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Symphonie Trader System

  • #181
  • Sep 24, 2011 2:04pm Sep 24, 2011 2:04pm
Quoting Evaluator
ivanisevic,

Great Question!

I practice a very conservative MoneyManagement System. Once I place an order it has a 50pip stoploss. However, once the pip count exceeds 30pips positive I move the stoploss to 3pips in front of the order to protect from having any loss on the trade.

Yes, in whipsaw action I get stopped out more but I usually means the market is not ready to move in the direction of my order and I wait on new pricing action that normally mean my second order is at a better price than the first because the market was simply not...
Thanks for such a detailed explanation.

What pair and tf do you suggest in addition to EU/M5? Thanks.
  • #182
  • Edited 6:10pm Sep 24, 2011 3:43pm | Edited 6:10pm
Many people have been asking me over and over what are the entry and exit rules for this system. Also, how much should use when placing and order. Simply, I leave that up to you.

However, to better clearify my thoughts on the subject I sat down and put together this comprehensive report that I think will cover all your questions. It gives you Money Management though ARS, Entry Strategy, Order Account Balance Protection, and Exit Strategy.

I hope this is helpful and is provided as informational guidlines to assist you with your trading habits.

Money Management Strategy Rules and Guidelines

Proper Money Management skills are essential to becoming good and successful currency trader. Money management is by far the most important skill to master if you want to become successful at trading FOREX. Money management is simply a system you incorporate that will effectively preserve capital while you increase your profits. In other words a good system will help keep you from losing all of your money and help you make money.

Account Ratio System (ARS) and Order Sizing


It is important to maintain a proper account ratio system (ARS) based on the size of your total account balance. This is to ensure that your account does not get overextended and one suffers significant account losses or even a margin call on account causing one to lose all tradable capital in account. To properly do this one need to establish a ratio system based on the 10-1 ratio rule.


ARS basically states that for every 1000 in an account will be equal to one trade lot allowance of 0.10 lot. Therefore the maximum total trades for a 1000 account would be 0.10 lot(s). Based on this system you would maintain the following ratios.

ARS Ratio System
 1000 equals 0.10 lot(s)
2000 equals 0.20 lot(s)
3000 equals 0.30 lot(s)
4000 equals 0.40 lot(s)
5000 equals 0.50 lot(s)
6000 equals 0.60 lot(s)
7000 equals 0.70 lot(s)
8000 equals 0.80 lot(s)
9000 equals 0.90 lot(s)
10000 equals 1.00 lot(s)
etc….

However, this does not mean that one is only allowed to trade one order at a time. This system simply stated that the MAXIUMUM open orders do not exceed the ARS system ratios. So, if one had 5k in account the maximum number of mini lots cannot exceed the 0.50 ARS total. Orders could be organized in any combination desired.

EXAMPLE
5K equals ARS of 0.50 in total open orders
(any combination)
(5) 0.10 lots....
(3) 0.10 lots and (1) 0.20 lot….
(2)0.20 lots and (1) 0.10 lot….
(1)0.20 lot and (1) 0.30 lot….
(1)0.50 lot

Why do this? Because it will help you to preserve your account in-case of order loss and provide you with the comfort to know that even though you may take a StopLoss hit you will not be over leverages and lose your whole account through a margin call.

But the level of risk you wish to use is simply up to you. Using the ARS ration system will make one less nervous and more inclined to jump into an order than hesitate and lose position when the strategy system signals one to execute an order immediately.

Entry Points Strategy

The entry and exit strategy is simple. For placing an order one would wait until you have an extreme spike and the other 3 indicators show the same colour in the direction of the extreme spike. This is shown in the graph as position (A). To exit your order you let the market price action run its path until ,on the closing candlestick, there is an opposite extreme spike (spike with colour) that indicates a top or bottom extreme point has been reached. This is represented in the graph as position (B).
That’s it…. (see graph)






Order Account Balance Protection

For this system, I recommend practicing a very conservative order protection loss system. Once an order is executed, immediately assign the order a 50pip stoploss. If the market turns against you, you will only loose a small amount versus if there is no stoploss and it the market move is heavily against you if can be very costly with no stoploss.
The key is to protect your orders placed as much as possible in effort to minimize losses and maximize gains. Therefore, once the pip count exceeds 30pips positive (market moves 30pips in your favor), move the stoploss to 3pips in front of the order to protect from having any loss on the trade. This will ensure you have atleast a 3 pip profit if there is a sudden change in market conditions.

Yes, in whipsaw action one may get stopped out more often but in those cases it usually means the market is not ready to move in the direction of your order and you can wait on new pricing action that normally means a second entry order that is at a better price than the first because the market was simply not ready.

Exit Strategy

The system exit strategy is simple but here are three possible degrees of exit based on ones level of conservativeness or aggressiveness.

Exit Strategy One. (most conservative)

When the Cycle indicator shows an extreme spike (spike with colour) exit the trade at the close of that candlestick. This strategy makes sure that you get all the profit from a trade as the extreme points are reached in a movement. The downside to this strategy is you are exiting an order based on just one of the indicators which is the one that is prone to repaint. If the price action movement is stronger that the cycle extreme shows one would be exiting potentially at the first beginnings of a strong movement and will miss out of the entire movement.


Exit Strategy Two. (Moderate Aggressive)
When the Cycle indicator shows an extreme spike (spike with colour) exit one half of the trade at the close of that candlestick. This strategy makes sure that you get half of the profit from a trade as the extreme points are reached in a movement. The second half of the order would continue to run until the trendline changes colour. Once the trendline changed colour one would exit at the close of that candlestick. With this strategy half of your order has the potential to gain further if the price action movement is stronger than the extreme point indicated and you could reap the extra movement pips. The downside is that if the extreme is on target and rebounds could hit your 3 pip positive stoploss and loose half your profit.

Exit Strategy Three. (most aggressive) ‘’the Gambler’’
When the Cycle indicator shows an extreme spike (spike with colour) one would not exit the order and look to a second indicator (trendline) for the exit signal. Once the trendline colour changes, one would immediately exit the order at the close of that candlestick. With this strategy you have the potential for further gains if the price action movement is stronger than the extreme point indicated and you could reap all extra movement pips with a full order. The downside is that if the extreme is on target and rebounds the price action could hit your 3 pip positive stoploss and one would lose your potential profit.
Attached Image
  • #183
  • Sep 24, 2011 5:41pm Sep 24, 2011 5:41pm
Hi Eval,

Thanks for the clarification ! As the rules are pretty basic, we should make an EA out of this !! Do you ever asked Steve Hopwood ? I'm sure he should be very excited to code this.
#### Follow me at @LioH_ on Twitter ... ####
  • #184
  • Sep 24, 2011 6:18pm Sep 24, 2011 6:18pm
Quoting lhDT
Hi Eval,

Thanks for the clarification ! As the rules are pretty basic, we should make an EA out of this !! Do you ever asked Steve Hopwood ? I'm sure he should be very excited to code this.
lhDT,

Yes, I sent Steve a private message before I started this thread. But, he never responded. However, maybe you could have better luck contacting him to come and take a look at this thread and possibly turn this into an EA.

Good luck on your quest and please let us know the outcome.

eval.
  • #185
  • Sep 25, 2011 2:58am Sep 25, 2011 2:58am
Hi Evaluator

Thank you for the money management plan

Sorry if this is a silly question but im just trying to understand the money management side forex better and if I dont ask I will never know..

What level of leverage would I use with this..

Again apoligies for the question
Thank You James16, Fijitrader, Mbqb1, ghous, Pinbar and Jarroo. cpfleger
  • #186
  • Sep 25, 2011 3:10am Sep 25, 2011 3:10am
Hi Evaluator,

Thank you for posting this strategy, from your results it looks extremely positive.

My query that I would be obliged if you could clarify is to do with the exit involving the repainting Extreme Spike on the Cycle Indicator. You have made it clear in your posts that this indicator does repaint and indeed we all know that it does.

You state in your post #181 that for Exit Strategy One - 'When the Cycle indicator shows an extreme spike (spike with colour) exit the trade at the close of that candlestick' and you give an example in the EUR/USD chart.

However after watching the indicator live on Friday The Cycle Indicator will give a confirmed Extreme Spike with colour at the close of the candle BUT then could still repaint a couple of bars later (basically the colour disappears). So you would have exited the trade based on the Extreme Spike at the CLOSE of the candle but then a couple more candles later the colour on the Extreme Spike disappears or has repainted. The spike remains but it is now 'colourless'.

In your EUR/USD chart example colourless extreme spikes are shown but quite possibly for 2 to 3 bars after the close of the candle the Cycle Indicator would have still shown confirmed red coloured spikes AND then the colour would have disappeared (repainted).

In your LIVE demo trading how have you dealt with this situation?

Am I missing something here?

Just would appreciate your insight and understanding.

Many thanks again for sharing your great system.

David
  • #187
  • Sep 25, 2011 3:54am Sep 25, 2011 3:54am
Quoting Evaluator
lhDT,

Yes, I sent Steve a private message before I started this thread. But, he never responded. However, maybe you could have better luck contacting him to come and take a look at this thread and possibly turn this into an EA.

Good luck on your quest and please let us know the outcome.

eval.

I don't mind trading with a repainting indy under certain circumstances, but they make the creation of an effective ea very very difficult. Having said that - Steve has plenty of tricks up his sleeve that may help in making this profitable but i am sceptical.
Enter Signature
  • #188
  • Sep 25, 2011 4:31am Sep 25, 2011 4:31am
Many thanks to Evaluator and all contributors.

I came across this thread 24 hours ago and read all contributions twice.
My eyeball checks give me the impression that this could be the closest to Holy Grail of all the systems I encountered.

I am considering play this system on higher time frames, such as H4 and D1, simply because I hate to feel my heart beating as in road races.

Quoting Evaluator
lhDT,

Yes, I sent Steve a private message before I started this thread. But, he never responded. However, maybe you could have better luck contacting him to come and take a look at this thread and possibly turn this into an EA.

Good luck on your quest and please let us know the outcome.

eval.
  • #189
  • Sep 25, 2011 4:49am Sep 25, 2011 4:49am
Quoting mark0529
Many thanks to Evaluator and all contributors.

I came across this thread 24 hours ago and read all contributions twice.
My eyeball checks give me the impression that this could be the closest to Holy Grail of all the systems I encountered.

I am considering play this system on higher time frames, such as H4 and D1, simply because I hate to feel my heart beating as in road races.

Don't expect too much from visual backtesting of repainting indy's - they will always look amazing.

Having said that i am finding this system reasonably robust - mostly due to the combining of lagging and leading indy's in quite an effective way.
Enter Signature
  • #190
  • Sep 25, 2011 5:48am Sep 25, 2011 5:48am
Thanks a lot for reminding me of the risk of relying on an indicator that repaints.

For such a risk, however, I am focusing on long timeframes like H1 and H4.

Quoting Sarythsaya
Don't expect too much from visual backtesting of repainting indy's - they will always look amazing.

Having said that i am finding this system reasonably robust - mostly due to the combining of lagging and leading indy's in quite an effective way.
  • #191
  • Sep 25, 2011 6:06am Sep 25, 2011 6:06am
Quoting mark0529
Thanks a lot for reminding me of the risk of relying on an indicator that repaints.

For such a risk, however, I am focusing on long timeframes like H1 and H4.
+
if an indicator repaints, you can delete it right away
/ ... clarifying decisions ... /
  • #192
  • Sep 25, 2011 6:14am Sep 25, 2011 6:14am
Quoting walb99
+
if an indicator repaints, you can delete it right away
Yes, it's true. That's a thought. Will see.
  • #193
  • Edited 7:48am Sep 25, 2011 6:26am | Edited 7:48am
SEFC Bulls-Baers is repainting - here is the proof
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 2011-09-25 13.23.gif Size: 21 KB
/ ... clarifying decisions ... /
  • #194
  • Sep 25, 2011 10:00am Sep 25, 2011 10:00am
Quoting walb99
SEFC Bulls-Baers is repainting - here is the proof
That's the reason why you don't rely on only one indicator but wait until all four are in the same direction.
And for this particular case, I'm always very cautious to enter right after a big candle because you can have a powerful pullback afterwards that can touch your stoploss when it is tight.

To IhDT: van het Vlaams sprekende deel van Brussel ou du partie française?
  • #195
  • Sep 25, 2011 11:31am Sep 25, 2011 11:31am
Quoting FastForex
That's the reason why you don't rely on only one indicator but wait until all four are in the same direction.
And for this particular case, I'm always very cautious to enter right after a big candle because you can have a powerful pullback afterwards that can touch your stoploss when it is tight.

To IhDT: van het Vlaams sprekende deel van Brussel ou du partie française?
I think this system can work pretty well even in the case in question as long as we stick to the rule of all four indicators poiniting to the same trend.

The repainting indicator tells us nothing but to wait for the other three to get together in one direction. That's my understanding.
  • #196
  • Edited 2:25pm Sep 25, 2011 12:27pm | Edited 2:25pm
Quoting ivanisevic
Thanks for such a detailed explanation.

What pair and tf do you suggest in addition to EU/M5? Thanks.

ivanisevic,

Great question. I personally like the 1hr timeframe because the indicators tend to NOT repaint in the 1hr. The market moves tend to be solitified in the 1hr timeframe.

I know your next question. What the $§&%$ why are you posting all this in 5 min???

Answer: I began this thread in 1 hr but people kept saying it repaint in 5 min. so I began testing in 5min and just never left because I was trying to get the system to fail. From there it just snowballed and I never left 5min.

It seems to me it works quite well in 5min even with the repaints. If you follow the rules of the 4 indicators.

As I said in post#1 one can use this system with any currency pair and in any timeframe.(exception 1min. that is too fast for me)

Hope that clears thing up.

eval.
  • #197
  • Sep 25, 2011 12:30pm Sep 25, 2011 12:30pm
Quoting Seabreeze
Hi Evaluator

Thank you for the money management plan

Sorry if this is a silly question but im just trying to understand the money management side forex better and if I dont ask I will never know..

What level of leverage would I use with this..

Again apoligies for the question

Seabreeze,

Thank you for the question.

Answer; for my demo account I started with this thread 1:500 for my real account I run along side this one 1:300.

eval.
  • #198
  • Edited 1:03pm Sep 25, 2011 12:38pm | Edited 1:03pm
Quoting Bazuka77
Hi Evaluator,

Thank you for posting this strategy, from your results it looks extremely positive.

My query that I would be obliged if you could clarify is to do with the exit involving the repainting Extreme Spike on the Cycle Indicator. You have made it clear in your posts that this indicator does repaint and indeed we all know that it does.

You state in your post #181 that for Exit Strategy One - 'When the Cycle indicator shows an extreme spike (spike with colour) exit the trade at the close of that candlestick' and you give an example...
Bazuka77,

I believe I addressed that in post #181 as well. You need to reread the second half of the exit strategy. I post here for you:


Exit Strategy One. (most conservative)

When the Cycle indicator shows an extreme spike (spike with colour) exit the trade at the close of that candlestick. This strategy makes sure that you get all the profit from a trade as the extreme points are reached in a movement. SECOND PART The downside to this strategy is you are exiting an order based on just one of the indicators which is the one that is prone to repaint. If the price action movement is stronger that the cycle extreme shows one would be exiting potentially at the first beginnings of a strong movement and will miss out of the entire movement.

As you can see from the second part I did address the repaint issue. That is why I labled this (most conservative) because you simply exit your position at the candlestick close of a extreme spike with colour. If it repaint then you would lose the additional profit potnetial. ( i think they call that leaving money on the table) But who cares you have made money and will make money again.

If you are unhappy with that exit strategy then I laided out 2 others to choise from.

Not trying to sound sarcastic but, I did lay it out pretty complete if you go back and reread.

eval.
  • #199
  • Sep 25, 2011 12:44pm Sep 25, 2011 12:44pm
Quoting mark0529
Many thanks to Evaluator and all contributors.

I came across this thread 24 hours ago and read all contributions twice.
My eyeball checks give me the impression that this could be the closest to Holy Grail of all the systems I encountered.

I am considering play this system on higher time frames, such as H4 and D1, simply because I hate to feel my heart beating as in road races.

mark0529,

You are quite welcome and thank you for your comments.

I think you will be less nervous if you first play with demo account than real dollars. It is important to feel confident in a system first before adding the effects of human emotion into a system. Human fear and greed have been the cause of many people blowing accounts. Remember ''practice make perfect'' so practice, practice, practice, practice with demo dollars!

Second, re read post #181 and if you employ a proper MONEY MANAGEMENT strategy and a proper ARS (account ratio system) I think you will feel more secure in your trading.

Just a thought.

Good luck,

eval
  • #200
  • Sep 25, 2011 12:44pm Sep 25, 2011 12:44pm
Quoting Evaluator
Seabreeze,

Thank you for the question.

Answer; for my demo account I started with this thread 1:500 for my real account I run along side this one 1:300.

eval.
Eval, thank you for posting your seemingly viable system. Your thread has been drawing so much attention. I see traders helping each other. That's good.
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