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Sonic R. System

  • #25,121
  • Aug 18, 2011 4:54pm Aug 18, 2011 4:54pm
Im long eu

nice support
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  • #25,122
  • Aug 18, 2011 5:25pm Aug 18, 2011 5:25pm
Quoting traderathome
NU:

TP reached on this classic Sonic R. re-entry trade. EP = 0.8329, minus TP = 0.8194, minus spread = 5, equals 130 pips net profit.

Regards,
-tah
What are you doing, TAH? Trying to prove me wrong? I still say you can't stick to classic SonicR for even one month.

But I sure hope that you prove me wrong, my brother, 'cause being wrong in this case would make me very happy!

Nice trade!
  • #25,123
  • Aug 18, 2011 6:48pm Aug 18, 2011 6:48pm
Hey guys,

I'm trying to understand the system alittle better, and i'm searching for the 'money management' that corresponds to this system. The manual says have the trailing stop and stop loss at 80 pips, but thats it and nothing more. Can someone elaborate more on this?
  • #25,124
  • Aug 18, 2011 7:41pm Aug 18, 2011 7:41pm
Quoting hunter101
Hey guys,

I'm trying to understand the system alittle better, and i'm searching for the 'money management' that corresponds to this system. The manual says have the trailing stop and stop loss at 80 pips, but thats it and nothing more. Can someone elaborate more on this?
When we speak of money management, we mean ALWAYS have a fixed stop loss in the market, trade small enough so that you risk less than 2% of your account on any one trade - the smaller the risk the better, though this is difficult for small account holders), and use profit targets that are bigger than your stop losses.
  • #25,125
  • Edited 8:12pm Aug 18, 2011 8:01pm | Edited 8:12pm
Quoting hunter101
Hey guys,

I'm trying to understand the system alittle better, and i'm searching for the 'money management' that corresponds to this system. The manual says have the trailing stop and stop loss at 80 pips, but thats it and nothing more. Can someone elaborate more on this?
Here is a current example. Because the trade is outside of the London session, it is only shown as an example of setting TPs and a SL. You can see the PA wave in black, L-H-HL. Target choices are green. Stop loss choices are red. And we have to move to the H1 chart to understand more about their placement.

You decide what targets and what stop loss to pick. The stop loss consideration of not being more than x% of your account is not the only consideration. Volatility is another. If PA is volatile, and your x% of account SL is too close, you might as well not even take the trade.
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  • #25,126
  • Aug 18, 2011 8:37pm Aug 18, 2011 8:37pm
Quoting traderathome
...The stop loss consideration of not being more than x% of your account is not the only consideration. Volatility is another. If PA is volatile, and your x% of account SL is too close, you might as well not even take the trade.
Most pro's would say that %risk is the only consideration, but they would agree with you that if a particular trade required that your risk a greater % of your capital on a trade than your plan dictates that you should indeed not take that trade. The markets will always be here, and there will shortly be another opportunity with a more favorable risk profile.

With all due respect TAH, until you get your own money management house in order, it would be best for you to leave this particular topic alone. You might be able to recognize a SonicR on an M15, but you really do not understand the role risk plays in this game.

I am pulling for you, but I reitereate my statement from yesterday - your money management examples are the singular most dangerous thing in this thread, and quite possibly on FF period. I may be the only with the stones to say it, but I assure you that I am not the only one who feels this way.
  • #25,127
  • Aug 18, 2011 9:01pm Aug 18, 2011 9:01pm
anyone? How to interpret the sonic VSA? how will it show the start of a trend or an end of the trend?
  • #25,128
  • Edited 9:20pm Aug 18, 2011 9:04pm | Edited 9:20pm
Quoting ddaytrader
Most pro's would say that %risk is the only consideration, but they would agree with you that if a particular trade required that your risk a greater % of your capital on a trade than your plan dictates that you should indeed not take that trade. The markets will always be here, and there will shortly be another opportunity with a more favorable risk profile.

With all due respect TAH, until you get your own money management house in order, it would be best for you to leave this particular topic alone. You might be able to recognize a SonicR...
With all due respect, my friend, you should not criticise me for telling the truth. If PA is volatile, and the 2% of account SL, or whatever % of account SL it might be, is too close, it is asinine to take the trade! So % risk is not the only consideration.

PA volatility is definately a consideration. And when the London session is underway, it is "Jack-in-the-Box" time! The sudden "bang" can be either way regardless of previous PA, and with ensuing wide whips. And until the worst of that is over, a trade with a close SL is a sitting duck with a high probability of turning out to be a loss of money. Just because a SL is within the allotted % risk does not mean it has protection from being targeted by the "Market". It doesn't.

BTW, my money management houses are in order. Keeping them separate is the key.
  • #25,129
  • Aug 18, 2011 9:19pm Aug 18, 2011 9:19pm
Quoting traderathome
... If PA is volatile, and the 2% of account SL, or whatever % of account SL it might be, is too close, it is asinine to take the trade! So % risk is not the only consideration....
So what you are saying is that the criterion is % risk, and that volatiltity may result in that risk necessary to take a trade to be higher than the allowed risk, therefore skip the trade. No kidding! That's what I said. Risk no more than 2% of the account on a trade. If the stop loss required due to the range, i.e. volatility, is, for example, 300 pips, and your account is $1000, and the smallest size your broker will let you trade is $0.10 then you cannot take that trade, because the risk is 3% of the account.

If, on the other hand, another trade requires only a 30 pip stop loss, then not only can you do that trade, but you can trade 6 microlots for $0.60 per pip risk, and stay within the 2% risk rule. It is all about risk, TAH. You are mistaking an input, i.e. range, volatility as equal to the function itself.

Account size is an input. Distance between EP and SL is an input. %Risk is the function that dictates the role of those inputs.

Now go google position sizing + risk management and you will find that I am right on this one, just as I was right on fibonacci expansions when you were insisting that I was wrong and that you were right.
  • #25,130
  • Edited 9:47pm Aug 18, 2011 9:27pm | Edited 9:47pm
Quoting ddaytrader
So what you are saying is that the criterion is % risk, and that volatiltity may result in that risk necessary to take a trade to be higher than the allowed risk, therefore skip the trade. No kidding! That's what I said. Risk no more than 2% of the account on a trade. If the stop loss required due to the range, i.e. volatility, is, for example, 300 pips, and your account is $1000, and the smallest size your broker will let you trade is $0.10 then you cannot take that trade, because the risk is 3% of the account.

If, on the other hand, another...
What I am saying is that you should not criticise me for telling the truth. And the truth is the trader must select from a choices of likely SL positions. Just because some are close, and maybe within the allotted % risk, does not mean they are wise choices. PA volatility might negate them. So, if the trader cannot place a nicely wide SL (as does Sonicdeejay in high volatility situtations) due to the maximum allotted % risk, then the trader might as well not even take the trade!

I don't think it can be said any more simply than that, so I hope you understand me.

Actually, I will add this. The "Market" moves price using stop losses and pending orders as stepping stones to do so. So, logically, the closer in a SL is, when PA volatility is likely to be high, the more likely it will be that the "Market" will reach that SL stepping stone as it moves the price in swings or whips. So, in such times, it is best to have a wide SL, or if that is not possible due to the allotted % risk, then the trade should be deferred. Wait until the high volatility cycle is past, and maybe an entry will come, for which a closer in SL will be suitable.

BTW ddaytrader, I never said your remarks about % risk were in error. I only said you should not criticise me for telling the truth. My remarks were not in error either. But you always seem to make a contest out of things.
  • #25,131
  • Aug 18, 2011 9:31pm Aug 18, 2011 9:31pm
Quoting traderathome
I don't think it can be said any more simply than that, so I hope you understand me.
I understand you. The problem is that you don't understand you.

Good night, TAH.
  • #25,132
  • Aug 18, 2011 9:49pm Aug 18, 2011 9:49pm
Quoting ddaytrader
I understand you. The problem is that you don't understand you.

Good night, TAH.
Good night, my friend.
  • #25,133
  • Aug 18, 2011 9:49pm Aug 18, 2011 9:49pm
EU long entered, maybe last trade for this week.
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seeing through
  • #25,134
  • Aug 18, 2011 10:18pm Aug 18, 2011 10:18pm
GU:

Entered short, a Sonic R. re-entry with EP = 1.6495.
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  • #25,135
  • Aug 18, 2011 10:28pm Aug 18, 2011 10:28pm
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...urrentPage=all

This article is about Ray Dalio, the founder of the biggest hedge fund in the world today. I believe i met him once, very approaching guy.

Not sure if he says in this article, but risk management is key, but understanding the markets and 'foreseeing' the waves can give an edge. The risk i beleive is 1% (TP) to gain or 1.3% to lose (SL). Granted they are not dealing with low funds, 1% of a few hundred millions yields allot. They perform about 13-20% per year for about 20 years now.

But whats interesting is that with risk management comes 'knowing' yourself. Everyone's been there when hitting the low of losing money, but going past that is essential (like the paragraph Sonic has with risk management).

So yea, anything less than 2% seems good. Gambling is 'risking it all,' investing takes skills, smarts and understanding, and i want to understand the Sonic way of risk management. Ill probably go with risking less than 1% per trade. If this system has about a 60% wins, then its very profitable and making 20% per year is great by any means!
  • #25,136
  • Aug 19, 2011 12:14am Aug 19, 2011 12:14am
Quoting pipphunter
EU long entered, maybe last trade for this week.

Nice vol but
CT trade.. be a hawk..


Sonic
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  • #25,137
  • Aug 19, 2011 12:51am Aug 19, 2011 12:51am
Will see.
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Mind the gap
  • #25,138
  • Aug 19, 2011 1:25am Aug 19, 2011 1:25am
Quoting sonicdeejay
Nice vol but
CT trade.. be a hawk..


Sonic

yes master, got KO, done for the week. good lucks bros
seeing through
  • #25,139
  • Aug 19, 2011 1:52am Aug 19, 2011 1:52am
Quoting pipphunter
here I have a challenge question for all Sonicers to think and share your ideas.
Q: as the chart show, if we cannot see the past, you have to trade it, what 's your trading plan? how will you trade it?
piphunter, wondering what is your reply to your own challenge question ??

I replied in earlier post.
  • #25,140
  • Aug 19, 2011 2:11am Aug 19, 2011 2:11am
Quoting pipphunter
yes master, got KO, done for the week. good lucks bros
1.432x seem a nice head resistance..for upside breakout..

Sonic
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