MB Trading Futures - Introduction | Page 410 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Introduction and trading basics 27 replies

Introduction to Level 2 4 replies

VTTrader: How to Write Your Own VT Indicator Introduction. 0 replies

Interest Rates: An Introduction 0 replies

An introduction to spread betting 0 replies

Attachments: MB Trading Futures - Introduction
Exit Attachments

MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #8,181
  • Sep 29, 2011 4:43pm Sep 29, 2011 4:43pm
Smittens,

I read that as Metatrader only too.

OK by me... 2.95 per side is only one third of a pip....

They'll widen the spreads on the Metatrader No Fee account because there is no free lunch. My guess is that this is an optics thing. It looks more like what Metatrader people are used to seeing in the marketplace.

You'll pay no matter what.

I used to pay MB 4.95 per side and was happy to get true ECN execution then... things are a bit more competitive now, but I'm happy to pay 2.95 per side for what I am getting.
  • #8,182
  • Sep 29, 2011 5:18pm Sep 29, 2011 5:18pm
Quote
FREE ECN: Offering slightly wider pricing with no fees, but still allows you to post your Limit orders to be immediately reflected to the market for others to hit. In that plan, our fees are built into the small mark-up of the spread.

PAY FOR LIMITS: Offering slightly tighter pricing, small fees for order routing, and the ability to get paid for posting limit orders that others can see and hit.

Now the question is how wide is wider and how tight is tighter? Are we going to see EURUSD average 1.2 pips for Free ECN and average 0.5 pips for Pay for Limits?


Quoting shrike
I believe you can download historical data from the customer section of their website.
That is a tick data but I only need 1min data. Anyone?
  • #8,183
  • Sep 29, 2011 5:54pm Sep 29, 2011 5:54pm
I applaud MBT in offering two different pricing options. Having that been said, baking the commission into the spread is not really a new idea. Overall, I'd say "buzz fail".

I am curious though: If MT4 accounts will be getting a different spread than "raw" accounts, with presumably MBT acting as the counter party picking up the difference, what does that mean for liquidity providing customers (limit orders) at or inside the spread in Navigator? If our limit orders are better pricing than MBT's markup, do they get exposed to MT4 "free tier" users? Or will MBT consume our orders, pay us the $1.95, then resell them to the MT4 guys? (That's what I'd do if I were MBT and had their trade matching ops in place.) If so, then getting paid for limit orders seems to be a straw man as now we're competing with the house (MBT) in a way... different, but similar to trading with a bucket shop.
  • #8,184
  • Sep 29, 2011 6:45pm Sep 29, 2011 6:45pm
Their explanation is extremely poor. I hope they make another attempt that is a bit more clear. Based on the comments on this thread, I don't think I am the only who is confused.
  • #8,185
  • Sep 29, 2011 6:51pm Sep 29, 2011 6:51pm
Quoting ForexQuant
Are we going to see EURUSD average 1.2 pips for Free ECN and average 0.5 pips for Pay for Limits?
EUR/USD's average spread is definitely not 0.5. According to my data, during Lon or NY it's around 0.7, which is also what FX Intelligence posts.
  • #8,186
  • Sep 29, 2011 6:54pm Sep 29, 2011 6:54pm
Quoting bugscoe
They're going after the Oanda customers.
Yes, people probably read commission then run lol
  • #8,187
  • Sep 29, 2011 7:04pm Sep 29, 2011 7:04pm
Quoting toadkelly200
Their explanation is extremely poor. I hope they make another attempt that is a bit more clear. Based on the comments on this thread, I don't think I am the only who is confused.
If I read correctly, if you have Metatrader (or open a new MT account under this plan), trading is commission free. They don't pay you, you don't pay them. However, the "commission" is built into the spread, so it will be wider.

If you don't have a metrader, nothing changes with "Pay for Limits." Pay for limits is where you don't pay commission, instead the pay you if you go with a limit order. Commission for non-limit orders.
  • #8,188
  • Sep 29, 2011 7:56pm Sep 29, 2011 7:56pm
Quoting surewin888
Do anyone know if MB Trading offer PAM like dukascopy?
Surewin,
Yes they do have that functionality called "Managed Account Trading (MAT)" by which other accounts are linked to your log-in (after approved and paper completed). There is a window from w/i Desktop Pro that allows you to select which accounts are included on a trade and at what percent.

Now my question for Justin--It appears silly/obnoxious/inconvenient (choose your description) that only trades place from within the MAT window using the Order Entry Pane get MAT treatment. That is to say, you cannot trade MAT using Order Entry from the chart, market depth, or similar features. Additionally (and this will be posted in the Yahoo! SDK group) it is not apparent how to trade a MAT order using the SDK.

I would think/assume/hope that if you have a defined "MAT Group" that the group would be selectable using the "Select Account..." right-click option from any Order Entry Pane or even the main account designation in the upper right main Desktop Pro window.

Hope that is clear and hope that I have overlooked something...fingers crossed!

Thanks!
BroncoCap
  • #8,189
  • Sep 29, 2011 10:24pm Sep 29, 2011 10:24pm
Quoting grimReaper
If I read correctly, if you have Metatrader (or open a new MT account under this plan), trading is commission free. They don't pay you, you don't pay them. However, the "commission" is built into the spread, so it will be wider.

If you don't have a metrader, nothing changes with "Pay for Limits." Pay for limits is where you don't pay commission, instead the pay you if you go with a limit order. Commission for non-limit orders.
Grimreaper (and others)-

Let me clear up a couple of points. There will be a lot more information on the website when we start taking Live accounts for the new plan in a couple of weeks, but I can fill in some of the blanks.

This is an entirely new quote feed based on our most reliable bank partners. The spread mark-up happens on the fly, but your orders are still routed out based on the bank that is displaying the best price at the time. So for a simplified example, let’s say that the EURUSD is 1.5301 by 1.5302 with one bank showing the 1.5301 bid and one bank showing the 1.5302 ask. Let’s say that on the EURUSD, we mark it up 0.2 pips. So, the displayed quote that you will actually see is 1.53009 by 1.53021 (0.1 pip added each side). If you route an order, we still go hit the bank, get you an execution, but the extra spread is kept by us. This eliminates any commissions after the fact, so your PnL will be the net numbers. However, if you post a Limit order, it still cuts directly into the spread for other customers to see and hit ON THAT QUOTE FEED. So in the example above, where the quote is displayed at 1.53009 by 1.53021, if you want to place a Limit buy at 1.53015 (right in the middle), you will become the bid. All customers trading on the FREE ECN pricing model will immediately see your order in the quote. If someone sells, they hit you first, just like our other quote feed. Even with that, no commission or fees paid by you or them. You match straight up and we make nothing on those trades. Just note that these feeds are complete separate technologies, so a customer on the new FREE ECN plan placing a Limit order, his/her order will not be seen by customers on the Pay for Limits plan. There’s no crossover (yet) because they are completely separate systems that just share most of the same liquidity providers.

This is MetaTrader 4 ONLY. It requires a separate (new) account if you already have an MT4 account, but there is a form to add an account that is very simple. You can move funds intraday between accounts. Down the road, we will probably have the ability to let you switch which commission plan you are on with the same account. It’s also possible that we will offer this for Desktop/Desktop Pro accounts in the future, but I don’t know details about if or when that will happen.

Note that NOTHING is changing about the existing plan at this time. You can still open a new account with 2.95 per 100k base currency paid for market orders and get paid 1.95 per 100k base currency on Limit orders that display and get hit by someone else. This new plan is simply a different OPTION for customers that prefer to see their costs net in the price without having to deal with commissions. If you like the existing 2.95 Get Paid system, keep using it. Nothing will change there. Same providers, same quotes, same fees, same offer to pay you if you add liquidity for others.

Also, I saw someone reference that perhaps “MBT (would be) acting as the counter party picking up the difference.” This is not the case still. We are purely STP with added ECN. We don’t maintain positions against customer trades. That would change our filing with the NFA/CFTC.

If there are any questions, please post them here and I will reply on Friday.
  • #8,190
  • Sep 29, 2011 10:52pm Sep 29, 2011 10:52pm
well there's no change at all for non-MT4 users if you look closer..
do the math:
2.95 routing fee is same;
1.95 paid for limits is same;
1.00(2.95-1.95) you pay for half market, half limit
3.90(1.95*2) MB pays you for both open and close limits
5.90(2.95*2) you pay for both open and close markets

like bugscoe said, new client pool is targeted that are MT4 users; for those who
use MB Desktop, no change at all
  • #8,191
  • Edited 11:57pm Sep 29, 2011 11:42pm | Edited 11:57pm
Quoting Cerber.bf2
well there's no change at all for non-MT4 users if you look closer..
do the math:
2.95 routing fee is same;
1.95 paid for limits is same;
1.00(2.95-1.95) you pay for half market, half limit
3.90(1.95*2) MB pays you for both open and close limits
5.90(2.95*2) you pay for both open and close markets

like bugscoe said, new client pool is targeted that are MT4 users; for those who
use MB Desktop, no change at all
I would assume nothing is actually "change" for Free ECN Plan too. The commission is just mark up in the spread. So instead of average 0.9 pips on EURUSD, they may get (0.9 + 0.295 * 1.35 * 2) = 1.7pips. Even worse they still get the same spread when they exit through limit order while the Get Paid Plan only pay (0.9 + 0.295 * 1.35 - 0.195 * 1.35) = 1pip.

Quote
so a customer on the new FREE ECN plan placing a Limit order, his/her order will not be seen by customers on the Pay for Limits plan. There’s no crossover (yet) because they are completely separate systems that just share most of the same liquidity providers.

Can the Free ECN Plan customer see the limit order sent by Pay for limit plan customer? I assume not (yet) if this is a completely separated system.

Justin, Could you please look into this issue when you are free?http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...74#post4981374
  • #8,192
  • Sep 30, 2011 12:31am Sep 30, 2011 12:31am
Quoting jleblang
Grimreaper (and others)-

Let me clear up a couple of points. There will be a lot more information on the website when we start taking Live accounts for the new plan in a couple of weeks, but I can fill in some of the blanks.

This is an entirely new quote feed based on our most reliable bank partners. The spread mark-up happens on the fly, but your orders are still routed out based on the bank that is displaying the best price at the time. So for a simplified example, let’s say that the EURUSD is 1.5301 by 1.5302 with one bank showing the...
Hi Justin,

Can you explain this:

1. If this is ECN, how can you manipulate spread?

2. What are the exact "fees" (spread increase)? Is it 0.1 pip on all pairs? If I use live market orders only, is it more economically viable for me to use the FREE plan over current one (since I don't get paid for orders).

3. Do you still pay for rollovers, same % as in old plan?
"Everyone gets what they want out of the market." -- Ed Seykota
  • #8,193
  • Sep 30, 2011 1:26am Sep 30, 2011 1:26am
This sounds fubar without a marketdepth display, which MT4 lacks. If i want to trade 100K i cannot tell if the quotes displayed are good for 1K or 1 Mil. I might get 1K for the displayed price, and 99K a few pips worse. Impossible to tell with this.
  • #8,194
  • Sep 30, 2011 1:44am Sep 30, 2011 1:44am
Quoting Cerber.bf2
well there's no change at all for non-MT4 users if you look closer..
do the math:
2.95 routing fee is same;
1.95 paid for limits is same;
1.00(2.95-1.95) you pay for half market, half limit
3.90(1.95*2) MB pays you for both open and close limits
5.90(2.95*2) you pay for both open and close markets

like bugscoe said, new client pool is targeted that are MT4 users; for those who
use MB Desktop, no change at all
Cerber.bf2,

For now that is the case. Don't assume that is a permanent situation. MT4 software is connected to us differently than Desktop/Pro.
  • #8,195
  • Sep 30, 2011 1:44am Sep 30, 2011 1:44am
Quoting ForexQuant
I would assume nothing is actually "change" for Free ECN Plan too. The commission is just mark up in the spread. So instead of average 0.9 pips on EURUSD, they may get (0.9 + 0.295 * 1.35 * 2) = 1.7pips. Even worse they still get the same spread when they exit through limit order while the Get Paid Plan only pay (0.9 + 0.295 * 1.35 - 0.195 * 1.35) = 1pip.



Can the Free ECN Plan customer see the limit order sent by Pay for limit plan customer? I assume not (yet) if this is a completely separated system.

Justin, Could you please look into...
As I said in post 8189, Limit orders displayed are only visible to others on the same plan...two different systems.
  • #8,196
  • Sep 30, 2011 1:46am Sep 30, 2011 1:46am
Quoting shrike
This sounds fubar without a marketdepth display, which MT4 lacks. If i want to trade 100K i cannot tell if the quotes displayed are good for 1K or 1 Mil. I might get 1K for the displayed price, and 99K a few pips worse. Impossible to tell with this.
Shrike, again, the fact that this is only MT4 for now doesn't mean that it is permanent. We wish MT4 had a market depth window too, but it isn't our software. and we can't embed one.
  • #8,197
  • Sep 30, 2011 1:49am Sep 30, 2011 1:49am
Quoting V4X
Hi Justin,

Can you explain this:

1. If this is ECN, how can you manipulate spread?

2. What are the exact "fees" (spread increase)? Is it 0.1 pip on all pairs? If I use live market orders only, is it more economically viable for me to use the FREE plan over current one (since I don't get paid for orders).

3. Do you still pay for rollovers, same % as in old plan?
V4X,

 

  1. ECN is the interaction of our customer orders with each other. As I’ve said, we don’t touch that. You can put up a limit, it displays in the quote at exactly that price, and other customers can hit the exact price. No mark-up by us. Your exact price, no costs either way. The liquidity providers beyond that are banks, which we connect to via an STP feed. That is what we are marking up and eliminating the routing fee for customers that prefer that option.
  2. You will be able to Demo and we will have pages on the site to compare spreads with other non-fee brokers. I think you will find them competitive.
  3. Yes, rollover/swaps is a banking/margin issue.

  • #8,198
  • Sep 30, 2011 1:57am Sep 30, 2011 1:57am
Quoting jleblang
Shrike, again, the fact that this is only MT4 for now doesn't mean that it is permanent. We wish MT4 had a market depth window too, but it isn't our software. and we can't embed one.
It just sounds like a bad idea, and a lot of unpleasantly surprised clients.

Me: clicks on 1.3535
Mt4: LOL its 1.3418 really, have fun with your fill

...
  • #8,199
  • Sep 30, 2011 3:02am Sep 30, 2011 3:02am
jleblang,

what bridge are you using?

And, please tell me, how is it possible for a TRUE ECN broker to use MT platform, which allows full manipulation of the market and the limit orders aren't going to to the ECN until they get filled as market orders?
  • #8,200
  • Sep 30, 2011 4:09am Sep 30, 2011 4:09am
Thanks for your answers, Justin.

- Will the same apply for the .UK division?
"Everyone gets what they want out of the market." -- Ed Seykota
0 traders viewing now