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  • #536,661
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:27am Sep 9, 2011 11:27am
Quoting cloggie
Hedging is just lying to yourself, it is the fear of admitting that your entries or your trendspotting suck and that you would rather just open a trade in the opposite direction instead of being honest to yourself and learn how to trade.

Stop hedging and you will stop lying to yourself. But heck I could not give a toss if everyone here hedges, it just means that none of them can trade and I can just take their money with a clear conscious.
We just have different strategies mate.

I've done this for many times, and truthfully I am a swing trader. I was just scalping and swinging at the same time!
Have I got something on my face, SOLDIER?
  • #536,662
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:29am Sep 9, 2011 11:29am
Quoting bumapatria
We just have different strategies mate.

I've done this for many times, and truthfully I am a swing trader. I was just scalping and swinging at the same time!

As soon as you scalp opposite your swing trade, you are missing the opportunity to close that swing trade and get in at a better price, while still scalping the counter of your swing, no matter how you try to justify it, that will always be more profitable then having 2 opposing trades open at the same time in the same instrument.


But like I said, I could not give a toss what you do.


Hedging is not a strategy, it is living a lie.
  • #536,663
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:31am Sep 9, 2011 11:31am
Quote, cloggie:
-------------------
Hedging is just lying to yourself, it is the fear of admitting that your entries or your trendspotting suck and that you would rather just open a trade in the opposite direction instead of learning how to trade.

Stop hedging and you will stop lying to yourself. But heck I could not give a toss if everyone here hedges, it just means that none of them can trade and I can just take their money with a clear conscious.
-------------------

What are you? Related to someone at the overreaching, over-regulating CFTC?

The context is a little wider than you suggest. And if you ever become such as good trader as to express yourself this way, it will be because you've tried many more things than it appears you have.

The real issue though is freedom. No one needs a government agency telling them what decisions to make.
  • #536,664
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:31am Sep 9, 2011 11:31am
2 ladies have pierced thier supports, a start I suppose, more new lows would be nice, or am I being greedy
If you are new to Forex? Say Goodbye to your account!!
  • #536,665
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:32am Sep 9, 2011 11:32am
Quoting Tellerton
Quote, cloggie:
-------------------
Hedging is just lying to yourself, it is the fear of admitting that your entries or your trendspotting suck and that you would rather just open a trade in the opposite direction instead of learning how to trade.

Stop hedging and you will stop lying to yourself. But heck I could not give a toss if everyone here hedges, it just means that none of them can trade and I can just take their money with a clear conscious.
-------------------

What are you? Related to someone at the overreaching, over-regulating...

I am a big fan of the CFTC rules and posters here that know me know that I feel that they have not gone far enough.

I want to see 10:1 or less leverage and min account size of 250k-500k. That is the only way to protect muppets from themselves.

Why do 70-80% of the retailers fail? Because they have no business being in this business in the first place.

Too many idiots with 2000 dollar accounts and 200:1 leverage think they are traders.
  • #536,666
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:33am Sep 9, 2011 11:33am
Quoting cloggie
Hedge? Just figure out what direction we are going and trade in that direction. It ain't rocket science, hedging just means you have no freakin clue what the markets are doing and you want to be in something.

If price goes down, you sell, if it goes up you buy. Why the heck would you buy and sell at the same time? You are just lying to yourself and hiding from your inadequacy as a trader.

Only a muppet who can't trade for shit hedges, proper traders know where we are going and sticking to that direction.

Why the heck would I want to buy...
Thanks Cloggie. But you got the wrong guy. Tellerton was asking to hedge. I was only lending a helping hand. My broker is GFT-US and I'm sure you know the rest.

But all the same, I guess some still stay successful with hedging. But it's not ma thing.
Don't just beat the markets, leave bruises.
  • #536,667
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:34am Sep 9, 2011 11:34am
cloggie,

Have you gone through a learning process as a trader, or did you become a trader such as you may be by having someone just tell you about deceit and walk away?
  • #536,668
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:35am Sep 9, 2011 11:35am
Quoting Tellerton
Quote, cloggie:
-------------------
Hedging is just lying to yourself, it is the fear of admitting that your entries or your trendspotting suck and that you would rather just open a trade in the opposite direction instead of learning how to trade.

Stop hedging and you will stop lying to yourself. But heck I could not give a toss if everyone here hedges, it just means that none of them can trade and I can just take their money with a clear conscious.
-------------------

What are you? Related to someone at the overreaching, over-regulating...
Cloggie has a point. I'm a swing trader, i take one position only. I was just scared of the market i guess.
Have I got something on my face, SOLDIER?
  • #536,669
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:37am Sep 9, 2011 11:37am
Do think that would force the average trader to place enough trades per day?

How about placing 10 times as many and using 1:1 leverage?

The truth about leverage is that the lower it is the more trades you must make. The more trades you must make the lower the probability of success on each trade.

A bit like carny game ey?
  • #536,670
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:37am Sep 9, 2011 11:37am
Quoting bumapatria
Cloggie has a point. I'm a swing trader, i take one position only. I was just scared of the market i guess.

My point is simple, learn to trade. Don't go hiding behind opposing positions to make up for your shortcomings. Admit to yourself that you are not good enough and try to make up for it by just entering in the opposite direction.

Forget about hedging. Focus on your trading instead.
  • #536,671
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:38am Sep 9, 2011 11:38am
Quoting Tellerton
Quote: cloggie
--------------------
Only a muppet who can't trade for shit hedges, proper traders know where we are going and sticking to that direction.
--------------------

Quite true!

But then that fits the description of most newbi's who get into a position and wait too long to judge that it is baaaad. Hedging is a second chance while you're learning.

Not a guarantee, but a chance.
That's the coolest thing I've heard all week. Are you a newbie trader or a newbie FFer?
Don't just beat the markets, leave bruises.
  • #536,672
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:38am Sep 9, 2011 11:38am
So Cloggie does care about us noobs. Could this be the other side of Cloggie?
Because it's a bit scary....
  • #536,673
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:39am Sep 9, 2011 11:39am
Quoting cloggie
Hedging is just lying to yourself, it is the fear of admitting that your entries or your trendspotting suck and that you would rather just open a trade in the opposite direction instead of being honest to yourself and learn how to trade.

Stop hedging and you will stop lying to yourself. But heck I could not give a toss if everyone here hedges, it just means that none of them can trade and I can just take their money with a clear conscious.
100%
When life gives you lemons, make lemonade
  • #536,674
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:40am Sep 9, 2011 11:40am
Quoting Mario Inc.
So Cloggie does care about us noobs. Could this be the other side of Cloggie?
Because it's a bit scary....

I cleared my book, it is that time Friday and am watching TV so had a bit of time.

Noobies don't seem to see hedging for what it really is. The few that can be honest with themselves will have started thinking about what I am saying already.

Those that still argue in favour of hedging, never will and will continue to lie to themselves.


Ah well, DILLIGAF.
  • #536,675
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:45am Sep 9, 2011 11:45am
Quote bumapatria:
---------------------
Cloggie has a point. I'm a swing trader, i take one position only. I was just scared of the market i guess.
---------------------

We might not be talking about the same thing.

Hedging, as it was used by newcomers at one time, made it possible to enter a "state of grace" where an extended stop run could be survived, maybe. At least you had a chance to come out of the hedge when the retrace finally materialized.

But it was very simple: you simply opened an equal and opposite position in the same pair. Now, you need twice the money, and it's a bit more complicated, THANKS TO THE CFTC. (there is a long story of deceit behind this)

Anyway, it was simple to do.

And, yes cloggie, I agree that any EXPERIENCED trader who uses hedging is not a real trader of any sort.
  • #536,676
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:45am Sep 9, 2011 11:45am
Quoting cloggie
I cleared my book, it is that time Friday and am watching TV so had a bit of time.

Noobies don't seem to see hedging for what it really is. The few that can be honest with themselves will have started thinking about what I am saying already.

Those that still argue in favour of hedging, never will and will continue to lie to themselves.


Ah well, DILLIGAF.
Hey cloggie, i know you're one of the 'big men' here in FF, and i guess i need to open up my ears and listen. I'm sure you've had much more trading experience than me, so thanks for the criticism and advise, even though it was quite harsh. Thank you.
Have I got something on my face, SOLDIER?
  • #536,677
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:45am Sep 9, 2011 11:45am
Quoting KiwiTrada
2 ladies have pierced thier supports, a start I suppose, more new lows would be nice, or am I being greedy
4 new lows out of 6, looking better, big supports, but seller still hungry
nibble nibble
If you are new to Forex? Say Goodbye to your account!!
  • #536,678
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:45am Sep 9, 2011 11:45am
Quoting johnnyrei
Btw another try for long here
Can you please stop trying longs...just close your charts and go and enjoy the friday.

BTW micho, closed all my shorts already. Market just crossed 309 in points for the daily range which is way more than double the 10 day ATR. Gotta go back to programming.

Enjoy your weekend everyone.
Don't just beat the markets, leave bruises.
  • #536,679
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:46am Sep 9, 2011 11:46am
Quoting Tellerton
And, yes cloggie, I agree that any EXPERIENCED trader who uses hedging is not a real trader of any sort.

An inexperienced noobie that uses "hedging" to mask his inability to trade will never become experienced.
  • #536,680
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:49am Sep 9, 2011 11:49am
if anybody missed the train today and wants to join, sell eurusd at around 1.3664 if we go back up there, stop loss 1.3735, target 1.3492...

i won't add to my positions now........... trade at your own risk
When life gives you lemons, make lemonade
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