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CHOROS System

  • #6,361
  • Sep 12, 2011 11:02am Sep 12, 2011 11:02am
Quoting asos101
... find a couple of good setups, enter at a good place and accept the profits they give you, because they will...
Thank you for sharing asos101
  • #6,362
  • Sep 12, 2011 11:04am Sep 12, 2011 11:04am
Quoting asos101
instead of shooting blindly here and there (i dont name names, ahem.. kk007), find a couple of good setups, enter at a good place and accept the profits they give you, because they will.
I agree 110% with this statement. In fact I am more comfortable doing it then taking half baked setups.
Riding the order flow
  • #6,363
  • Sep 12, 2011 11:21am Sep 12, 2011 11:21am
Quoting asos101
instead of shooting blindly here and there (i dont name names, ahem.. kk007), find a couple of good setups, enter at a good place and accept the profits they give you, because they will.
Just realized, I am named here...

Perhaps, it is something difficult for other to understand:

I've realized very early on that one of my biggest weakness is fear. I am not making up anything, when I first began, I watched the MT4 all the day and felt too scary to pull the trigger on a Demo account. I felt sick and had some aniexty disorder symptons, could not sleep well, very poor appetite, etc. Now, I get in and get out a lot with a Demo account without strong emotion (even when sometimes I have 90% failure rate). This already a big achievement for me.
  • #6,364
  • Sep 12, 2011 11:29am Sep 12, 2011 11:29am
Quoting kk007
Just realized, I am named here...

Perhaps, it is something difficult for other to understand:
Maybe this will help, I will feel just as fearful taking trades if I don't know the historical results. What I do is backtest at least for half a decade. For mechanical strat is very easy but for my version of choros I did it for 4 pairs(GY, GU, EU, AU) for the past 5 years. it takes some work but I need to do it. So when I take the trade I care not if it win or lose because I just know I will win eventually. Sorry if it doesn't help.
Riding the order flow
  • #6,365
  • Sep 12, 2011 11:33am Sep 12, 2011 11:33am
Quoting kk007
Just realized, I am named here...

Perhaps, it is something difficult for other to understand:

I've realized very early on that one of my biggest weakness is fear. I am not making up anything, when I first began, I watched the MT4 all the day and felt too scary to pull the trigger on a Demo account. I felt sick and had some aniexty disorder symptons, could not sleep well, very poor appetite, etc. Now, I get in and get out a lot with a Demo account without strong emotion (even when sometimes I have 90% failure rate). This already a big achievement...
I can understand your position here, what you're trying to do is getting in and out, assuming losses like there's no tomorrow so you get your psyche used to take a loss with no emotional reaction at all. I can relate to this and I can understand it, you are trying to make yourself numb out of loosing constantly on demo...

What I can say and I think asos was trying to tell you too is that getting proper entries that will very probably give you some positive pips, and then looking at all this positive entries in a row could do wonders for your psychology... if you decide to give this a try and enter proper trades don't get discouraged by your results, just keep on going (you're numb to losses now) this phrase from Trading in the Zone might help you with achieving this:
(get in a trade) "Expecting a positive result from your efforts, with an acceptance that whatever results you get are a perfect reflection of your level of development and what you need to learn to do better"
Flp. 4:13
  • #6,366
  • Sep 12, 2011 12:01pm Sep 12, 2011 12:01pm
Quoting Binyamin
Maybe this will help, I will feel just as fearful taking trades if I don't know the historical results. What I do is backtest at least for half a decade. For mechanical strat is very easy but for my version of choros I did it for 4 pairs(GY, GU, EU, AU) for the past 5 years. it takes some work but I need to do it. So when I take the trade I care not if it win or lose because I just know I will win eventually. Sorry if it doesn't help.
There are still some difference between backtesting and demotrading. I don't know how you check multiple TF with the simulator, also the speed of simulator is adjustable, news times have to be double checked. I would rather spend time on real-time demo-trading. Yes, know eventually win in the long run will help, but real-time discretion making can still be stressful. After all, my fear in the beginning is just irrational.
  • #6,367
  • Sep 12, 2011 12:08pm Sep 12, 2011 12:08pm
Quoting Anthar
I can understand your position here, what you're trying to do is getting in and out, assuming losses like there's no tomorrow so you get your psyche used to take a loss with no emotional reaction at all. I can relate to this and I can understand it, you are trying to make yourself numb out of loosing constantly on demo...

What I can say and I think asos was trying to tell you too is that getting proper entries that will very probably give you some positive pips, and then looking at all this positive entries in a row could do wonders for your psychology......
Yes, you are right, I am trying to numb myself out of losing. To be more precise, I am trying to numb myself out of the stress of trading.

Another purpose is to learn through making mistakes. If I made 20 trades and all failed on a day, when I reviewed mistakes made in this failure trades, I would learn a lot. If I made 3 trades with 2 winners and 1 loser on a day, I would only learn the lesson of a failed example.

I know this approach is not consistent with what is taught on this thread. So, this strategy may be just for me.
  • #6,368
  • Sep 12, 2011 12:21pm Sep 12, 2011 12:21pm
Quoting kk007
There are still some difference between backtesting and demotrading. I don't know how you check multiple TF with the simulator, also the speed of simulator is adjustable, news times have to be double checked....
exactly, trading the M15 lone not knowing if news is around the corner and still being profitable reinforces your belief that in demo or live you will do better. the only problem is the time span you need to be in front of the screen.

by the way, i dont try to pick on you (or anyone else).. please dont ever think of that. but i try to help. because very recently i had the same problems, but i took the time the last 3 months to restructure my views about trading. that was it, a complete shift in my trading by doing the same old trades.

anyway, in the interactive thread you may missed it but i asked what are you affraid of? losing? being wrong or loss of capital?
lets try to solve it bit by bit.
  • #6,369
  • Sep 12, 2011 12:42pm Sep 12, 2011 12:42pm
Quoting kk007
Yes, you are right, I am trying to numb myself out of losing. To be more precise, I am trying to numb myself out of the stress of trading.

Another purpose is to learn through making mistakes. If I made 20 trades and all failed on a day, when I reviewed mistakes made in this failure trades, I would learn a lot. If I made 3 trades with 2 winners and 1 loser on a day, I would only learn the lesson of a failed example.

I know this approach is not consistent with what is taught on this thread. So, this strategy may be just for me.
This is just my humble opinion mate, don't take it as nothing else, but I strongly believe you CAN learn from your losses WHEN you enter trades following some rules, in the way of a method that will offer you setups that will likely go the way the probabilistic expectancy says... so if PA doesn't go your way or hits your SL, THEN you can analyse this entry and take note of the possible factors that made this a losing trade... BUT if you have no set of rules to get in a trade and just take random or experimental entries, based on what factors will you analyse the loss in order to learn a lesson from it??

I hope I explained that clear enough and remember I'm not telling you to stop doing this or that, merely offering my opinion... it's nice to exchange opinions
Flp. 4:13
  • #6,370
  • Sep 12, 2011 1:10pm Sep 12, 2011 1:10pm
Quoting kk007
There are still some difference between backtesting and demotrading. I don't know how you check multiple TF with the simulator, also the speed of simulator is adjustable, news times have to be double checked. I would rather spend time on real-time demo-trading. Yes, know eventually win in the long run will help, but real-time discretion making can still be stressful. After all, my fear in the beginning is just irrational.
I don't use simulator, just MT4 and an excel sheet bar by bar.
Riding the order flow
  • #6,371
  • Sep 12, 2011 1:25pm Sep 12, 2011 1:25pm
The following quote if from the CHOROS Interactive thread.
Quoting kostas1
...which will be a 2bar retrace to the H4/10 so I expect a good bounce. I recommend watching at least the M5 for good signs of reaction there.
H4 10 bounces rule, definitely a setup that we must remember.

I have to admit that my entry today was far from perfect, I should have waited for the touch of the H4 10, but EU left me waiting many times last week so this time I got in a little early, but since it was close to a good H4 10 setup I ended getting +32p. If you see the charts now you will see that EU is giving more than 100 pips after the touch of the H4 10, but the truth is that getting 30 pips is more than enough.

I’m not an expert; I’m learning a lot form this thread. I wasn’t able to place good touch trades some time ago but now I´m focusing mainly on the following “touch” setups with good success:

H4 10 in confluence with H1 35/50

Or

H1 10 in confluence with M15 35/50

Of course reasonably steep and parallel MAs are a must, and in both cases I also look for confluence with S/R levels like Pivots, PPA or RN, especially on H1 10 touches.

On the H1 10 touch setup, I’m following Kostas example to get 10 to 15 pips. If the setup has a nice shape, happens at an S/R level like Daily Pivot or something, it's possible to enter with only around 10 pip Stop Loss. I usually risk 2% of my account in a trade (Some times more ), so risking 2% in 10 pips SL would mean 2% account growth if I get +10p or 3% growth if I get +15p. Make two or three of those trades and you can get 3% to 9%.

Some try to make that daily, but I’m succeeding on making it weekly.

Making only around 6 to 8 trades a week, some BE some Losers, I can make around 10% weekly, in four weeks a month that could be 40% monthly, but I’m realistic with my limitations so my target is 30% monthly and I´m happy to tell that I was able to get there consistently for 4 consecutive months. I’m live trading micro-lots for now, but hopefully that will change soon.

The truth is that if you are able to profit 30% monthly consistently, you can turn 5000 USD into 100.000 USD in a year.

These CHOROS/Dance threads are very valuable. Do not give up.
  • #6,372
  • Sep 12, 2011 1:32pm Sep 12, 2011 1:32pm
Quoting Haydel
The following quote if from the CHOROS Interactive thread.


H4 10 bounces rule, definitely a setup that we must remember.

I have to admit that my entry today was far from perfect, I should have waited for the touch of the H4 10, but EU left me waiting many times last week so this time I got in a little early, but since it was close to a good H4 10 setup I ended getting +32p. If you see the charts now you will see that EU is giving more than 100 pips after the...
Your posts give me a moral boost, lol. I know my performance depends solely on me and everyone else's succes is no guarantee of good performance for me, but I just had a beating today as I took a short on EU exactly on a retracement and ended -30 pips for today, even when most of my entries could've given me +20 pips or more... this is one of those days I say "if I had only..." So reading your posts makes me think , well if anybody (besides Kostas, lol) is getting great results I might get them too... btw this 30 pips loss was like 0.3% of my acct.
Flp. 4:13
  • #6,373
  • Sep 12, 2011 3:13pm Sep 12, 2011 3:13pm
Quoting Haydel
I´m focusing mainly on the following “touch” setups with good success:

I usually risk 2% of my account in a trade (Some times more ).

Making only around 6 to 8 trades a week, some BE some Losers, I can make around 10% weekly, in four weeks a month that could be 40% monthly, but I’m realistic with my limitations so my target is 30% monthly
I've highlighted why Haydel will succeed in this. He has a PLAN! Do not underestimate how important this is. Write down your targets & rules and FOLLOW them.
  • #6,374
  • Sep 12, 2011 7:35pm Sep 12, 2011 7:35pm
Quoting kostas1
I've highlighted why Haydel will succeed in this. He has a PLAN! Do not underestimate how important this is. Write down your targets & rules and FOLLOW them.
Thank you Kostas1, that’s encouraging
  • #6,375
  • Edited 9:54pm Sep 12, 2011 9:40pm | Edited 9:54pm
Quoting asos101
exactly, trading the M15 lone not knowing if news is around the corner and still being profitable reinforces your belief that in demo or live you will do better. the only problem is the time span you need to be in front of the screen.

by the way, i dont try to pick on you (or anyone else).. please dont ever think of that. but i try to help. because very recently i had the same problems, but i took the time the last 3 months to restructure my views about trading. that was it, a complete shift in my trading by doing the same old trades.

[color=Red]anyway,...
It is not a rational thing, there is no reason at all. Not even any negative self-talk observed. Just feeling very uncomfortable. You know there is no capital in a Demo account. If one blow one up, just open another.
  • #6,376
  • Sep 12, 2011 9:44pm Sep 12, 2011 9:44pm
Quoting Anthar
This is just my humble opinion mate, don't take it as nothing else, but I strongly believe you CAN learn from your losses WHEN you enter trades following some rules, in the way of a method that will offer you setups that will likely go the way the probabilistic expectancy says... so if PA doesn't go your way or hits your SL, THEN you can analyse this entry and take note of the possible factors that made this a losing trade... BUT if you have no set of rules to get in a trade and just take random or experimental entries, based on what factors will...
I try to put it this way: to have a high-prob trade, one may have to consider 3 or more factors to enter. When I take a lot of trades these days, I enter a trade based only one 1 or 2 factors, after the loss, I realise I missed something that I should have considered. So I learn from it.
  • #6,377
  • Sep 13, 2011 12:05am Sep 13, 2011 12:05am
For Choros, my goal is simple, to make 0.5% per day. For the last 3 weeks 4 days I have been averaging 0.93% per day instead of 0.5% with 0.5% risk per trade. I hope to trade more markets including futures and reduce my risk pertrade to 0.25% per trade or lower while maintaining the daily goal. My goal is to be an ultra low risk but high percentage trader. This stats are from trading choros related trades on the H1, 15M and 30M.
Riding the order flow
  • #6,378
  • Sep 13, 2011 12:48am Sep 13, 2011 12:48am
Quoting Binyamin
For Choros, my goal is simple, to make 0.5% per day. For the last 3 weeks 4 days I have been averaging 0.93% per day instead of 0.5% with 0.5% risk per trade. I hope to trade more markets including futures and reduce my risk pertrade to 0.25% per trade or lower while maintaining the daily goal. My goal is to be an ultra low risk but high percentage trader. This stats are from trading choros related trades on the H1, 15M and 30M.
This doesn't add up. If your goal is 0.5% a day, you would not be able to get 0.93% per day. If your goal is 0.5% a day, you would end a day after having one winner.
  • #6,379
  • Sep 13, 2011 1:47am Sep 13, 2011 1:47am
Here is a classic 15m 35/50 trade. The 35sma wasn't pointing up, but I was confident because price had moved through both 35/50 in one bar, and it was confluenced with the 5m 200 and 1h 20sma, as well as the RN. Took profit in 2 stages. Total profit 27 pips.

http://i52.tinypic.com/ngbss2.png
  • #6,380
  • Sep 13, 2011 1:56am Sep 13, 2011 1:56am
Quoting Greenhill
Here is a classic 15m 35/50 trade. The 35sma wasn't pointing up, but I was confident because price had moved through both 35/50 in one bar, and it was confluenced with the 5m 200 and 1h 20sma, as well as the RN. Took profit in 2 stages. Total profit 27 pips.
Good one, I hesitated and I lost the upswing (I was targeting the H1 50 ping-pong).
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