Where is the EDGE in trading? The most important thing in trading! | Page 24 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

An Edge for an Edge (System Development) 116 replies

What do you thing is your edge? 5 replies

Improving Your Trading Performance: The Single Most Important Step You Can Take 13 replies

The most simple thing you could ever do 0 replies

The most difficult thing? 20 replies

Attachments: Where is the EDGE in trading? The most important thing in trading!
Exit Attachments

Where is the EDGE in trading? The most important thing in trading!

  • #461
  • Aug 12, 2011 4:51pm Aug 12, 2011 4:51pm
Quoting Mr Breakout
Monday I will show you some backtests on the 1min time frame, since you foolishly claim that TA does not work on smaller time frames. I will even give you the Omega Trade Station Code.
No need to backtest. Just run the live test. 1 minute time frame should produce large enough sample so sample size wont be questionable.
  • #462
  • Aug 12, 2011 5:04pm Aug 12, 2011 5:04pm
Quoting reres
No need to backtest. Just run the live test. 1 minute time frame should produce large enough sample so sample size wont be questionable.
Wait a minute... wait a minute...I get it now . What a fool I am, you deliberately created this thread so that you can get your hand on a profitable backtested/forwarded system for FREE and the code on top of that!!

Ohhhhhhh no, I am not going to fall for that trap. Nice try though, you are a shrewd fox indeed
  • #463
  • Aug 12, 2011 5:11pm Aug 12, 2011 5:11pm
Quoting reres
Discussion here should be about what brings the edge in trading. Noone cares who is right or wrong but if someone says indicators work than get some proof first. But hey, anyone trying to proove that bunch of random lines can predict anything (like Mr Breakout) can only come with "Blah...blah....blah....blah....blah ...blah....blah....blah.... " at the end. No real arguments to support his claims. Just useless comments and imaginary backtest.
I posted a screen shot of a method I use that utilizes indicators....but I guess you would rather just continue bickering with people.

I think this thread is just a big waste of time.....
  • #464
  • Edited Aug 13, 2011 12:08am Aug 12, 2011 5:22pm | Edited Aug 13, 2011 12:08am
Quoting Mr Breakout
Wait a minute... wait a minute...I get it now . What a fool I am, you deliberately created this thread so that you can get your hand on a profitable backtested/forwarded system for FREE and the code on top of that!!

Ohhhhhhh no, I am not going to fall for that trap. Nice try though, you are a shrewd fox indeed
He tried and so did all the other trolls, sad, very sad.
  • #465
  • Aug 12, 2011 6:11pm Aug 12, 2011 6:11pm
Quoting jag1966
Hr tried and so did all the other trolls, sad, very sad.
Yep, they constantly provoke you and challenge you, hoping that in the end you will simply hand them all your profitable systems (obtained through years of studying, testing and frustration) just to prove them wrong.
  • #466
  • Aug 12, 2011 6:27pm Aug 12, 2011 6:27pm
Quoting JR97
Hell, you could probably just come up with a method to buy the open every day and bat .500 over a decent period of time
Did you know you can make money even with totally random buy/sell signals, simply by using a few simple money management rules?

See my post here:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=4819619

PS: I bet Reres did not know either
  • #467
  • Aug 12, 2011 6:36pm Aug 12, 2011 6:36pm
Quoting AllanS
Since my real job is quite intense, I'm here for recreation. I enjoy competing with the markets using a demo account. I often win. I'm up 64% this month, scalping 1M Fti style. If I used real money, I would lose because the bucket shops have no interest in me winning. Slippage, spikes, spreads, drop-outs... they have all the tools they need to shut me down. As it is, they provide me, at their own cost, with an evening's entertainment. Very generous of them.
AllanS

It would appear that you believe that you, a 1 in million Forex trader, that your broker will target you...Your trading a small account in the scheme of things. I trade a live account and do not have that problem...I also have a live futures account (Emini’s traded specifically) No problem there either. That is NOT to say that, that has not happen in the past... Forex brokers and their structures have changed radically since I first learn to trade 4X back in the late 90's...In the 12 years I have been trading I have never ( knowingly ) been ripped off by a broker. Yes I have heard the horror stories to be sure. But so far nothing... I have had re- quotes, bad data, platform issues, etc, etc…but I have also had brokers saave my$$ too. Refco come to mind! – My first account.

Trading a Demo vs. trading live can be a different as night and day for everyone (IMHO). Traders will act and do differently when real money is on the line.

If you are getting the results as stated you should go forward. Build your plan then trade it. Don’t get caught up in the conspiracy theories…The trading world is full of them. You never know, you may be very successful... 64% is very good... Especially if you have a strong money management component built in to your method. (Very important)

Good luck, trade well, make money!!

TSD
  • #468
  • Aug 12, 2011 6:45pm Aug 12, 2011 6:45pm
Quoting Mr Breakout
Did you know you can make money even with totally random buy/sell signals, simply by using a few simple money management rules?

See my post here:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=4819619

PS: I bet Reres did not know either
Yeah, that was kind of the whole point. I haven't read every post in this thread because it was looking like a TA, indicator, blah blah blah fight thread.

Anywho, that book should be one of the first books people read. I've gone through it a dozen at least in the last 10 years.

Maybe it's mentioned in this thread, but position sizing is a huge topic mostly ignored. Fixed Fractional vs Fixed Ratio vs whatever.

Probably topics beyond the scope of this thread given the direction it's seemed to have gone.
  • #469
  • Aug 12, 2011 6:52pm Aug 12, 2011 6:52pm
Quoting Mr Breakout
Did you know you can make money even with totally random buy/sell signals, simply by using a few simple money management rules?

See my post here:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=4819619

PS: I bet Reres did not know either
Hey Breakout...

Shhhh !!! Dont tell the whole world

There are so many out there that simply won't believe you. They cant get out of their own way. I had that problem once..Cost me 1000's !! Ouch !!!!

A traders mind set is what takes a trader down. They can have a profitable method but without the correct mind set their gonna be toast at some point.
Not to mention all there other factors such as money management, trade management ( two different things here folks ) targets, stops, correct R/R, proper expectancy.

Not sure if Reres gets that either.. We can only hope

TSD

PSS... No insult intended Reres... Just trying to get you to look at the markets in a different way.. Success will come.. Dont give up !!
  • #470
  • Aug 12, 2011 6:56pm Aug 12, 2011 6:56pm
Quoting TraderinSD
Hey Breakout...

Shhhh !!! Dont tell the whole world

There are so many out there that simply won't believe you. They cant get out of their own way. I had that problem once..Cost me 1000's !! Ouch !!!!

A traders mind set is what takes a trader down. They can have a profitable method but without the correct mind set their gonna be toast at some point.
[color=black][font=Verdana]Not to mention all there other factors such as money management, trade management ( two different...


About your previous post, I do not quite agree, brokers have all the tools that allow them to play tricks against the average trader, from time to time, take a look at this video for example:

http://forexsocialmedia.com/home/soc...r+Manager.html
  • #471
  • Aug 12, 2011 7:08pm Aug 12, 2011 7:08pm
All Right, well here's what I see:

reres started this thread with a clear bias that TA doesn't work. It seems that the point of this thread has been to reinforce that bias. Many good posts have been made and the really good points are usually overlooked in favor of finding something... anything to reinforce the notion that any attempt to use TA is for failure.

Moon trading was even mentioned. I think the point of that post was "Use whatever works for you and makes you money".
However, the OP seemed to skip that point and add moon trading to the pile of mumbo jumbo. (Which, in this case, is where it belongs)

Random lines were mentioned. The point being.... anything can work sometimes, but it's still no way to trade. You need to find what works for you. But, the mumbo jumbo pile is, again, reinforced. (Random lines also belong in that ever-growing pile)

But, what about the really good stuff ?? Like this one:
Quoting jag1966
I traded gu short twice using NAKED CHARTS. .... naked charts with NO INDICATORS
There is an excellent example of how to use support and resistance drawn with horizontal lines on that chart. That's the kind of TA I'm talking about.

This next one shows a very useful way to actually use indicators to your advantage, if you so desire, and you find that it is helpful.

Quoting moneymaker2
This is one of the ..... methods I use that I believe gives me an edge, because I define an edge as anything that I can use to make a decision about a trade that will ultimately lead to profitability of that trade.
Divergence is a good and proper use of MacD and RSI indicators.

That doesn't mean you can just slap the indicator on your chart and have your EA take every one of them. There's more to it than that. That's why people talk about confluence of support. Where you see several good reasons to take a trade. (i.e.) If that divergence happens at strong Daily support... now we have something to really pique our interest.

It's real easy to have preconceived biases in this business. It's quite common to be in a long trade and then start looking at all kinds of chart setups to attempt to find a reason to reinforce our previous belief. It takes time to get past that habit, and to really quiet the mind and be totally open for anything that comes along. Call it being flexible.

TA takes time to master. 24 hours aint gonna cut it. Actually, I think it takes about 24 hours to learn to play chess. But, do you really think you're going to go out that weekend and start winning tournaments ?? Golf... now that's friggin easy, I can learn that game in 5 minutes. That's learn.... not master.

Chart analysis, support and resistance, flow of the market. Quiet the mind.
  • #472
  • Aug 12, 2011 7:36pm Aug 12, 2011 7:36pm
Well, it's Friday night and I have time to catch up on some FF reading. My previous post here was made after reading just a few pages, concluding that this thread is a waste of time and energy. After reading most of the pages tonight, I agree with several participants that there are a few good ideas presented here, but that most of the effort (by reres) has been negative and very unproductive. Not an environment that is condusive to sharing ideas on a trader's edge. It's too bad that new traders get sucked in to this drama and end up wasting their valuable learning time with a bunch of goofs.

Here is a tip on finding your edge: you will not find a edge with people who are negative, with people who argue without a point, and with people who aren't traders. There are too many negative people here, too much arguing, and too few traders.

Signing off -- for good.
  • #473
  • Aug 12, 2011 7:42pm Aug 12, 2011 7:42pm
Quoting Price
However, the OP seemed to skip that point and add moon trading to the pile of mumbo jumbo. (Which, in this case, is where it belongs)
Believe it or not, someone actually found a statistically significant positive correlation between the different phases of the moon and major tops and bottoms in the Silver futures contract!


Quoting Price
There is an excellent example of how to use support and resistance drawn with horizontal lines on that chart.
Of all the systems I tested over the years, the ones that use support and resistance lines are by far the most profitable and the most robust!

Of course the hardest part part was to mathematically define a support and a resistance line, so that I can computerize the rules and test them on dozens of currency pairs over 10 years of hourly data.

But yes, support and resistance do give the trader a real statistical advantage.
  • #474
  • Aug 12, 2011 8:20pm Aug 12, 2011 8:20pm
Quoting Mr Breakout
Of all the systems I tested over the years, the ones that use support and resistance lines are by far the most profitable and the most robust!

Of course the hardest part part was to mathematically define a support and a resistance line, so that I can computerize the rules and test them on dozens of currency pairs over 10 years of hourly data.

But yes, support and resistance do give the trader a real statistical advantage.
Wait, whut?

Your nick is Mr. Breakout and you are looking to mathamatically define a support and resistance line? Surely you have to be joking, right? Or is everybody in this room stupid enough to buy into that crap as well?

Do you even know what a breakout is? And the value of horizontal lines in these critical areas?

I have posted a great example of support and resistance at the EURUSD thread, will post it again here, might give you an idea of:

1. Break out zone
2. The value of previously tested support and resistance areas.

Oh mah gah!
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: gap.jpg Size: 100 KB
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #475
  • Aug 12, 2011 8:36pm Aug 12, 2011 8:36pm
Magix, just to be fair with you, you (and your friend from the EUR/USD thread) are on my Ignore list since yesterday.

How you manage to stay in this Forex forum when 99% of your posts are just pure noise (not to mention impolite and rude) is totally beyond my comprehension.
  • #476
  • Aug 12, 2011 8:46pm Aug 12, 2011 8:46pm
Don't feed the trolls, or they will come begging for more scraps the next day.

This guy is a troll, don't pay him any attention.
"Don't Panic..."
  • #477
  • Aug 12, 2011 9:12pm Aug 12, 2011 9:12pm
Quoting Mr Breakout
Magix, just to be fair with you, you (and your friend from the EUR/USD thread) are on my Ignore list since yesterday.

How you manage to stay in this Forex forum when 99% of your posts are just pure noise (not to mention impolite and rude) is totally beyond my comprehension.
This would be, what, like a mental ignore list? Uh...cuz to be fair, if I was on your ignore list, why would you bother replying, or even know to reply?

Now, on the 99% of my posts being noise, you busted out your computer and did the Mathematical calculations based on the pro-rating of the content of my posts?

You are an amusing fella...well, not really...
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #478
  • Aug 12, 2011 9:21pm Aug 12, 2011 9:21pm
Quoting FX-Petra
It is intresting to see this topic be reargued again by a fresh crop of forum participants. It seems to be a fun exercise and a good way to fill time, but in the end is it making anybody more money? Probably not. But a lot of damn intresting commentary....

Regards,
People would be wise to read your thread on edges. It's a classic.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #479
  • Aug 12, 2011 9:24pm Aug 12, 2011 9:24pm
Quoting Magix
I have posted a great example of support and resistance at the EURUSD thread, will post it again here, might give you an idea of:

1. Break out zone
2. The value of previously tested support and resistance areas.

Oh mah gah!
The chart seems to read you use end-of-week ("weekly close") and start-of-week ("broke r open") for s/r. What's your reasoning for this?
  • #480
  • Aug 12, 2011 9:47pm Aug 12, 2011 9:47pm
Quoting reres
Lets say that we solve all the problems with traders psyhology and money managment. Lets say money managment is perfect and the trader is trading like a robot. Knowing that trading is just a probability game and not having problems accepting losses.

Than to make a profit he still needs to have an edge. Just like casino has an edge and it doesnt care if someone wins a jackpot once in a while.

So where excatly is an edge in trading??

1) Technical analysis doesnt work! All indicators are lagging and produce random results due to the fact that...
Price action works. It takes hard work to get round its subtleties. Hard work, commitment and a capacity to steadily work that knowledge into a nice compact understanding of the market.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
0 traders viewing now