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CHOROS System

  • #6,301
  • Sep 8, 2011 12:29am Sep 8, 2011 12:29am
i am not sure if this is happening to anyone using visual order editor. for example today, i was short GU and wanted to increase my SL by moving the SL line. however, it wasnt responding (it didnt change my SL) and i got stopped out about 10 seconds later (if my stop loss was half a pip bigger, i would make juicy profit). not sure why this is happening, but i might need to change visual order editor for something else. again it doesnt happen all the time but when it does, it drives me crazy.
  • #6,302
  • Sep 8, 2011 12:41am Sep 8, 2011 12:41am
Look at the Journal tab, it may say what's the reason, but in most cases that's broker limits.
  • #6,303
  • Sep 8, 2011 1:17am Sep 8, 2011 1:17am
Quoting tonny47
i am not sure if this is happening to anyone using visual order editor. for example today, i was short GU and wanted to increase my SL by moving the SL line. however, it wasnt responding (it didnt change my SL) and i got stopped out about 10 seconds later (if my stop loss was half a pip bigger, i would make juicy profit). not sure why this is happening, but i might need to change visual order editor for something else. again it doesnt happen all the time but when it does, it drives me crazy.
Had that happen to me also.
As I mentioned earlier, the last few months I am using Sangmane's excellent tool which was based on an idea I had few months back:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...17#post4475717
  • #6,304
  • Sep 8, 2011 1:19am Sep 8, 2011 1:19am
Buddy,

I think you are perfectly right and it is sure you are on the right path to success. I have been found these behaviours very long time ago, but in real operation, for a number of operational reasons, I failed a lot in the beginning. However, I am sure it is the way to go.

Best wishes,
kk007

Quoting Binyamin
I've been doing this quite consistently, I enter the choros trade(touch constrainment whatever) at a buy/sell stop order after a price action unfolds, bull bear engulfing, Double top Lower close, inside bar and pin bars. I exit my first half at the next previous price concentration where there are a lot of wicks. I move the 2nd to BE. My second half I try to let it ride. But usually get stopped out at BE. But when it wins I have been getting it out at an RR of at least 5. Once it went to 12. And historically I have seen one going over 20. On my...
  • #6,305
  • Sep 8, 2011 1:44am Sep 8, 2011 1:44am
Quoting kk007
Buddy,

I think you are perfectly right and it is sure you are on the right path to success. I have been found these behaviours very long time ago, but in real operation, for a number of operational reasons, I failed a lot in the beginning. However, I am sure it is the way to go.

Best wishes,
kk007

Cheers, I do think most of you know it at least intuitively. I am actually curious to know if a losing trader in this strat can start making money after knowing this. I wrote it mainly for the ones relatively new to discretionary trading so that they don't have to wonder like I did why their trades are not consistent. I didn't mention, I have manually back tested 1 of my mechanical trend following system using the principals I mention and the results were, well lets just say profit to draw down was a lot better. Looks like I will be taking trades manually from now on.....
Riding the order flow
  • #6,306
  • Sep 8, 2011 2:03am Sep 8, 2011 2:03am
Quoting messiahua
Look at the Journal tab, it may say what's the reason, but in most cases that's broker limits.
hmmm, it shows that i tried to modify the order and change SL but by the time it was accepted, i was stopped out
  • #6,307
  • Sep 8, 2011 2:07am Sep 8, 2011 2:07am
Quoting kostas1
Had that happen to me also.
As I mentioned earlier, the last few months I am using Sangmane's excellent tool which was based on an idea I had few months back:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...17#post4475717
thanks Kostas,

i have been using tool you are suggesting but not sure if this is just settings but i had to click 3 times to confirm the order. that was the reason i switched to visual order.

will check it out again
  • #6,308
  • Sep 8, 2011 3:52am Sep 8, 2011 3:52am
Kosta, if i may ask what advantage did you find over the visual editor?
  • #6,309
  • Edited 7:37am Sep 8, 2011 7:12am | Edited 7:37am
Two trades so far this morning. Both shown on 15m chart. C&C welcome.

First was a winner: saw confluence on H1 of the E50 + RN + previous wick + ~50% retrace on M15 of the last big move + scoop up H4 E10, so I entered. Limit order was the blue box, got filled, first half hit TP @ 1:1, trailed SL on second half. Looking at it now, I should have trailed it up to xx27 or so, but I don't know why I didn't? I think I got distracted. Anyway, that SL got hit at the same time as what I thought was a two-bar retrace to E10 on M15, so...

Second trade was a loser: market orders entered with 12p stops (2.7p spread included) right after the trailed SL from #1 was hit, but price bounced off my stops and is now a little above where I entered. Not the best trade, and I have to admit I wanted to be in the market, which only helped me push the button.

In hindsight, perhaps waiting for the E10 H4 scoop-up to pan out (and not entering the second trade) would have been a better idea than trailing the stop on the first trade. Another option would have been exiting the second half of the first trade at previous resistance. Still working on taking the money and running...
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Hindsight is 20/20
  • #6,310
  • Sep 8, 2011 7:23am Sep 8, 2011 7:23am
This is why I'd rather have both pairs going the same way
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Flp. 4:13
  • #6,311
  • Sep 8, 2011 8:37am Sep 8, 2011 8:37am
Quoting asos101
Kosta, if i may ask what advantage did you find over the visual editor?
Main reason is that it uses only a small front-end window so that it doesn't cover my charts. Otherwise, moving the SL/TP lines is the same.
  • #6,312
  • Edited 1:34pm Sep 8, 2011 1:16pm | Edited 1:34pm
Quoting kostas1
Had that happen to me also.
As I mentioned earlier, the last few months I am using Sangmane's excellent tool which was based on an idea I had few months back:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...17#post4475717
I’m using a version of visual editor that I have modified to fit my needs and I have to admit that I experimented the same behavior that tonny47 mentions. The thing is that I realized that is not a problem on visual editor (at least on the version I have), the problem is moving the SL level when the current price is too close to that level.

I have debugged that behavior and find out that, when the price is too close to the SL level (like 3 pips) and you move the line on visual editor, then visual editor sends the order to the broker correctly, but the broker rejects the order because the price was too close, then visual editor moves back the SL line to the original place because there is where the SL level is after the order was rejected by the broker.

I assume that when price is to close to the SL level, the same thing can happen no matter what tool we are using or even trying to modify the SL level manually.

EDIT: As a side note, regarding modifying SL and TP levels, Easy Order (The tool that Kostas is using) is a lot better that visual editor. The thing is that with visual editor you can send several orders to the broker while you are dragging the SL or TP line, but with EasyOrder you will send only on order the moment you release the mouse button after dragging the line.
  • #6,313
  • Sep 8, 2011 1:58pm Sep 8, 2011 1:58pm
Quoting Haydel
The thing is that I realized that is not a problem on visual editor (at least on the version I have), the problem is moving the SL level when the current price is too close to that level.

I have debugged that behavior and find out that, when the price is too close to the SL level (like 3 pips) and you move the line on visual editor, then visual editor sends the order to the broker correctly,...
Yes yes yes!
Hindsight is 20/20
  • #6,314
  • Sep 8, 2011 7:07pm Sep 8, 2011 7:07pm
Quoting Binyamin
Last thing I will say. You can take the idea from my previous post and apply it to the weekly and daily charts with no problem. Use previous price action and bar action to predict the swing and enter with a sell order. Exit the way I mention(1st order at the next PPA, SR, pivot etc). SL is always the high/low of the bar action. In fact the larger TF are easier to identify and trade than the smaller ones. You can buy Low and sell High for most swings if you confirm with PPA and Bar action. Trade any market with this method. You will notice that sideway...
I understand most of what you said, but what is "after a bar action" you highlighted?

By the way, I would like to see you start to post charts for some interesting trade you taken. One thing I found is you have never posted chart on FF!!!!

cheers,

P.S. Would you mind telling how many trade are you taking per day, and
how many hours you trade a day on average, and how many pairs are you watching.
  • #6,315
  • Sep 8, 2011 7:47pm Sep 8, 2011 7:47pm
Quoting kk007
I understand most of what you said, but what is "after a bar action" you highlighted?...
I believe that Binyamin is talking about the shape of a bar after it closes. May be it ends up as a pin bar, a doji bar, etc. That helps you to decide when that happens at an important level.
  • #6,316
  • Edited 11:09pm Sep 8, 2011 9:13pm | Edited 11:09pm
Compliance.

Yeah Bar action is what Haydel described sorry for the confusion. Always wait for a bar action and Always enter with a stop order at the low or high, no exception except for 1H constrainments. Always take your first TP at the next price concentration, pivot, RN etc. Make sure the distance can cover your spread btw. If a bar action (pin bar etc) is properly positioned, rejecting at least a few key S or R, fibs, divergence whatever price usually always react quickly and race to the next S or R maybe 95% of the time, I haven't done my stats(I am planing too) but it sure feels like it. That's it, simple. No black magic involved. Be picky and don't be afraid to walk off a half good setup because they happen almost every day on the 15m, 1H and 30M with a few pairs when I look back for a few months. They happen once a month for daily charts perpair and they happen at least once a year or two per pair on a monthly chart.(Do a visual backtest and count for yourself) There is so many opportunities, don't be afraid to walk away from a bad deal and don't be afraid to take your TP at a guaranteed spot. On the daily and weekly a good pin bar by itself is quite reliable if you place a stop order at the lo/hi even if you don't consider PPA.

I didn't want to talk too much about this because this is not by the rules anymore, so Kostas please bear with me for 1 post. I also don't feel qualified to start a thread because all my info is from this forum, I didn't made it up or discover anything. I just found that if it is applied to any good strategy the edge will be magnified. (Try it on a bolinger band, it blew me away)

Edit: Ah I did not mention, to further increase your odds look for the same thing on the higher timeframe, and you can always spot areas where price are ready to sometimes jump a few hundred pips in a day or 2. Go to the lower timeframe and do the same thing the R:R can be fantastic. I can't believe traders get paid for this form of manual labor.... It's got to be the highest form of paid manual labor in the world for some trader with some account size.... I hope it helps, if it doesn't than I am probably missing something.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
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Click to Enlarge Name: daily.JPG Size: 273 KB
Riding the order flow
  • #6,317
  • Sep 8, 2011 11:14pm Sep 8, 2011 11:14pm
Last thing to mention is, I like this form of trading because it is not pair or market specific. I have heard of traders using it well in index, stocks and commodities too(exactly the same way). Since it is bar action trigger, a trader can trade 100 markets(yes I know a trader in this forum that trade that much market descretionaly) by waiting for an EA alert that will inform the trader when certain bar action occurs(on the higher TF so he have time to think). But if this style is not for you then its fine just stick to what works.
Riding the order flow
  • #6,318
  • Sep 8, 2011 11:43pm Sep 8, 2011 11:43pm
Quoting Binyamin
Compliance.

Yeah Bar action is what Haydel described sorry for the confusion. Always wait for a bar action and Always enter with a stop order at the low or high, no exception except for 1H constrainments. Always take your first TP at the next price concentration, pivot, RN etc. Make sure the distance can cover your spread btw. If a bar action (pin bar etc) is properly positioned, rejecting at least a few key S or R, fibs, divergence whatever price usually...
Hi Binyamin!

looking at the second chart - would you stop be at that high of the daily candle (over 300 pips)and your first target only around 25-30 pips?
  • #6,319
  • Edited Sep 9, 2011 12:12am Sep 8, 2011 11:58pm | Edited Sep 9, 2011 12:12am
Quoting tonny47
Hi Binyamin!

looking at the second chart - would you stop be at that high of the daily candle (over 300 pips)and your first target only around 25-30 pips?
You mean on the daily chart for my trades? My SL is 1.4151, and yes usually is at the high of the setup action bars if I consider the inside bar but this is an exception I only consider the pin bar. My 1st TP is 1.3930, if I want to be ultra conservative which is fine I could have taken my 1st TP at 1.3971 the next SR.

TP1 is at 80+ pips the SL size is 138.(Now at BE of course) Therefore RR is .57 for 1st TP. Modest but I like it that way.

If you are asking about my 2nd trade at 15M, no my SL is not 300 pips, it was about 20.
Riding the order flow
  • #6,320
  • Edited 12:25am Sep 9, 2011 12:03am | Edited 12:25am
Here is another chart where right after the 15M trade there was an ok setup I missed. This is partially Choros..... It can happen many times on the lower TF when you get a decent higher TF setup. While the higher TF is heading to its target the lower TF occasionally gives multiple hi prob setups. Once your 1TP hit, move the second to BE. You just can't let a winner turn into a lost, you just can't.... It is some choros so I don't mind writing this. For my case it enhance the choros edge. My weakness in touch, it covers my weakness.

Edit: I forgot to mention, that berish engulfing clearly rejected the significant 1.4 area.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Riding the order flow
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