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Symphonie Trader System

  • #1,001
  • Oct 5, 2011 5:17pm Oct 5, 2011 5:17pm
Quoting Alianzer
I baktested it from a year back. Win ratio was over 40% and thats including the 3 pip BE.
Because of the repainting issues AND the part of the method is just judgment. Mechanical back tests are pretty much worthless. A huge part of trading is the trader himself. Look at most of the posts on this thread all posting good results, I come on here and havn't really had a good trade yet. There are just too many variables for backtesting to be worth a crap.

You'll never find an edge through mechanical back tests.

At best mechanical back tests are only good for saying, "mmmm this might work I'll give it a try, or, looks like a loser won't even bother."

If mechanical back tests weren't worthless just about every one on this entire forum with half a brain. would load up a few years of data, run every method they read or heard about through it and just trade the one with the best expectency.

Forward test with small lots, if you can make it work well out of ten times, then well out of 100 times then well out of 1000's times on forward MANUAL testing, then you know for sure you have a good edge.
  • #1,002
  • Oct 5, 2011 5:19pm Oct 5, 2011 5:19pm
Quoting Alianzer
Well he did tell the truth. As a mechanical sys it suks. You ware wery lucky with this system for the time being but...now you change it to 30 min coz of the market movment. In my humble opinion its a losser sry. You said it yourself you didynt like semafors right? And you jusing and indi just like them.
Puting some experts to work is ryly hard coz most of them is just crap,and you started ading more and more the trnedline stc etc. Dont get my wrong i wish you all the best but i think relinig a sys on a repainting cycle indi{wich is the heart} is...
Alianzer,

''you change it to 30 min coz of the market movment'' WHAT??? What does that mean? I will assume you mean I have changed to 30 min. trading this week....Is that what you mean?

If so, I did not change to a different timeframe because it was going to fail. I changed... to 30 min. because alot of people were complaining that all I was trading only in 5 min and they wanted to see me trade in high timeframe....so in post #716. Therefore to prove to everyone the system will work with any currency pair and in any timeframe .....I changed timeframe.

I also annouced so everyone could see I was making a timeframe change and will trade in 30 min versus 5 min. To quote from post #716:

Quote
The basic principles of the system outlined in post #1 will not change

Since you feel this system is not for you, I highly encourage you to stop wasting your time in this thread. For your sake, go find another trading strategy that better meets your needs and will build confidence in your trading because the way I read your post you lack confidence in your trading ability.

Best regards,

Evaluator.
  • #1,003
  • Oct 5, 2011 5:25pm Oct 5, 2011 5:25pm
Quoting Wally1953
I'm sorry if you took my post the wrong way. I guess it came off as sarcastic. When I say "amazing system" I mean it, not being a wise guy. And I was just curious in case you traded pairs other than EU, not accusing.

I truly think what you're doing here is amazing and very much appreciate all of your efforts.

Wally1953,

NO NO NO....my apologies to you if I sounded short. I must admit I was alittle frustrated with the posts from Easyrider and Alianzer and I was moving fast trying to do too many things at once..and answer their attacks.

I was just pointing out that I am only trading EURUSD right now and what I viewed as the question.

HOWEVER, to prove the system works in other currency pairs I will (at some later date) be trading in another pair. I will announce and keep transparant for all to see.

Again, my apologies if I came across hard.

Best Regards,

eval.
  • #1,004
  • Oct 5, 2011 5:28pm Oct 5, 2011 5:28pm
Guys,
In my opinion the goal of forums like FF is for traders to help each other and for newbies to learn from the more experienced traders. I know that I was losing money in my first year of trading and that it changed when I discovered forums like this. I have a lot of respect for people like Evaluator who are willing to invest time and energy in teaching others. It's good to discuss systems but please post positive criticism and try to contribute to this forum in a positive way. I don't want to offend anyone, but that 's just my opinion...
  • #1,005
  • Oct 5, 2011 5:29pm Oct 5, 2011 5:29pm
Quoting Alianzer
I baktested it from a year back. Win ratio was over 40% and thats including the 3 pip BE.

Alianzer,

How can you backtest indikators??? How can you understand the market and the changing events of the moment in backtest??

The best way to do understand this system is open a demo account follow the guidelines and live trade it.

Backtesting is not reliable.

Evaluator.
  • #1,006
  • Oct 5, 2011 5:36pm Oct 5, 2011 5:36pm
Quoting KumoDragon
Because of the repainting issues AND the part of the method is just judgment. Mechanical back tests are pretty much worthless. A huge part of trading is the trader himself. Look at most of the posts on this thread all posting good results, I come on here and havn't really had a good trade yet. There are just too many variables for backtesting to be worth a crap.

You'll never find an edge through mechanical back tests.

At best mechanical back tests are only good for saying, "mmmm this might work I'll give it a try, or, looks like a loser...

Very nicely put KumoDragon. Thank you.
  • #1,007
  • Oct 5, 2011 5:39pm Oct 5, 2011 5:39pm
Quoting FastForex
Guys,
In my opinion the goal of forums like FF is for traders to help each other and for newbies to learn from the more experienced traders. I know that I was losing money in my first year of trading and that it changed when I discovered forums like this. I have a lot of respect for people like Evaluator who are willing to invest time and energy in teaching others. It's good to discuss systems but please post positive criticism and try to contribute to this forum in a positive way. I don't want to offend anyone, but that 's just my opinion...

FastForex,

Very well said! Thank you much for your comment.

eval.
  • #1,008
  • Oct 5, 2011 5:47pm Oct 5, 2011 5:47pm
Could we be looking at a market crash soon???

Quote
NEW YORK (Reuters) - In less than one hour on Tuesday, the U.S. stock market surged by 4 percent -- for no apparent reason.
The last hour of trading was the most volatile final hour in two months -- and it occurred at a speed that frightens many, from experienced hedge-fund managers to mom-and-pop investors.
The late-day "melt-up" that pushed the S&P 500 index <.SPX> out of bear-market territory might be construed as good news. But it brings back echoes of the "flash crash" that saw markets dive by several hundred points in a matter of...

Its not the 4% rally that is so bad....what is scarry is the ''no apparent reason'' part.

Source:
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/u-stocks-ma...201253607.html
  • #1,009
  • Oct 5, 2011 5:52pm Oct 5, 2011 5:52pm
Like i said i bactested it like any other sys. I knew the resuts woold be bad coz of the cycle. And you do know that with proper MM and strickt discipline etc 3 MA crossing will be also a good system, ppl did made money on that still are.
Anyway i will read only so chill mate im just saying that your not realy lerning coz like somone befoure giving you a question "is this a good entry ?" You say "yes that is corect". But you never tell that you woodynt take it coz of fib RN flat market etc. Get my point. Im giving you credits for your time and heart in this but your not teling newbies that thos 4 indis is only 25% of the decision to make a terade. YOu never said that you go with a higher time frame thats why i asked you didynt precisise if you trend or counter trend thts why i asked.
Either way good luck, hope this will end up to you in a good way
  • #1,010
  • Oct 5, 2011 5:59pm Oct 5, 2011 5:59pm
I have a quick question about the 4 indicators lining up.

Say you want to go short, and there is a short extreme bar, but the rest don't line up.

Then later on you get a long extreme bar, and it doesn't dissapear. So, both extreme bars are printed. First short then long.

Then the other three indicators line up short.

For a short that is a non trade because of the long extreme bar?

So, the last extreme bar printed is the only one you consider?
  • #1,011
  • Edited 7:16pm Oct 5, 2011 6:14pm | Edited 7:16pm
Quoting Alianzer
Like i said i bactested it like any other sys. I knew the resuts woold be bad coz of the cycle. And you do know that with proper MM and strickt discipline etc 3 MA crossing will be also a good system, ppl did made money on that still are.
Anyway i will read only so chill mate im just saying that your not realy lerning coz like somone befoure giving you a question "is this a good entry ?" You say "yes that is corect". But you never tell that you woodynt take it coz of fib RN flat market etc. Get my point. Im giving you credits for your time...

Sir you are absolutely......WRONG.

Post #716 Post #726 Post #727 Post #757 Post #781 Post #789......

Just look at how many times I told people about my move to 30 min timeframe....to say:

Quote
YOu never said that you go with a higher time frame thats why i asked you didynt precisise if you trend or counter trend thts why i asked.
is just a plain out false statement. I tell people they are correct...when.....THEY ARE CORRECT! If they are learning the system and make a statement that agrees with the signals and what I believe is right...guess what....I am going to say ''you are right'' because I believe it too.

I can see now you are just arguing to argue. If that is all you wish to do, please take it to another thread. We are busy making money and all this crap just takes the focus off the thread.

I ask politely you respect the thread because I have now proven your statements false.

Evaluator.

P.S. I also restate...if you do not like this system or it does not meet your needs...go find another thread that excites you and helps you trade. Because you obviously like another way than this system...so go do it and leave us in peace.....to Quote you:

Quote
And you do know that with proper MM and strickt discipline etc 3 MA crossing will be also a good system, ppl did made money on that still are.
  • #1,012
  • Oct 5, 2011 6:16pm Oct 5, 2011 6:16pm
I see a lot of questions here about the indicators.....whether they repaint or whether they all line up etc etc etc.

In my opinion, you cannot rely 100% on the indicators.....to do so is foolish. A large part of being a successful trader is understanding the market.....or more specifically, the currency pair you are trading. Once you have an intimate knowledge of the currency pair you like to trade, and you have demoed this system (warts and all), you should be fine.

For instance, with a strong bear run there will be several minor pullbacks,most of which form bull traps. For sure (on the lower time frames), you will get a long signal. Will you take the long? I won't, but that's just me. Even if if you did take take it, what's the worst thing that will happen? You'll get stopped out. Big deal. Soon the bull trap will break and you will get a short signal that concurred with the bear run and you can resume taking money from this market.

In short......use a little common sense and don't expect this system, or any system in fact, to trade for you. The system will assist you (greatly) in your trading, but it isn't a replacement for understanding the market, for basic technical analysis, or for common sense.

RJ
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #1,013
  • Oct 5, 2011 6:27pm Oct 5, 2011 6:27pm
RJ

back to trading ....
EU and GU looks like knocking on heaven's door
Inserted Video



Quoting realjumper
I see a lot of questions here about the indicators.....whether they repaint or whether they all line up etc etc etc.

In my opinion, you cannot rely 100% on the indicators.....to do so is foolish. A large part of being a successful trader is understanding the market.....or more specifically, the currency pair you are trading. Once you have an intimate knowledge of the currency pair you like to trade, and you have demoed this system (warts and all), you should be fine.

For instance, with a strong bear run there will be several minor pullbacks,most...
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  • #1,014
  • Oct 5, 2011 6:29pm Oct 5, 2011 6:29pm
Quoting KumoDragon
I have a quick question about the 4 indicators lining up.

Say you want to go short, and there is a short extreme bar, but the rest don't line up.

Then later on you get a long extreme bar, and it doesn't dissapear. So, both extreme bars are printed. First short then long.

Then the other three indicators line up short.

For a short that is a non trade because of the long extreme bar?

So, the last extreme bar printed is the only one you consider?

KumoDragon,

Let me see if I understand you what you are asking. You only take a trade when they line up one on top of each other`? I don't think that will ever happen.

The alignment will always be staggered. It generally works inthis order...
1 Extreme Spike 2 could be Sentiment or Emotion 3 same sentiment or emotion and last is usually 4 the trendline. (see graph)

''Say you want to go short, and there is a short extreme bar, but the rest don't line up.''

Answer: Then you do not take the trade.

You only consider a trade when all 4 indicators are pointing in the sae direction. When the 4th one aligns with the other, at close of that candlestick, would be when you place and order.

Then you just follow your choice of Exit Strategies from Post#1 and practice Order Account Balance Protection and you are on your way.

There is one exception that is explained in below the Exit Strategies and it is about when an extreme spike appears before the 30 pip positive. (agian post #1)

Please let me know if I have satisfactory answer your question.

Good Luck.

eval.
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  • #1,015
  • Oct 5, 2011 6:46pm Oct 5, 2011 6:46pm
Quoting Evaluator
KumoDragon,

Let me see if I understand you what you are asking. You only take a trade when they line up one on top of each other`? I don't think that will ever happen.

The alignment will always be staggered. It generally works inthis order...
1 Extreme Spike 2 could be Sentiment or Emotion 3 same sentiment or emotion and last is usually 4 the trendline. (see graph)

''Say you want to go short, and there is a short extreme bar, but the rest don't line up.''

Answer: Then you do not take the trade.

You only consider a trade when all 4 indicators...
No I thats no what I meant. I know they will never line up on top of each other and are usually staggered.

What I meant was say: You get a short spike, then a long spike. Both print. Then when the other three all go short, you still have a short spike followed by a long spike, both printed.

Does the second spike make it a non trade and invalidate the past short spike? So, for all 4 to line up you'd have to wait for another short spike in front of the last long spike.
  • #1,016
  • Oct 5, 2011 7:05pm Oct 5, 2011 7:05pm
Quoting KumoDragon
No I thats no what I meant. I know they will never line up on top of each other and are usually staggered.

What I meant was say: You get a short spike, then a long spike. Both print. Then when the other three all go short, you still have a short spike followed by a long spike, both printed.

Does the second spike make it a non trade and invalidate the past short spike? So, for all 4 to line up you'd have to wait for another short spike in front of the last long spike.
KumoDragon

I do not mean to be difficult but I am lost in what you said. Let me see if I understand.

You receive an extreme spike up (topping signal) then you later get a corresponding Extreme Spike (bottoming signal) but the other three indikators still show red. At that point you only have one indikator (extreme spike) showing BUY signal while the other 3 indikators show SELL signals. What should you do?

In that situation, wait for an Extreme Spike pointing to a SELL. The moment all 4 point in the same direction then place an order at close of that candlestick in that direction.

(is that right? did I understand you?)

I agree with the last part of your last sentence ''for all 4 to line up you'd have to wait for another short spike'' which should come after the extreme BUY spike signal.

Please let me know if I satisfactory answer your question. If not can you draw it out and post a jpeg.

Regards,

eval.
  • #1,017
  • Oct 5, 2011 7:16pm Oct 5, 2011 7:16pm
Quoting Evaluator
KumoDragon

I do not mean to be difficult but I am lost in what you said. Let me see if I understand.

You receive an extreme spike up (topping signal) then you later get a corresponding Extreme Spike (bottoming signal) but the other three indikators still show red. At that point you only have one indikator (extreme spike) showing BUY signal while the other 3 indikators show SELL signals. What should you do?

In that situation, wait for an Extreme Spike pointing to a SELL. The moment all 4 point in the same direction then place an order at close...
Yep that got it.
  • #1,018
  • Oct 5, 2011 7:19pm Oct 5, 2011 7:19pm
Quoting KumoDragon
Yep that got it.

WHEW!!!! I was getting worried there.....
  • #1,019
  • Oct 5, 2011 7:55pm Oct 5, 2011 7:55pm
Well it is almost 2am for me and I want to close this day with a few words to put some issues to bed. (me too ....ha ha ha)

--------------------------------------------

The Symphonie Trader System is meant as a total comprehensive strategy that is design to help the trader make reliable winning trades consistantly. This is not to say that every trade will be a winner....That is not what I am saying. I am saying you will trade better and beable to recover from loosing trades and with more confidence that will inturn reinforce your abilities helping you to be a profitable trader.

As we have discussed......MANY MANY...too many times; The four indikators of the Symphonie Trader System are (individually) weak indikators and one in particular is prone to repaint. I hope everyone understands this point. HOWEVER, these weak indikators do identify one thing that they do very well; that is they are good at guaging the four underpinning elements that drive GREED and FEAR in the marketplace.
GREED and FEAR drives price action that drives marketplace demand and supply. These four element Extreme (the weakest of the indikators) followed by Emotion, followed by Sentiment, and followed by Trend or Trendline help to pin point when markets are going to continue to move in a certain direction or change direction.

This systems is not about picking the very top or very bottom of a market movement. These indikators (when combined) are design to get you infront entry points of the bulk piece (largest part) of a price action movement so you can maximize profit and reduce risk.

The second part of this system pertains specifically to YOU the trader. This is the structure part to help the trade with proper money management disipline, ARS (account ratio system) to prevent you from overleverage (i.e. place orders with larger lots than you should), Order Account Balance Protection rules (max protect for your account by tight StopLoss managment), and lastly (some say most important) Exit Strategies that help you maximize profit by identifing how, where, and when you should exit a trade.

Just like a Symphonie the totality of all instruments working together produce the best sound. The Totality of the Symphonie Trader System is an all encompasing strategy that will provide reliable consistant profitable trading while protecting you by minimizing your losses through proper money management rules.

In conclusion, will the system be wrong?...answer YES some of the time the system will make the wrong call and you will take a Stoploss hit. Will the system make the right call? answer....yes because it will identiy the market changes putting you on the right side of the trade. The key is good reliable entry points producing more profit and making less losses.

To back this up I have posted most of my trades and produced a Account Stat report to back up my trading method and managment strategy. I think the numbers speak for themselves but

I must say to you....THIS SYSTEM WORKS!!!

Everyone have a wonderful morning, afternoon, evening, or night wherever you may reside. Please remember I will try my best to provide the best answers I know how to do. Sometimes I am wrong but I think most of the time I am right.

Regards,

Evaluator.
  • #1,020
  • Oct 5, 2011 8:42pm Oct 5, 2011 8:42pm
GU-Update
Quoting iqyu5an
RJ

back to trading ....
EU and GU looks like knocking on heaven's door
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcWTTs8QVRc
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