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Sonic R. System

  • #23,741
  • Jul 22, 2011 9:57am Jul 22, 2011 9:57am
Quoting TRMZXT
Is the EU trade a proper Sonic. you don't show a 89 MA and on mine it wasn't down but at about 0 degrees as as it went below it? Would you use the 89 MA as a entry level?
I try to focus more on price, not MA's.
  • #23,742
  • Jul 22, 2011 10:02am Jul 22, 2011 10:02am
Quoting traderathome
1. time in session is running out with only about an hour to go, and since Friday, things may wind down early.

2. PA shows support down there in the quarter number area, and a bit above.

3. stopping volume on US session run down points to this area being good support.

Taking this all into consideration, I'd not be anticipating more downside in the hours left in this last day of the week.

Thanks for the analysis! So... looking at next week IF we have a move back north in the London session with a proper wave that would DEF be a good move to get into? I would think so with the resistance down and support up as you mentioned.
  • #23,743
  • Jul 22, 2011 10:03am Jul 22, 2011 10:03am
Quoting ott256
I try to focus more on price, not MA's.

ahhhh ok... thanks!
  • #23,744
  • Jul 22, 2011 10:15am Jul 22, 2011 10:15am
Quoting sonicdeejay
Suggestion:: U should TP 1 or SL @ BE,,


Sonic
thanks mate
TP exact hit 4325 ,,
and partial remaining with few targets.
aligater
born to speculate
  • #23,745
  • Jul 22, 2011 10:48am Jul 22, 2011 10:48am
Quoting sonicdeejay
Suggestion:: U should TP 1 or SL @ BE,,

http://www.forexfactory.com/attachme...0&d=1311343193

Sonic
Told cha.. NIte all

Sonic
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  • #23,746
  • Jul 22, 2011 10:57am Jul 22, 2011 10:57am
Quoting sonicdeejay
Told cha.. NIte all

Sonic
it is not over yet
aligator
born to speculate
  • #23,747
  • Jul 22, 2011 11:01am Jul 22, 2011 11:01am
Nando - try adding an rsx indicator to your chart with the perioud set to 8

and levels 15 and 85 - It will help you a lot to determine if you have a valid wave for this special kind of trading.

Regards,

Hans.

p.s I can attach it if you want
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"The future is already written in the past"
  • #23,748
  • Jul 22, 2011 11:31am Jul 22, 2011 11:31am
Come on 1.43-1.4275 let get down there
  • #23,749
  • Edited 3:04pm Jul 22, 2011 12:35pm | Edited 3:04pm
... still in profit ...

I will say thank u too all shorties -

ur cash is not away -> it is in master sonics and my pocket

I will show my touch down

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into into into ya face - this for all my haters

Inserted Video


nice weekend to all tradaz and sonicaz

enigma4x

p.s. dre is so right - my live is like a soundtrack ...
enjoy my life ... and ride the waves - all what I do
  • #23,750
  • Jul 22, 2011 1:52pm Jul 22, 2011 1:52pm
yeah chronic 2001 , best shit I've ever heard
Poshcom
  • #23,751
  • Jul 22, 2011 3:02pm Jul 22, 2011 3:02pm
Quoting hansma
Nando - try adding an rsx indicator to your chart with the perioud set to 8

and levels 15 and 85 - It will help you a lot to determine if you have a valid wave for this special kind of trading.

Regards,

Hans.

p.s I can attach it if you want

Thanks mate...i'm not friend of indis, i prefer to be concentrate in PA and waves, but i could test it the next week.

Good weekend for all.

Regards.
"Being picky only cost your time - not MONEY"...Hans
  • #23,752
  • Jul 22, 2011 5:43pm Jul 22, 2011 5:43pm
Quoting aligater
it is not over yet
aligator
It will never over.. Up or down and u can never go broke by taking profit..

Happy weekends all,,

Sonic
  • #23,753
  • Jul 22, 2011 7:43pm Jul 22, 2011 7:43pm
Quoting stimpy
dday trader, what do you do with regards to SL TP TSL etc.

do you use a trailing stop of a fixed TP?

do you have a risk reward ratio?

do you part close?

do you add to winning positions - scaling or pyramiding?

do you go for indicator led exits or fixed numbers in pips?
First, I no longer day trade on purpose. Sometimes I enter a trade and I am stopped out the same day, but that is not the saame thing as a "day trade." I primarily swing trade and position trade - anywhere from 3-5 days to 3-5 months. But, as you are asking about my day trading, here is how I was doing it when I was at the end of my day trading:

I typically used fib extensions of the Sonic seed wave, combined with actual S/R levels to dial in my TP's. I did not scale in - I was all in at EP.

I would only take trades whwere a first TP gave me a 1:1 risk reward, and TP2 at least 2:1.

I would close 1/2 at TP1, 1/2 at TP2.

If I was trading with the daily trend, and I entered a trade with that trend, but after a significant correction against that trend, I would not use TP's, but instead I just kept adding every time I got a new SonicR seed wave. This is actually how I came to investigate and develop what I call SonicPyramid.


Counter trend trades always exit with TP's.

Never use indicators exit - I try to use price action only as much as possible. Indicators keep me from acting reckless, but I do not let them make me act or react.

I use the 34EMA's, aka Sonic Dragon as trend indicator. I use Rate of Change as a short term momentum indicator. I use price itself as the ultimate, "don't argue with me" indicator.

If you go back through my old posts, you will see that I had gotten to the point with my day trading that I used only the Sonic Dragon, and sometimes I did not even use that. I was still trading SonicR, but you do not need all the indicators to trade SonicR, as it is really based upon highs and lows, higher highs and higher lows, lower highs and lower lows, i.e. price action. The indicators should help keep our eyes focused and our emotions in check. Unfortunately, I see that more and more, the indicators themselves have taken on a life of their own here in the thread. I do not care if you are day trading the M15, or position trading the weekly TF, if you need to use any indicators at all, you need only two: One for the long term trend, i.e. the Sonic Dragon, and one for short term momentum - Sonic originally used either stochastic or MACD for this, and eventually settled on the CCI. I am not sure what the flavor of the day is any longer, but you only need those two indicators if you need any at all.

I think you had also asked about hedging. I am an American, so Hedging is illegal for me. But I never was a hedger. All hedging does is lock in a loss larger than the loss you already have by adding an aditional spread loss to the position. If you are losing, and you are losing too much, or your analysis is clearly wrong, just close the position.
  • #23,754
  • Jul 22, 2011 7:46pm Jul 22, 2011 7:46pm
Quoting enigma4x
into into into ya face - this for all my haters...
Get over yourself, dude - no one hates you. But your attitude toward others could use some more positive thinking.

Have a good weekend, and come back happy to see us on Monday, ok?
  • #23,755
  • Edited 10:11pm Jul 22, 2011 8:05pm | Edited 10:11pm
Quoting ott256
The problem is not about trading time, but the setups itself. TAH, I have a suggestion for you to take better setups. Watch for historic price action peaks/valleys. Avoid trades when significant low is just ahead of your entry point when taking a long trade, and when high is ahead of ep when taking a short trade. Those first setups on u/j and a/u are not the best ones. I have drawn the red line which acts as s&r.
ott is right, TAH - it has nothing to do with the time. It has more to do with a very common problem among traders called "overtrading." The truth of the matter is that good, solid, high probability SOnicR set ups do not happen everyday. We must wait for them patiently, and discipline oursleves to let the market lead us to the mountain.

Do you recall Basber's wise words from two years ago? -

Quoting Basber
Anyway, I Stick A Note On The PC That I Trade With It That Tells me to "Be More Picky", More Than Before ... And That's What I'm Doing Now. Being MORE Picky. Waiting For A Clear Entry. Many ... [traders]es Want Pips, And Want It ALL ! (They Go Mad If Price Leaves Without Them) That's Gonna Take Them Down, Sooner Or Later.
Regards,
Basber
And let us not forget that SonicRockstar Muhammad - who told us he had how many trades last week?

Quoting Muhammad989
3 trades this week all wins...enjoy week ,

Muhammad
TAH, it is time for you to Be More Picky!

Put that on a post it note and stick it to your screen.

Basber did it.

I did it.

It works.

Do it.

Be More Picky!
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  • #23,756
  • Edited 10:35pm Jul 22, 2011 10:16pm | Edited 10:35pm
Quoting ott256
The problem is not about trading time, but the setups itself. TAH, I have a suggestion for you to take better setups. Watch for historic price action peaks/valleys. Avoid trades when significant low is just ahead of your entry point when taking a long trade, and when high is ahead of ep when taking a short trade.........
Quoting ddaytrader
ott is right, TAH - it has nothing to do with the time, and everything to do with what seems almost to be an addiction to being in the market all day, everyday. The truth of the matter is that good, solid, high probability SOnicR set ups do not happen everyday. We must wait for them patiently, and discipline oursleves to let the market lead us to the mountain....
On the point that a good setup has nothing to do with time, but with the setups themselves, I disagree, and strongly so. I have no argument that one recurring mistake of mine is trading too much, which fosters entries outside of the London session. This ill timing is the problem, not the "quality" or "appearance" of the setup! Timing has everything to do with how a quality looking setup actually performs. And it is the reason Sonicdeejay has specified to trade only the London session. Those trades of mine that fail to run, and then reverse, are mostly those entered outside of the London session. True, I have entered non-SonicR trades based on anticipated highs or lows (Sonic Scout), but those are not the issue of this topic.

Here is a case in point, UCad, to compare with the AU and UJ trades, both of which were entered before the London session. Ott256 says the point is that S&R was too close to enter AU and UJ, so those setups failed. And I say the point is the timing of the trades. Just like AU and UJ, UCad faced immediate S&R. However, it broke thru and ran,....the racing car that "could"....because it was breaking out in the London session, with the London session high level of trading activity to provide the momentum that makes a "quality" looking setup actually run. The UCad setup faced stiff resistance, and did not fail. And the somewhat flat PA Wave for UCad is not as good as the PA Waves for AU and UJ.

Now, by comparison to UCad, both AU and UJ were entered prior to the London session. And neither trade ran worth a darn! Ott256 points out that AU and UJ faced S&R during breakout. I am pointing out that UCad likewise faced S&R during breakout. And UCad plowed right thru the S&R level it was up against because it had London session momentum behind it. AU and UJ were pre-London breakouts, without that momentum, and they both failed to break thru the S&R that they faced, even with better (not flat) PA Waves.

So, it is not that setups face S&R that is the problem, but that they need the London session momentum to accomplish the breakout and run thru that S&R!

LONDON SESSION TIMING IS IMPORTANT FOR REASONS OF MOMENTUM!
.....it is the difference between "quality" looking setups, those that fail and those that succeed.

Below are charts for the AU, UJ and UCad trade setups. The vertical lines on the charts mark the open of the London session. The PA Waves for the setups are in blue. The S&R the setups faced are gray rectangles. The red and green lines mark the failure or success of the breakouts thru these S&R areas.

I would like to also add another importance of waiting for the London session to begin, before trading. Very often the London session puts on moves that are contrary to PA "appearance" prior to the London session. For that reason, as well as for momentum, it is best to wait until the London session is underway before considering a setup for entry.
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  • #23,757
  • Jul 22, 2011 10:37pm Jul 22, 2011 10:37pm
Quoting traderathome
I disagree, and strongly so.
Then I have my work cut out for me.

First, we need to be precise with our terms so as to make sure we are speaking with each other and not simply at one another: Timing refers specifically to how one decides the criteria for entering and exiting the market. Time, refers specifically to the hour of the day. You are using the word "timing," when what you are referring to is "time."

Time is of secondary importance.

Let us focus your attention on only those things of primary importance.

Timing is primary. Time is secondary.

Think of it this way: There are plenty of Americans like me who trade with good results without ever once having been awake for the London open, let alone the whole of the London session. Likewise, there are no doubt plenty of failed would-be Sonikers who traded nothing but the London session.

One difference between success and failure in trading is trade timing, not trading hours.

If you feel that your success requires you to limit your trading to the London session, then that is all well and good. But do not think that that is primary problem. It is not - but we will get there.

By the way, are you still carrying your losing positions with you over the weekend, or did you close them out?

-ddaytrader
  • #23,758
  • Edited 11:39pm Jul 22, 2011 11:24pm | Edited 11:39pm
Quoting ddaytrader
Then I have my work cut out for me.

First, we need to be precise with our terms so as to make sure we are speaking with each other and not simply at one another: Timing refers specifically to how one decides the criteria for entering and exiting the market. Time, refers specifically to the hour of the day. You are using the word "timing," when what you are referring to is "time."

Time is of secondary importance.

Let us focus your attention on only those things of primary importance.

Timing is primary. Time is secondary....
I did define my use of the word "timing", referring to "London session timing" as meaning trading only during the London session for two important reasons; momentum and possible change in direction from prior PA. There are many different times during the London session that one might choose to enter a trade based on what time there might be a SonicR setup. Using the word "timing" and the phrase "London session timing" encoumpasses all that, so I think their use is proper.

Your unique application of the Dragon to trading on the Day chart, of which I look forward to seeing actual posts of trades, might involve "timing" consisderations absent from pure SonicR, and maybe that is why you view the use of the term somewhat differently. With pure SonicR, the time/timing of entry is determined by the wave, dragon and PA.....the setup. And what setups should be considered depends on whether or not they fall within the London session,....their time/timing during the trading day. It is the concept that is important here, not the choice of wording. I can well understand that trading off of the Day chart negates the importance of London session entries, but trading off of the Day chart is not the Sonic R. System. Pure SonicR requires the London session, and for two very valid reasons. Applying the method outside the London session comes with much higher risk, as I well know.

My trades are still on. They will all execute at least pullbacks to better prices for closing the trades. So quickly after their Thursday runs, a good pullback on Friday was simply not to be. But it will happen next week. Here is where patience is required. Just "willy nilly" closing them at/near the ends of their runs against the trade would be rash and foolish. I have been here enough times before to understand how this will play out. Some time during next week, some of the trades will even be profitable. My management of them is apart and separate from trading just pure SonicR going forward. I can disdinguish between the two, and manage them differently, according to their situations. With the latter, I should not have any more of the former. That I look forward to.

Areas for my improvement:
1. Patience to trade less
2. Patience to trade only right "time" setups
3. Discipline to use SL - this will be a real bug-a-boo for me,.....

.....the way I hope it will work out will be to find that pure SonicR setups have less of a SL hit problem, and that I can learn to accept what hits there are, experiencing that it is,....all-in-all....far better. The key will be in the experiencing of it.

-tah
  • #23,759
  • Jul 22, 2011 11:52pm Jul 22, 2011 11:52pm
I beg you to close your trades TAH, because I love you too much.

Last few week has been all about accumulation, the BB manipulated price to get the best price possible, the drop last Monday has nothing to do, as we have seen now price has retraced back and stayed above it now. Why don't you see such a bullish scenario here, such a push through supply with high volume, close on its absolute high, there's a few sellers found on top, I expect it to retrace to 1.4300 for another leg up.

You know that adding to losing position is childish play.

You are playing with your perception, TAH, you refuse to be humble with the market, to be able to surrender to it, to be a slave of its mercy.
  • #23,760
  • Edited Jul 23, 2011 12:16am Jul 22, 2011 11:54pm | Edited Jul 23, 2011 12:16am
EU:

Daily - This past week the price moved up to the upper TL of a downwards sloping channel. The big day was Thursday when the market responded to "Bernanke's weak dollar committment" in support of the euro. Interestingly, however, Friday started a move down. Was the market fickle on Friday, or did the market take advantage of Bernanke's statements Thursday to rush the price back up while the excuse was there to do so,.....providing a higher starting, bigger profit point for the next substantial run down?

Weekly - Thursday's rushing of the price back upwards landed the price not only near the upper TL of that downwards sloping channel (red), but also at the mid-point TL of the larger TF upwards sloping channel (blue). This is the auspicious area from which to begin a whole new leg down to the lower TL of the larger TF channel!

To be bullish, I'd have to see the price move up thru those TLs. Meanwhile, I see more reason than ever to be bearish, perhaps cautiously at first until the price starts to confirm by moving lower.

So, the mind is knowledgeable and prepared for bull or bear. And each London session will be awaited to see how the markets decides to move the price for the day.

-tah
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