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Symphonie Trader System

  • #1,521
  • Edited 3:08pm Oct 16, 2011 2:56pm | Edited 3:08pm
Quoting realjumper
I agree......the additional tests have a negligible effect on the total......so small that it can be ignored. Also, there are many, many individual trades posted here from Eval, so my suggestion to JohnRandom is to read the thread!!!
realjumper and everyone,

After looking at the stat reports and deep reflection. I must say one thing that I am very embarrrassed to admit.

In effort to provide full disclosure and not hide anything I must admit that I do have a problem with the thread account.

For the past few weeks, I have been working with others to produce an EA based on the Symphonie Trader System. To test the various versions, I have been using them on the thread account. It was late one evening a few weeks ago and i was testing a new component using multiple entry part ''double down'' as of one of options on the EA.

I was tired and it was very late and I was not having success in getting the EA to do what I wanted it to do. I began changing different aspects of the EA and working on different settings and input variations. To make a long story short....I was very tired and at the end of a long day; I thought I pressed the Expert Advisor button turining it off position but it was in reality left on for 7 hours unattended... I then went to bed.

The next day (morning) when I looked at my computer....to my suprise the test EA has open over 100 orders of 0.10 and 0.20 size and it did not employ the stoploss that I had set in the inputs area. I quickly turned off the EA but unfortunately, this was a night when the market had moved 120 pips in the opposite direction of the EA buy. I quickly turned off the EA but have NOT closed all the orders opened by the EA. I was thinking that I could or still can ride out the trend and then close out the EA orders as not to effect the balance of the thread account.

As you can see by the floating P/L today there is a -8300 balance. That is the EA orders where the test programing went crazy. I am quite embarrassed by the event but I would rather tell everyone that this is not due to some error in manual trading the Symphonie System. The system works fine as to trading manually the EA on the other hand has been a disaster.

I am still hoping to over come this problem and ride out the storm and continue on with the thread account as normal and hopefully ride out all the bad orders that the test EA made. (all 120 of them)

I hope you can understand and accept my apology understanding why I wanted to keep this quiet but; after much sole searching, I felt it better to explain this large discrepancy in the stat reports and what caused the large floating P/L problem. I am still confident that thread account can ride out the problem but I want to stop any questions about the huge floating P/L issue. I think manually trading Symphonie will trade my way out of this mess.

I will continue trading on in the thread account following the guidelines of Post#1 of the Symphonie Trader System. I will also continue to use mini lots for testing purposes of peoples suggestions and coments on ways they think to improve the system.

I can tell you.......I will no longer be testing EAs using the thread account so this will not occur again.

My apologies to all concerned who think I may be lying about this system. I can tell you all the EAs under development have been all loosers and have had disasterous results so far. I now test EAs on a completely different machine in a completely different account.

The Symphonie Trader System does work and if you follow all the parts I am confident it will improve your trading skills.


Evaluator.

P.S. I hope this clears up any discrepancies you may have or questions about number of orders or P/L on the stat report.
  • #1,522
  • Oct 16, 2011 2:58pm Oct 16, 2011 2:58pm
Quoting JohnRandom
Rolled the system in strategy tester a little. You say that indicators (at least some of them) are looking forward, thus repainting. The picture shows that actually they are lagging pretty badly.

Each blue vertical line represents the moment when in real time a long position should be opened (all indicators are blue at the start of a new bar). The repainting feature alters the look afterwards a lot.

For fun, I also placed stoch on the chart. If you would use only it and the trendline indi for triggering trades you would get much better entries...
JohnRandom,

Extreme indikator is a forward looking indikator.

eval.
  • #1,523
  • Oct 16, 2011 3:00pm Oct 16, 2011 3:00pm
Quoting pbb
For fun, I also placed stoch on the chart. If you would use only it and the trendline indi for triggering trades you would get much better entries...

Hi John,

I think you have a good point. I don't think all indicators are needed and most of the system goes back to the color of the trend line. In that case a stoch can get you in and out multiple times in a trend, which won't with the extreme.

Do you use a cross through the 50 line of the stoch? I personally add TD lines to match setups with good looking breakouts.

Thanks,

PBB

Ps: i like the system for what it is, this thread has got a good fibe and that 's good for the thinking proces.

pbb,

DO not forget to use the next timeframe larger as a guide for direction and conformation of your signals from Symphonie.

eval.
  • #1,524
  • Oct 16, 2011 3:09pm Oct 16, 2011 3:09pm
Quoting Evaluator
pbb,

DO not forget to use the next timeframe larger as a guide for direction and conformation of your signals from Symphonie.

eval.
Good point, will do.
  • #1,525
  • Oct 16, 2011 3:18pm Oct 16, 2011 3:18pm
Quoting Evaluator
realjumper and everyone,

After looking at the stat reports and deep reflection. I must say one thing that I am very embarrrassed to admit.

In effort to provide full disclosure and not hide anything I must admit that I do have a problem with the thread account.

For the past few weeks, I have been working with others to produce an EA based on the Symphonie Trader System. To test the various versions, I have been using them on the thread account. It was late one evening a few weeks ago and i was testing a new component using multiple...
Thanks for clearing that up Eval.

My personal opinion is that EA'a just simply don't work. I have followed many EA's through the development process, and I have yet to see one work properly. Good luck with yours, but for me, manual trading is the only way to go.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #1,526
  • Oct 16, 2011 3:42pm Oct 16, 2011 3:42pm
Quoting realjumper
Thanks for clearing that up Eval.

My personal opinion is that EA'a just simply don't work. I have followed many EA's through the development process, and I have yet to see one work properly. Good luck with yours, but for me, manual trading is the only way to go.
realjumper,

I agree manual trading is best, but I think it is important to atleast explore all options possible.

If we do have something that I feel is releasable I will not release here. I will create a new thread as to not take away from the foundations of this thread. I want this thread to remain about Symphonie Trader System and not about an EA.

Eval.
  • #1,527
  • Oct 16, 2011 3:48pm Oct 16, 2011 3:48pm
Here is a good explaination of why the euro has risen against the USD even with all the bad news coming out of Europe.
(can you say setup?)

http://www.zerohedge.com/print/439193
  • #1,528
  • Oct 16, 2011 4:17pm Oct 16, 2011 4:17pm
Hi Eval,
I read through your thread and am impressed with your system.
I must admit that I gave up using indicators almost a year ago because the only time I have made real and consistent profits in the past was trading without them.
I do have to spend time my way working down through the time frames until I get to my entry chart (5 or 15 min) but I think any trader with any system should be aware of the bigger picture as you have mentioned previously (using the 30 min).

I usually read the system forums here for amusement as real trading can be very boring until you get your setups.
Funny how people always want to make EAs out of every system, over optimizing it for one currency pair just to get the EA to work and end up losing focus on the actual true system itself.
Hence the thread usually ends up dying.

That being said, I am putting one foot back over to the dark side and am going to run your 5 min chart next to my naked one as I believe your system has true merit to it.
Your initial concept of the use of indicators, combining trending, oscillating and momentum is how a real indicator system should be setup.
Have you noticed a lot of systems combine indis that tell the same info (for example a CCI, RSI AND Stochastic).

Just a suggestion for what it is worth:
Don't spend a whole lot of time on an EA and use that time to make real money with your actual system.

That brings me to the real reason for even posting:

Just start a new account and post your trades starting from there and watch it grow. Have a standard posting method of a chart and a narrative of the trade (reason for entry, stoploss, targets and size). Look at add-ons with non-extreme spikes in the same direction as the original trade? Maybe add a new pair each month?

As I said earlier I believe you system has real merit so trade it as a real trader!!!!!!!!!

Anyways,
There is no criticism intended here.
Well Done.

KRMO
Attitude can reflect outcome in life and trading!
  • #1,529
  • Oct 16, 2011 4:35pm Oct 16, 2011 4:35pm
Quoting krmo
Hi Eval,
I read through your thread and am impressed with your system.
I must admit that I gave up using indicators almost a year ago because the only time I have made real and consistent profits in the past was trading without them.
I do have to spend time my way working down through the time frames until I get to my entry chart (5 or 15 min) but I think any trader with any system should be aware of the bigger picture as you have mentioned previously (using the 30 min).

I usually read the system forums here for amusement as real trading can be...
krmo,

Thank you for your very nice write up. It is very much appreciated. Yes, I trade this system with live accounts and I am being successful. The reason I have been working on an EA as it is believed that all aspects of the Symphonie System can be incorporated into an EA.

As an tinkerer, I want to explore all options and as I stated earlier. If we reach a point where it is possible and I feel comfortable with an EA release I will do so. BUT not in this thread. I will make a separate EA thread. There people can fight over the EA its functions, problem etc.... but not here.

I want this thread to be only about the Symphonie Trader System and NOT about an EA what is based on this system.


Thanks again and keep the comments coming.

Eval
  • #1,530
  • Oct 16, 2011 6:16pm Oct 16, 2011 6:16pm
Hi Eval,just read your post re the EA going off. I remember sitting down watching the tennis and thinking i had changed from a live account to a demo account and placing a trade with a mega amount of lots for that size account. While watching the tennis i could see the trade not going my way but being a keen sports person couldn't leave the game, did it matter whether the account was running blood red. NO. It was just a demo. Well to my horror when i got off the couch and decided enough was enough i realized it was my live account going down.

I guess the moral here is we probably all have a similar tale of woe. Point is the stayers in the game are still in it and beleive in what we do.

Keep up the good work , i am sure it will only be a matter of days and you will be on track again.
  • #1,531
  • Oct 16, 2011 6:33pm Oct 16, 2011 6:33pm
Eval, we are all only human beings and that's what life's really beautiful. your explanation makes sense and does not detract from any of your hard work, but thank for let us know the EA behavior of that nigth.
I think more important than developing an EA is to create a monitor that will help us to improve mechanical trading, would contribute significantly to the development of skills with the system.
Best regards and thanks for the PM.
Humble & Kalcker CLO2 = Covid killer
  • #1,532
  • Oct 16, 2011 7:50pm Oct 16, 2011 7:50pm
Hi Eval,
First, I want to commend you and have earn my respect (I am sure a lot of you do too) for being honest and open about what went wrong with the account. The biggest problem with a lot of us is not the mistake but a willingness to own up and be accountable for it, then move on and converge back to the correct path.

As for the EA, I started my forex trading purchasing an EA without knowing much about this business. It was really nice going in the beginning and earning lots of money. While it was doing that, I begin to read and learn a lot about forex (everything I could get a handle of) and the more I read the more I realize that this EA is not going to make it in the long term. By then, my account has already gone negative and I decided to close it.

I don't beleive an EA can work in the long term. This is not trying to disregard the great programmers who contributed on this thread. But to have an EA making all the trading decisions with my hard earn money is analogous to letting something else controlling my fate regardless of whether hundreds of hours have been spent trying to make it the best EA. I think an EA will be good if it can provide an alert for us to decide if that is the right time to pull the trigger because market conditions keep changing every hours and days.

Eval, I think your system already incorporated sentiment, momentum, trend and emotions and I really don't know what else we need to trade confidently besides the experience and knowledge of S/R and key levels to watch for. An EA will not know if we are in a major S/R level as it will just triggered whenever conditions are met.
Road to financial freedom
  • #1,533
  • Oct 16, 2011 9:05pm Oct 16, 2011 9:05pm
Quoting Evaluator
krmo,

Thank you for your very nice write up. It is very much appreciated. Yes, I trade this system with live accounts and I am being successful. The reason I have been working on an EA as it is believed that all aspects of the Symphonie System can be incorporated into an EA.

As an tinkerer, I want to explore all options and as I stated earlier. If we reach a point where it is possible and I feel comfortable with an EA release I will do so. BUT not in this thread. I will make a separate EA thread. There people can fight over the EA its functions,...
Hi Eval,
Keep working on EA about the Symphonie Trader System. I have developed my EA with strategy system almost same yours. I could say that it run well in back-tested and real account as well.

Hau Nguyen.
  • #1,534
  • Oct 17, 2011 12:31am Oct 17, 2011 12:31am
Quoting sakhan_nph
Hi Eval,
I have developed my EA with strategy system almost same yours. I could say that it run well in back-tested and real account as well.

Hau Nguyen.
Nice to hear ! So could you post this EA - may be better in a new thread ?
  • #1,535
  • Oct 17, 2011 1:11am Oct 17, 2011 1:11am
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: AUDUSD 5min 17102011 Symphonie.png Size: 81 KB


Hi Eval, please find the attached on my query, if such case should happen in the future, what should we do? Immediate reversed or continue to hold on to the initial position? What would you suggest to do?
  • #1,536
  • Oct 17, 2011 1:26am Oct 17, 2011 1:26am
just ice breaker ....

Price Action made Indi

or

Indi made Price Action


Just a thought ......
not euphoria follower
  • #1,537
  • Oct 17, 2011 2:10am Oct 17, 2011 2:10am
Hi Eval, So far I've not seen any EA that works in the long term probably because operates 24hour to do trading, however if u are still very interested to program the EA to trade, probably u can program it to only start trade from UK open until US session close. Perhaps this can increase the chances of winning. Just a passerby suggestion, but so far I've not seen EA that can be programmed this way?

Quoting Evaluator
krmo,

Thank you for your very nice write up. It is very much appreciated. Yes, I trade this system with live accounts and I am being successful. The reason I have been working on an EA as it is believed that all aspects of the Symphonie System can be incorporated into an EA.

As an tinkerer, I want to explore all options and as I stated earlier. If we reach a point where it is possible and I feel comfortable with an EA release I will do so. BUT not in this thread. I will make a separate EA thread. There people can fight over the EA its functions,...
  • #1,538
  • Oct 17, 2011 3:26am Oct 17, 2011 3:26am
3900 may be a hurdle to overcome.......
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eu.jpg Size: 65 KB
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #1,539
  • Edited 5:32am Oct 17, 2011 5:09am | Edited 5:32am
SELL ORDER

Server FOREX.Com (UK) Live
Time frame: M30

Order Open Price: 1.3839
Order Open Time: 2011.10.17 10:00
Order SL: -30pips
Order TP: +100pips
  • #1,540
  • Oct 17, 2011 5:51am Oct 17, 2011 5:51am
Quoting sakhan_nph
SELL ORDER

Server FOREX.Com (UK) Live
Time frame: M30

Order Open Price: 1.3839
Order Open Time: 2011.10.17 10:00
Order SL: -30pips
Order TP: +100pips
Consider when reach half TakeProfit move SL = Entry point or close 1/2 order volume.
Thanks!
Hau Nguyen
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