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  • #470,021
  • Jun 22, 2011 11:53pm Jun 22, 2011 11:53pm
Quoting infinitus
That is the point why it is contra-productive to trade naked (without indis).

One needs to watch momentum........
Perhaps you have found a combination of indi's that helps you manage your trades to your benefit. If so, good for you. However, to make a blanket statement that it is "counterproductive to trade without indi's" is, in my opinion, way off the mark. Personally, I think watching price alone is more telling and pure sign of momentum. You've heard before that indicators are lagging. So how can something that's lagging be better at telling momentum than something current? There are many ways to trade and each trader is different. It should never be assumed that one way is better than another.
  • #470,022
  • Jun 22, 2011 11:53pm Jun 22, 2011 11:53pm
Quoting attila
I'll hold my short to 4238 overnite. gn all.
Take care, if the EW count is right, we have finished the first 5-waves down.

This wave 1 can literally retraced to 100% without invalidating the count.

From this point you have now a bad R/R (asumig you have no SL set, have you?)
  • #470,023
  • Jun 22, 2011 11:54pm Jun 22, 2011 11:54pm
Quoting fxjawn
im breaking up with eur/usd...
Why? It sounded like you had a good position earlier. You were recriminating yourself over covering early, but in hindsight, you probably didn't leave a whole lot on the table, right?

It's the deepest market on the planet. Where else can you trade a million bucks worth of something for $20 in commission with buyers and sellers $50 away from each other?
  • #470,024
  • Jun 22, 2011 11:59pm Jun 22, 2011 11:59pm
Quoting OldQuant
Why? It sounded like you had a good position earlier. You were recriminating yourself over covering early, but in hindsight, you probably didn't leave a whole lot on the table, right?

It's the deepest market on the planet. Where else can you trade a million bucks worth of something for $20 in commission with buyers and sellers $50 away from each other?
lol i know im kidding i like to beat myself up for others humor...

this happens to be my fav pair other than gbp/jpy
  • #470,025
  • Jun 23, 2011 12:00am Jun 23, 2011 12:00am
Quoting 2+2=4ex
Perhaps you have found a combination of indi's that helps you manage your trades to your benefit. If so, good for you. However, to make a blanket statement that it is "counterproductive to trade without indi's" is, in my opinion, way off the mark. Personally, I think watching price alone is more telling and pure sign of momentum. You've heard before that indicators are lagging. So how can something that's lagging be better at telling momentum than something current? There are many ways to trade and each trader is different. It should never...
Trading naked is like having a serious illness without contacting a second health care professional for a second opinion.

To watch momentum they are in no way lagging. You only have to switch through the TF's or use a MTF-setup to see what momentum is doing in detail.

Works clearly best when used with EW......., then you know when you have to await divergences and when not.
  • #470,026
  • Jun 23, 2011 12:02am Jun 23, 2011 12:02am
Quoting OldQuant
Why? It sounded like you had a good position earlier. You were recriminating yourself over covering early, but in hindsight, you probably didn't leave a whole lot on the table, right?

It's the deepest market on the planet. Where else can you trade a million bucks worth of something for $20 in commission with buyers and sellers $50 away from each other?
na i didnt leave much at all... im planning to do this for a living i just cant make that move yet... not enough capital and i still have things to learn... my goal will be accomplished though
  • #470,027
  • Jun 23, 2011 12:04am Jun 23, 2011 12:04am
Quoting PayTheLimit
your not the first, she's very high maintenance...
ya i have been cheating on her with uj and gy
  • #470,028
  • Jun 23, 2011 12:05am Jun 23, 2011 12:05am
Quoting infinitus
Trading naked is like having a serious illness without contacting a second health care professional for a second opinion.

To watch momentum they are in no way lagging. You only have to switch through the TF's or use a MTF-setup to see what momentum is doing in detail.

Works clearly best when used with EW......., then you know when you have to await divergences and when not.
I don't comprehend. If all you need are multiple timeframes to determine momentum, where do the indicators come in to play? Isn't using multiple timeframes (without indicators) the same as trading naked?
  • #470,029
  • Jun 23, 2011 12:07am Jun 23, 2011 12:07am
Quoting gatorinla
4311 seems to be holding atm... but pa atm points to higher. will post in a sec
we may have to go to 4277.9 first. i dont know.. but im selling the bounce. trying to not sell the low. 4377.9 is a 2008 #.. give or take 7 pips. i always expect a bounce there ..when we get away from it for a while. in the pa sequence in this months move. 4265.8 may be a bounce .. helped by 4277 near by. 4365.8 is part of the same sequence as 4311 47 84 4421 ect.
those who can, do. those who cant, talk about those who can
  • #470,030
  • Jun 23, 2011 12:10am Jun 23, 2011 12:10am
Quoting 2+2=4ex
I don't comprehend. If all you need are multiple timeframes to determine momentum, where do the indicators come in to play? Isn't using multiple timeframes (without indicators) the same as trading naked?
Thought it was clear that I meant MTF with momentum indi on it......
  • #470,031
  • Jun 23, 2011 12:12am Jun 23, 2011 12:12am
Quoting 2+2=4ex
Personally, I think watching price alone is more telling and pure sign of momentum.
You're right about that, almost by definition: all indicators are combinations of past prices, and so they lag. Oscillator, moving average, trend line, they all lag.

But another aspect of the issue is scalability. I don't mean trading larger amounts; I mean trading longer and across more things. The best pa analyst in the world has to sleep. Scalability means automation.

And automation means your trading is run by the stupidest thing in the world: a machine. Even if there were good ways to program what you know and see and sense in price action, they would be so complex as to be fraught with errors of omission. The programs that run these things, whether high freq at Goldman or an EA in MT4, have to be simple. And that's where indicators come in.

So it's a tortoise and hare thing. If you can pull 100 pips out in 6 hours through your skill and experience, and a machine can pull 30 out in 6 hours, it's going to take the lead, because it's doing that for 24 hours a day.
  • #470,032
  • Jun 23, 2011 12:12am Jun 23, 2011 12:12am
Quoting fxjawn
ya i have been cheating on her with uj and gy

dude....
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  • #470,033
  • Jun 23, 2011 12:20am Jun 23, 2011 12:20am
Quoting gatorinla
we may have to go to 4277.9 first. i dont know.. but im selling the bounce. trying to not sell the low. 4377.9 is a 2008 #.. give or take 7 pips. i always expect a bounce there ..when we get away from it for a while. in the pa sequence in this months move. 4265.8 may be a bounce .. helped by 4277 near by. 4365.8 is part of the same sequence as 4311 47 84 4421 ect.
Hi Gator,

in this point I am with you. We "might" see a further bounce toward 4278.

I am not sure, if wave 1 down concluded already, or if we are now only in a subwave 4 action. But target for this subwave 4 is again around 4320-4340
  • #470,034
  • Jun 23, 2011 12:21am Jun 23, 2011 12:21am
Quoting fxjawn
ya i have been cheating on her with uj and guys
Just so long as you haven't been cheating the way I edited it. Not sure about markets, but women hate that.
  • #470,035
  • Jun 23, 2011 12:21am Jun 23, 2011 12:21am
Quoting PayTheLimit
dude....
lololol
  • #470,036
  • Jun 23, 2011 12:22am Jun 23, 2011 12:22am
Quoting OldQuant
Just so long as you haven't been cheating the way I edited it. Not sure about markets, but women hate that.
lol, thats how rumors get started...
Look Sharp/Trade Tight
  • #470,037
  • Jun 23, 2011 12:22am Jun 23, 2011 12:22am
I'm getting biased by this channel again, will need a retest of 4285 in the next hour or two, then a rejection and sharp rebound. Daily pivot just above @4290.
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Don't get mad, get even!
  • #470,038
  • Jun 23, 2011 12:23am Jun 23, 2011 12:23am
Quoting OldQuant
Jawn... you are the best trader ever...
thank u oldquant
  • #470,039
  • Jun 23, 2011 12:26am Jun 23, 2011 12:26am
Quoting OldQuant
You're right about that, almost by definition: all indicators are combinations of past prices, and so they lag. Oscillator, moving average, trend line, they all lag.

But another aspect of the issue is scalability. I don't mean trading larger amounts; I mean trading longer and across more things. The best pa analyst in the world has to sleep. Scalability means automation.

And automation means your trading is run by the stupidest thing in the world: a machine. Even if there were good ways to program what you know and see and sense in price action,...
I get what your saying about scalability with regards to time and constant trading through automation and indicators (basically programmed trading). That's a different topic though. The objection I was making was in regards to trading naked versus trading with an indicator. Let's assume the best trader was not asleep and at his desk. Which method is better? Will he make more pips with a momentum indicator or with a naked chart? The answer is no one knows. There are times where an indicator will work better versus a naked chart and vice versa. No one knows how things will play out. So how can someone say that it's counterproductive? To me that's not accurate. I am not defending naked charts.

There's also the matter of each trader has a differing personality, but that's going deeper into things.
  • #470,040
  • Jun 23, 2011 12:26am Jun 23, 2011 12:26am
11 is a stiff upper lip...
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