and real in general
When life gives you lemons, make lemonade
  • #572,880
  • Edited Dec 10, 2011 12:54am Dec 9, 2011 6:10pm | Edited Dec 10, 2011 12:54am
Quoting dbfusion
the ones in Bold are wrong .

but allow me to counter that .

I am up 30% last month and 20% this month .

doing around 30 trades and giving less than 1% of my profit to my broker average 170 pips profit per trade .
collecting over 5000 pips in various currencies and commodities thats including the losing positions , ( usually I target for 300+ pips -and never less than 50)

sleeping tight counting sheep's , my exposure and risk is very calculated .

lets assume 20 pips trader . to make only 3000 pips (average 80 pips daily) that's 150...
I agree with you on your math.

What I find difficult in todays market is that the 300 pips is less predictable than the 40 pis target profit.
To get to 300 we need at least two days of trading, at least depending of the instrument, in today market the direction changes mostly every day, so I have to tend more in hoping that the sentiment does not change.

With the 40 pips TP, I do not rely on hope, I trade the dance, the sentiment of that moment, that is why I think I have a better chance.

mla
"The Heart is the hub of all dances; go there and chill out"
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