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Symphonie Trader System

  • #3,021
  • Nov 25, 2011 3:22am Nov 25, 2011 3:22am
..and that's why i struggle hard to follow the rules to the point. i woke up and saw this.. took it as you see, with a 10.6pip stop (sometimes i put the stop just above m15 bar). but there was no extreme spike. hard to follow this rule when the trend is sustained and 'linear', you don't have a valid way to re-enter, unless you follow eval's stop order method with the extreme spike repaint play (i have to evaluate this yet but i think the price level distance between many repaints is too shallow to make it a general rule for reentries).

great trading yelena
closed this one just between s2 and 3250.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: nospike.png Size: 14 KB
MarginTrader All Time Return: na
  • #3,022
  • Nov 25, 2011 3:30am Nov 25, 2011 3:30am
Quoting MaryJane
..and that's why i struggle hard to follow the rules to the point. i woke up and saw this.. took it as you see, with a 10.6pip stop (sometimes i put the stop just above m15 bar). but there was no extreme spike. hard to follow this rule when the trend is sustained and 'linear', you don't have a valid way to re-enter, unless you follow eval's stop order method with the extreme spike repaint play (i have to evaluate this yet but i think the price level distance between many repaints is too shallow to make it a general rule for reentries).

great...
The entry was this morning (my time) just before Asian open......and that is so often the case......Asia sets the trend for the day.....not every day, but (guessing) 75% of the time.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #3,023
  • Nov 25, 2011 3:38am Nov 25, 2011 3:38am
Quoting realjumper
The entry was this morning (my time) just before Asian open......and that is so often the case......Asia sets the trend for the day.....not every day, but (guessing) 75% of the time.
Missed the ride huhu
Pivot Boss in the making~
  • #3,024
  • Nov 25, 2011 3:42am Nov 25, 2011 3:42am
Quoting jurn_e
Missed the ride huhu
Never mind.....the market isn't going anywhere.....there will always be another chance
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #3,025
  • Nov 25, 2011 3:45am Nov 25, 2011 3:45am
Price hit fib extension 127 and pivot S2.

Waiting for M5 buy signal in SEFC.
Pivot Boss in the making~
  • #3,026
  • Nov 25, 2011 4:06am Nov 25, 2011 4:06am
Hi,

Attached PDF for newcomers in this thread.

I have been trading this system for 2 weeks. All i can say is, its not a perfect system but its definitely profitable.

I use indicators and template from post 1.
The only indicator different is , i am using MJ's symphonie trendline indicator.
I trade m5 and m15 EU with this system.
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf SECF.pdf   521 KB | 1,724 downloads
Pivot Boss in the making~
  • #3,027
  • Nov 25, 2011 4:34am Nov 25, 2011 4:34am
Starting next week, how am i gonna trade.

Timeframe: M5 and M15
Pair: EURUSD

Strategy 1:
1. Wait for Extreme Spike
2. Wait for alignment of Trendline, Sentiment and Emotion indicatos
3. Enter
4. Exit on extreme spike/pivots/daily hi-lo

Strategy 2 (Reentry):
1. For example, trendline is red (trend is down)
2. Wait for senti-emo to turn blue
3. When senti-emo turns back to red, trendline is also red
4. Enter sell
5. Exit on extreme spike/pivots/daily hi-lo

Strategy 3 (Stop order entry):
1. For example, if there is an extreme spike bottom
2. You will be expecting a bounce up, or a buy
3. However there is no buy signal, and it starts to appear like a retracement
4. Place a sell stop order at the bottom of the extreme spike
5. Exit on the next extreme spike!

Just sharing~
Pivot Boss in the making~
  • #3,028
  • Nov 25, 2011 4:41am Nov 25, 2011 4:41am
Quoting jurn_e
Attached PDF for newcomers in this thread. I have been trading this system for 2 weeks. All i can say is, its not a perfect system but its definitely profitable.


Quoting realjumper
The entry was this morning (my time) just before Asian open......and that is so often the case......Asia sets the trend for the day.....not every day, but (guessing) 75% of the time.
yes, i see.. i have the last ES at 17:05gmt yesterday. i'm thinking about taking any, even non-extreme spike for valid in these situations (= bye bye 100% mechanics).

there was a long entry in eu signaled just ahead of frankie open.. gave approx 5 pips room to set BE. If not, this trade would be stopped out later with recommended 50 pip stop on M5 tf even before an extreme spike appeared. Two violations in a row, both beneficial, but that doesn't mean anyhing - the long run counts and i won't argue it won't work until i have evidence. There are (imo) too many "glitches" like the long signal today no human trader would bother with, but they are 100% mechanically corect and valid. You need an additional ruleset or at least a way to explain (the robot or the newb) what exactly takes a worthy reason to stay out of a trade.

Quoting realjumper
As Eval just showed us....taking every signal blindly.....one after the other, is profitable. All we have to do is follow the system.....why do we find that so hard to do?
Backtesting this visually on past charts doesn't make sense, i have watched the senti/emo indies giving you the green light in the half of a move then painting few bars before so in hindsight it appears you could capture almost the whole move. So if you backtest visually and count pips, you will record a 30pip trade instead of real 15p, or discard an invisible loser just because in hindsight there was a room to set stop to BE whereas in reality it didn't go enough +pips therefore went finally to stop or unprofitable exit. You won't record trades that painted the senti/emo signal on closed bar, you entered but it turned on you and the signal turned into empty (yellow) space, and i wonder if these unrecorded trades would be winners. The only valid backtest is with a trade simulator.

this is not a negative post!!!!

i don't want to be negative nor positive - just objective. example: repainting in general - i don't mind it, i even like it, it gives great clues and is a big helper if used appropriately! But i can't stand if someone says: 'hey, this and that indicator does repaint on M1 or M5 but it doesn't in higher timeframes'. Of course it repaints in every timeframe, but since it's not so noticeable or it takes some time to watch, the poster runs for an excuse and capitalizes on it. I'm really if confronted with this kind of mentality/thinking. If someone speaks about 100% mechanics and strictly following rules because in hindsight it seems to be so nice.. well, that's more subtle kind of the above mentioned mental divergence example.. both are daydreaming, apparently contra-productive in daytrading.
MarginTrader All Time Return: na
  • #3,029
  • Nov 25, 2011 5:11am Nov 25, 2011 5:11am
Quoting MaryJane


.
MJ,

I did not notice the vouch until now.
Wow, thanks for my 1st Vouch.
Happy feet~

Since i got my 1st vouch.
Gonna share my graph, this live account was started trading on 15/11/2011.
70%+ trades are done using SEFC.
I would say its just normal performance, nothing to shout about.
Still need to trade more of SEFC to really get the feel of it.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 2011-11-25_1912.png Size: 11 KB
Pivot Boss in the making~
  • #3,030
  • Nov 25, 2011 5:20am Nov 25, 2011 5:20am
Quoting MaryJane

there was a long entry in eu signaled just ahead of frankie open.. gave approx 5 pips room to set BE.
Yes.....that's always going to be an issue.....and you will have seen me become frustrated with newbies who keep taking these silly counter (strong) trend trades. That's what will trip up an EA. As you say, no self respecting trader would bother trading those moves, but the EA would.




Quoting MaryJane
Backtesting this visually on past charts doesn't make sense,
No, of course it doesn't. It's not possible to back test when even one of the required indicators (read triggers) repaints. The only way is to either use a simulator or do the 'hard yards' and demo it for 2 or 3 months before taking it live on a small account.

I'm seeing a valid long entry right now, but it's counter to a very strong move but the EA would take the trade. If we bounce off S2 and head lower again, the validity of the long entry would vanish.......and the back test would never see it!!

For these reasons, an EA (in my opinion) is unlikely to be profitable. The more variables there are to a system, the harder it will be to get an EA to perform reliably and profitably. And really, what's the point? I mean, I can only trade Asian and about the first 4 hours of London......and that's it. But I'm doing pretty good here, even when not much happens during Asian.

So I think that to use a mechanical system (like this one), with discretion (sounds silly but you know what I mean!), can be immensely profitable and relatively stress free, so much so that I think I can beat any EA in any timeframe. Having said that, why would I need an EA?

RJ
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #3,031
  • Nov 25, 2011 5:21am Nov 25, 2011 5:21am
Quoting yelena
then EU just fell to 1.3295. your doubts were correct after all! i don't know what price you saw back then but i entered a sell at 1.3371. there was a floating loss of as it went to 1.3409 but did not hit the 50 SL and i have taken out the sell less than 30 mins ago at 1.3295 = 76 pips with the aid of MJ's no-refresh trendline! please see attached picture. i mentioned in my post before this, that nov 24 is a bear then nov25 is range mkt (i can be wrong today....) admitingly, i kinda cheated coz...
exit strategy is simple. you have 4 ways to exit outlined in post#1.
  • #3,032
  • Nov 25, 2011 5:35am Nov 25, 2011 5:35am
Quoting realjumper
The next leg down?........
Almost there
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eu.jpg Size: 49 KB
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #3,033
  • Nov 25, 2011 5:40am Nov 25, 2011 5:40am
Quoting jurn_e
MJ,

I did not notice the vouch until now.
Wow, thanks for my 1st Vouch.
Happy feet~

Since i got my 1st vouch.
Gonna share my graph, this live account was started trading on 15/11/2011.
70%+ trades are done using SEFC.
I would say its just normal performance, nothing to shout about.
Still need to trade more of SEFC to really get the feel of it.

jurn_e,

congratulations! as you follow the symphonie system using ars you will see this account balance begin to grow faster as you now have more reserve that increase your order lot size because of ars. once you perfect trading the symphonie system it now only becomes a question of apply the proper ratios and not become tripped up by the greed/fear factors.

fear and greed will become your greatest enemies when trading using the symphonie system because they are the elements that will begin to make you doubt and you will think you can jump the system or doubt the system that will cause one to make bad trade. therefore you must be disipline and keep to the plan. fear and greed will push to trade against the symphonie system as you account balance grow.

just keep to the guidelines of symphonie and obey the rules for enty and eit and i think you will see the slope of your account balance become steeper.

again congratulations!

eval.
  • #3,034
  • Nov 25, 2011 5:47am Nov 25, 2011 5:47am
Quoting realjumper
Yes.....that's always going to be an issue.....and you will have seen me become frustrated with newbies who keep taking these silly counter (strong) trend trades. That's what will trip up an EA. As you say, no self respecting trader would bother trading those moves, but the EA would.






No, of course it doesn't. It's not possible to back test when even one of the required indicators (read triggers) repaints. The only way is to either use a simulator or do the 'hard yards' and demo it for 2 or 3 months before taking it live on a small account....
realjumper,

it is not possible for an EA to trade the same way as a human so you have to modify the parameters of the EA and set slightly different guidelines to make the entry and exit rules more strick that one would normally trade using the symphonie system. it is possible to have a EA trade symphonie but the ea will not be as profitable because the rules are more restrictive since an ea is pure mechanical.

entry is pretty easy to define and the exit is the always trick part for an ea using symphonie trader system.

while human trade of symphonie system is more profitable the ea does have one advantage over human. an ea can trade 24/5 where human cannot. but perfecting the ea is always going to be a problem that i have for many months now tried and failed to do.

evaluator.
  • #3,035
  • Nov 25, 2011 5:50am Nov 25, 2011 5:50am
Quoting Evaluator
realjumper,

it is not possible for an EA to trade the same way as a human so you have to modify the parameters of the EA and set slightly different guidelines to make the entry and exit rules more strick that one would normally trade using the symphonie system. it is possible to have a EA trade symphonie but the ea will not be as profitable because the rules are more restrictive since an ea is pure mechanical.

entry is pretty easy to define and the exit is the always trick part for an ea using symphonie trader system.

while human trade of symphonie...
Yep.....I agree with everything you just said. Given the power of compounding profits though.....is there really a need to have an EA trade 24/5?

General election here today......yippeeeeeeeeee!!! I get to exercise my democratic right in a few hours!!!!
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #3,036
  • Nov 25, 2011 5:58am Nov 25, 2011 5:58am
Quoting jurn_e
MJ,

I did not notice the vouch until now.
Wow, thanks for my 1st Vouch.
Happy feet~
Mant congratulations to you, jurn_e .... very well deserved!!

Evaluator, I can't thank you enough for this fantastic thread, and the way you have generously, patiently and helpfully set out your system, and dealt with all questions and suggestions, from both experienced traders and newbs.

The quality of the thread (and your system) is evidenced by the number of very talented traders who have been drawn to it and have generously contributed (and are still contributing) their time and skill to raise the level of knowledge and trading ability of all thread readers .... successful traders and 'new starters' alike.

I'm sure I speak for all who follow the thread when I say to you and all those talented traders who have contributed so selflessly (I think they know who they are) .....

a Huge THANK YOU !!
  • #3,037
  • Nov 25, 2011 8:53am Nov 25, 2011 8:53am
Quoting Dm3554
Mant congratulations to you, jurn_e .... very well deserved!!

Evaluator, I can't thank you enough for this fantastic thread, and the way you have generously, patiently and helpfully set out your system, and dealt with all questions and suggestions, from both experienced traders and newbs.

The quality of the thread (and your system) is evidenced by the number of very talented traders who have been drawn to it and have generously contributed (and are still contributing) their time and skill to raise...
Glad to be of help and you are most welcome.
  • #3,038
  • Nov 25, 2011 9:13am Nov 25, 2011 9:13am
1 trade only today.
Took a Long based on M5 when spike bottom, trendline, senti-emo in alignment.
Thats all folks.

Happy Thanksgiving~
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 2011-11-25_2320.png Size: 63 KB
Pivot Boss in the making~
  • #3,039
  • Nov 25, 2011 9:27am Nov 25, 2011 9:27am
Quoting jurn_e
1 trade only today.
Took a Long based on M5 when spike bottom, trendline, senti-emo in alignment.
Thats all folks.

Happy Thanksgiving~
Same here....
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eurusdm5.gif Size: 24 KB
  • #3,040
  • Edited 10:52am Nov 25, 2011 9:35am | Edited 10:52am
First, thanks MJ and RJ for bringing present the psychological aspect of trading into this thread. I hope you both TRULY get the acknowledgment for the difference you make here!!!
This IS the biggest aspect of trading, and often put on the back burner as something to deal with...later. You will never "get around to it" and will always be 'dealing with it'. That being said, we are not monkeys, even though my icon, and now MJ's too( ) are, and as such, we can never TOTALLY act without some facet of discretion involved- even though I would like to. I notice those that have matured the fastest( trading-wise) it seems, have dealt with this most important aspect of trading in the initial stages of their growth, and know that it is something that must be reckoned with ongoingly. MJ- you're one of those peeps that most impresses me in that aspect.
"Comparison is the pitfall of mankind." I've been teaching my kids that since they were old enough to begin comprehending it. Someone will always be...a better trader that you... a worse trader than you... getting more pips than you... getting richer faster or poorer faster than you...etc. Fear and greed come into play when you think you can better someone's results as you see them, or that you're going to lose out on results so you better ACT- FAST! I cannot tell you how many times my machinery( that grey matter in my head) has hijacked my ass, and I am reacting to a situation out of that, as opposed to distinguishing it and choosing something else( a/k/a - my plan).
What I mean is ... I propose we ALL should have a plan, and should have it written down and sitting right beside us as we trade. We 'should' honor that plan with regards to our trading. We 'should' act like monkeys, doing only what we have on the plan. And yet, as humans, we should also allow for the fact that we are going to get hijacked, and hopefully can catch ourselves before we have taken any actions out of being reactivated/hijacked(i.e. chasing trades; kicking ourselves for letting one slip;etc.), and yet noone is 100%successful in that arena that I know of yet (If so, please share "how" here) .
I will close with this thought...for what it's worth. When I first started in this game of forex, I had never traded before. I saw the potential, got super excited, and showed my wife what could happen if I only bank 10 pips a day- over time, we'd be centi-millionaires. I have been trading long enough to become a centi-millionaire, and yet I am not. I can only look at my own results, and in writing this, realize and acknowledge "how much of the friggin' time I have been hijacked by being "reactivated, then beating myself up for being reactivated", and thus the vicious cycle began.
I am making a declaration, an intention here...that from this point forward, I will trade my plan( and Eval, you ARE the man with the plan), and I will catch myself BEFORE I get reactivated and BEFORE I do something regrettable, and that I will hold that space for others as well to step into so they can do the same. Let's stick to our plan.
Thanks for letting me contribute, and if you can find yourself in what I am passionately sharing about, please post something- for all of us!
Blessings, Monk E.
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