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VO-Pro: Comprehensive visual order management system for MT4

  • #221
  • Edited 12:58am May 19, 2011 12:44am | Edited 12:58am
Quoting hanover
Alex, thanks for your ideas.


You could enter your 2.55% split as 2.55%,1,1,1 if you wanted, because all VO does is divide each portion by the sum the portions, i.e.

Order#1 = 1/(1+1+1) x 2.55% = 0.85%
Order#2 = 1/(1+1+1) x 2.55% = 0.85%
Order#3 = 1/(1+1+1) x 2.55% = 0.85%

This would result in exactly the same size orders as your...
Thanks for the help... Glad to see it is already an option, but testing it now I am having some problems.

It works perfectly for limit orders to split them accordingly however for market orders it will place 1 order (sometimes 2) then produce an error. I've attached the image. I thought it may have something to do with slippage so I changed it to 99 pips but it did the same thing. In this screenshot I tried "10%,1,1,1". Any ideas?

[Edit]
I may have figured it out... I changed the "Wait Time (seconds)" from 0 to 0.5 and it is working consistently now. Maybe it was trying to send too many orders at the same time?

Either way I am very happy to get these fractional splits working... it really saves so much time that I don't need Excel anymore. Thank you so much for this tool David.
Attached Image
  • #222
  • May 19, 2011 4:52am May 19, 2011 4:52am
Quoting kosai
Thanks for the help... Glad to see it is already an option, but testing it now I am having some problems.

It works perfectly for limit orders to split them accordingly however for market orders it will place 1 order (sometimes 2) then produce an error. I've attached the image. I thought it may have something to do with slippage so I changed it to 99 pips but it did the same thing. In this screenshot I tried "10%,1,1,1". Any ideas?

[Edit]
I may have figured it out... I changed the "Wait Time (seconds)" from...
Alex,

I've attempted 5 times to place batches pf 3 orders using Go Markets' MT4, and had no problems. Who is your br0ker? I will download their MT4 platform and give it a try.

The 'Wait Time' works hand-in-hand with the 'Execution attempts'. If the latter remains set at 1 then the wait has no bearing. Each of the 3 orders is actually processed individually.

I note that the failure is on the SELL order with zero SL and TP. This means that the SL/TP is being (automatically and transparently) sent as a separate Modify instruction, which is necessary with most ECN/STP br0kers; and also that the failure is in placing the original sell order. The only thing that I can think of is that the market price has moved, and the Bid price at which the sell is being executed is no longer valid, hence the error "Invalid price". I'm not sure how the slippage parameter works with ECN/STP br0kers.

Hence you might want to increase the 'Execution attempts' to (say) 3, with a 1 or 2 second wait between each. That way, at least 3 attempts will be made to place each component order. The loop is exited, possibly before the 3 attempts have been made, as soon as the order is placed successfully (hence there is no time being unnecessarily wasted, if you increase 'Execution attempts') and an error will only be posted if all attempts fail. (See the process schematic below).

There is a file named Errors Log.TXT in your ..../(MT4)/experts/files folder. It contains even more diagnostic information than the screenshot that you provided. If you could attach it to a post, I will investigate further for you.

Ideally, I'd like to get as many problems sorted before I launch the product.

Thanks,
David

[EDIT]

The order send process works like this (assume Trade Risk = X%,1,1,1):

LOOP for each of the 3 component orders (outer loop)

--- LOOP 'Execution attempts' TIMES (inner loop)
------ IF 'ECN/STP' br0ker setting is on and it's a market order, place the order with SL/TP = 0
------ ELSE place the order with the SL/TP set to the user-specified levels
------ IF order was placed successfully, EXIT the inner loop
------ WAIT for the specified 'Wait time' (seconds)
------ return to top of inner loop to try again, until number of 'Execution attempts' is exceeded
--- END INNER LOOP

--- IF there was an error posted after all of the execution attempts, halt the process and display the error screen

--- IF 'ECN/STP' br0ker setting is on and it's a market order
----- LOOP 'Execution attempts' TIMES (inner loop)
-------- Attempt to Modify the order with the user-specified SL/TP
-------- IF modification was successful, EXIT the inner loop
-------- WAIT for the specified 'Wait time' (seconds)
-------- return to top of inner loop to try again, until number of 'Execution attempts' is exceeded
----- END INNER LOOP
--- END IF

--- IF there was an error posted after all of the execution attempts (for the modify process), halt the process and display the error screen

Now return to the top of the outer loop to place the next component order

END OUTER LOOP (if no more component orders to place)
  • #223
  • May 19, 2011 5:14am May 19, 2011 5:14am
Quoting kosai
Thanks for the help... Glad to see it is already an option, but testing it now I am having some problems. ......
Some more thoughts:

With the traditional market-maker type br0kers, if the price moved while your order was awaiting being processed, then provided that the price operated within your 'slippage' setting, the order would be processed at the less favorable price; otherwise MT4 would return a "Requote" error, and you'd have to re-submit the order.

With the advent of ECN/STP, many br0kers have been promoting a "No requotes" policy to gain more clients, and on many MT4 'New order' screens, the 'slippage' parameter seems to have disappeared, hence I'm not sure whether it now has any impact. I believe there are a large number of parameters at the br0ker MT4 end of the process, allowing each br0ker to handle the their fill operation in a number of different ways.

One thing I could try would be to change the VO-Pro program code, so that (while it was re-attempting to place the order, via the 'Execution attempts' facility) is to reset the order price to whatever the market is currently asking. However, this would mean introducing (the possibility of) slippage, which I'm reluctant to do; I could create another 'Max slippage allowed' parameter in VOConsole, but this would complicate things further.

David
  • #224
  • May 19, 2011 11:23am May 19, 2011 11:23am
Quoting hanover
Alex,

I've attempted 5 times to place batches pf 3 orders using Go Markets' MT4, and had no problems. Who is your br0ker? I will download their MT4 platform and give it a try.

The 'Wait Time' works hand-in-hand with the 'Execution attempts'. If the latter remains set at 1 then the wait has no bearing. Each of the 3 orders is actually processed individually.

I note that the failure is on the SELL order with zero SL and TP. This means that the SL/TP is being (automatically and transparently) sent as a separate Modify instruction, which is necessary...
Thanks for the fast reply as always David... and after a few more orders the error has returned. I was playing around with the script by changing almost all parameters but it continues to occur. I am beginning to think it is just a problem with the broker. I am using Alpari NZ on their dealing desk server. I've turned on/off the ECN order option (and most others options) but it continues to problem. With a 2 order split I'd say 80% the time it works fine, but 3 and 4 order splits will open 1 or 2 positions but the 3rd and 4th about 90% the time will fail with the invalid price error.

I've also tried playing with the slippage thinking it may be due to Alpari NZ using pipettes, but no value high or small has made any difference. Maybe it is just related to how the broker will accept market orders?

Attached is the error log file you've asked for with the settings you recommended.

Cheers.

Alex
Attached File(s)
File Type: txt Errors Log.txt   26 KB | 547 downloads
  • #225
  • Edited 6:45pm May 19, 2011 6:26pm | Edited 6:45pm
Quoting kosai
Thanks for the fast reply as always David...
Alex,

I have found and fixed the problem. It was as I expected, i.e. the market price was changing during the placement of the orders, and Alpari were not accepting the new orders at the original price, hence Error 129.

VOConsole v2.10 will have a new checkbox parameter 'ECN/STP br0ker: allow slippage if interim price move'. You will need to check this ON. This means that you accept the last offered price even though it might have changed since you clicked the EXECUTE button; it further means that all of your component may not necessarily be executed at the same price, and hence that their RR calculations may be different.

There's a slim possibility that the price may change during the split second between VO amending it, and the time it reaches the br0ker - there is nothing that I can do about that.

I placed several batches of orders with this setting checked off, and got error 129 many times. With the setting checked on, error 129 did not occur.

I will release VO v 2.10 shortly. It also contains other fixes and enhancements. See post #1 for details.

One of the other fixes may affect you: if the lot size of any of the component orders is lower than the minimum allowed by the br0ker, Error 131 ("Invalid trade volume") should now correctly be posted. Previously, nothing was happening - the order(s) were not being placed, and there was no error notification.

Again, many thanks for helping me to make this a stable product.

David
______________

Some observations about Alpari NZ:

--- as far as I know they are not based in New Zealand (where I happen to live myself), they are a Russian based company.

--- on some of their other account types, their minimum pos size is 3 lots, and they charge a hefty commission in addition to spreads

--- the spread on the GBPUSD got as high as 15.6 pips at one point (and it wasn't during a news announcement)

--- they are significantly slower at accepting orders than my br0ker, Go Markets (although we are talking demo platforms, of course)
  • #226
  • May 19, 2011 7:22pm May 19, 2011 7:22pm
VO-Pro version 2.09 expires on May 22.

To avoid getting a pop-up window/message similar to the one shown in post #124, you'll need to downaload and install version 2.10 from post #1.

Hopefully this will be the final release ....... unless more bugs are reported.

David
  • #227
  • May 19, 2011 8:33pm May 19, 2011 8:33pm
Quoting hanover
Alex,

I have found and fixed the problem. It was as I expected, i.e. the market price was changing during the placement of the orders, and Alpari were not accepting the new orders at the original price, hence Error 129.

VOConsole v2.10 will have a new checkbox parameter 'ECN/STP br0ker: allow slippage if interim price move'. You will need to check this ON. This means that you accept the last offered price even though it might have changed since you clicked the EXECUTE button; it further means that all of your component may not necessarily be executed...
Many thanks for your quick responses and speedy fix to the software. Glad to see a developer that really cares about producing a quality product.

As far as Alpari NZ I'm well aware of your points and appreciate the warnings. The only reason I use this broker is because they have the "best" (most accurate) volume of any broker I've come across. As a result of this a lot of my trading patterns over the years were developed from this broker. As you know, the OHLC of the bars can change wildly from one dealing desk to the next. This "manipulation" of prices is very consistent with Alpari NZ specifically, and gives me a big enough advantage to trade on their dealing desk. Long term however I do plan to trade an ECN with another Metatrader broker.

I really can't say enough good things about your app... It really has changed the way I trade. Before I literally spent 2 to 5 minutes of painstaking risk analysis and trade management using an Excel spreadsheet that took me months to develop. Now it is done in 10-30 seconds.

Thanks again.

Alex
  • #228
  • May 21, 2011 7:31am May 21, 2011 7:31am
David,

I frequently manage trades by scaling out of 1/2 of my position once in profit in order to create a "free ride". I just noticed the "Free Ride" option under the "Close Rules" in the Order screen. Can you explain how I would use this option to accomplish scaling out? I'm just unclear about the mechanics.
"Amat Victoria Curam" Victory Loves Preparation
  • #229
  • Edited 2:57pm May 21, 2011 12:34pm | Edited 2:57pm
Quoting daytrade5
David,

I frequently manage trades by scaling out of 1/2 of my position once in profit in order to create a "free ride". I just noticed the "Free Ride" option under the "Close Rules" in the Order screen. Can you explain how I would use this option to accomplish scaling out? I'm just unclear about the mechanics.
DT5,

The "free ride" is a powerful MM-based exit strategy that will close enough of your position to ensure that, if the remainder of your position were to retrace to the (current position of your) SL, you would nonetheless exit with an overall profit outcome of $X.

You simply type your desired value of X alongside the "free ride" option in the Close Rules wizard's menu of options.


Example: To keep the math easy, let's say your position size is 1 lot on EURUSD = $10/pip. You're currently 60 pips ($600) in profit, and your SL is 20 pips ($200) below the original entry level. You want a "free ride" that will safely bank $400 overall, even if the (rest of your) trade was to tank to the SL. Hence you enter a free ride of $400, and the 'VO Close & Delete Orders' script calculates that it must close 0.75 lots to achieve this, i.e.

Amount banked = 0.75 lots x $600 = $450
Loss incurred by remaining position = 0.25 lots x $200 = $50
Hence net outcome = $450 – $50 = $400

 

  1. If the value you enter is positive (>0), then the free ride works as shown above.
  2. If the value you enter is 0, then the free ride will ensure that the overall result is breakeven.
  3. If the value you enter is negative (<0), then the free ride ensures that the overall loss is limited to $X.

  1. The trade must currently be in profit for the free ride to operate correctly.
  2. Attempting to use a free ride on a trade that's currently in loss is obviously meaningless.
  3. Likewise, if you have already moved the SL to or beyond breakeven, then you're already guaranteed a profit, making a free ride meaningless.


Algebra: the formula used by VO-Pro is

X = (F+L)/(P+L)

where:
X = the fraction of the total position that must be closed, to ensure a free ride
F = the amount that you want to safely bank overall (the amount of the free ride that you enter)
L = the amount of the loss that must be compensated for ($200 in the above example)
P = the amount that your trade is currently in profit ($600 in the above example)

In the above example: X = (400+200)/(600+200) = 0.75

Hence 75% of the 1 lot position should be closed = 0.75 lots


NOTES:

1. If you select multiple orders on VOConsole's Orders List window, then the same free ride value that you enter is applied to each order individually. Thus if you had 3 orders currently in profit, and requested a free ride of $400, then your overall outcome would be a guaranteed $400 per trade, or $1,200. You can select all profitable orders quickly by clicking VOConsole's '+Profitable' button. (The same principle applies to all 'VO Modify Orders' and 'VO Close & Delete Orders' options: selecting multiple orders permits a rule to be applied 'in bulk' to all selected orders).

2. Of course you can use the 'VO Modify Orders' script to move the SL location before applying the free ride.

3. The free ride is a MM-based alternative to moving your SL. You can guarantee a "no worse than" outcome while still giving your trade room to move. Of course it's perfectly permissible to use a combination of both, e.g. advance the SL to reduce the loss, and then free ride the position.

David

  • #230
  • May 21, 2011 4:55pm May 21, 2011 4:55pm
David,

You exceeded my expectations with your detailed explaination. I just want to make sure that I am clear on the mechanics on using the "Free Ride" order modification. Let's say that I want to automatically scale out to ensure a worse case scenario breakeven situation.

1. Select the existing order in the Order screen.
2. Go to "Close Rules" and enter 0 in the "Free Ride" box and hit the save button.
3. Next do I simply minimize the order window and everything will be executed? Or, do I have to hit the execute button????

Thank you in advance for all of your asisstance which includes the effort you put into detailing your explanations.
"Amat Victoria Curam" Victory Loves Preparation
  • #231
  • Edited May 22, 2011 2:12pm May 21, 2011 8:34pm | Edited May 22, 2011 2:12pm
Quoting daytrade5
David,

You exceeded my expectations with your detailed explaination. I just want to make sure that I am clear on the mechanics on using the "Free Ride" order modification. .........
Sorry, I misunderstood.

The process is as follows:

1. Select the desired order in VOConsole's Orders List window.

2. Click the wizard button next to Close Rules (or press Shift-F8). Then enter 0 into the Free Ride field and click SAVE (or press ENTER). The result F$0 will be pasted back into the Close Rules. That means "Free ride, overall result breakeven".

Or alternatively, you could simply type F$0 into Close Rules.

3. Attach the 'VO Close & Delete Orders' script to ANY chart (it doesn't have to be the same pair as your selected one --- the Close/Delete function applies to ALL SELECTED orders).

4. You will get a pop-up message telling you which order(s) will be closed and how many lots, e.g. "Order #12345678 ........ CLOSE 0.09 of 0.24 lots". Click OK to proceed with the transaction, or CANCEL to abort the process.

NOTE:

--- The 'VO Create New Order' and 'VO Modify Orders' scripts use VOConsole's EXECUTE and CANCEL buttons.

--- However, the 'VO Close & Delete Orders' script uses the pop-up message window, allowing you to verify the details of what will happen before committing the transaction.

To state the obvious: If you're scalping in a fast-moving market, then price changes that occur between the time VO-Pro calculates the size that is to be closed, and the time you click the OK button, could cause inaccuracies.

Please try this on a demo account, and check that you get the result that you expect, before running it live.

David
  • #232
  • May 23, 2011 1:34am May 23, 2011 1:34am
David,

Could you attach as previously VO version for older MT4 builds as I'm getting critical errors? Additionally smth which I forgot to mention before - everytime there is a new version I've to set my settings once again - is'it possible it will be kept in some kind of .ini. VO will probably evolve as commercial version as well and this small functionality would be very helpfull.

rgds
  • #233
  • May 23, 2011 3:29am May 23, 2011 3:29am
Quoting onimodo
David,

Could you attach as previously VO version for older MT4 builds as I'm getting critical errors? Additionally smth which I forgot to mention before - everytime there is a new version I've to set my settings once again - is'it possible it will be kept in some kind of .ini. VO will probably evolve as commercial version as well and this small functionality would be very helpfull.

rgds
Onimodo,

I must admit that I'm curious to know why anybody would not want to upgrade to the latest MT4 build - for example, are there bugs that we should all be aware of? Anyway, I'll try to find a br0ker from whom I can download an old version of MT4, at least for the meantime. Going forward, I would prefer to maintain only one version of VO-Pro, unless there is a compelling reason not to do so.

About the settings: you can save your settings as a Preset, and then recall them with a single mouse click. I explained how to do this back in post #181, point 4. Versions prior to 2.10 deleted all presets when installing the new release, because I was still finalizing the file structure (presets are saved in files named .../experts/files/VO-<presetname>.SAV). However, from version 2.10 onward, these files will not be deleted, whenever you install a new release.

David
  • #234
  • May 23, 2011 3:43am May 23, 2011 3:43am
Quoting hanover
Onimodo,

I must admit that I'm curious to know why anybody would not want to upgrade to the latest MT4 build

About the settings: you can save your settings as a Preset,
David
1. I fully agree there should be one version and I wanted to update MT - the reason is I can't upgrade mine now. Few weeks ago it reminded about new version. Now even I start LiveUpdate separately - does't work. I know there is a problem with it on Vista (but set terminal.exe to be started in "admin mode" - no difference). So probably need to do reinstall - or maybe you've an idea.

2. Thx - wasn't aware of it :-)
  • #235
  • Edited 4:18am May 23, 2011 3:48am | Edited 4:18am
Quoting hanover
I'll try to find a br0ker from whom I can download an old version of MT4, at least for the meantime.
Onimodo,

I have attached a new ZIP file to post #1. You'll need to download it into your MT4 folder as before, and the v2.10 scripts will overwrite their existing counterparts in the ..../experts/scripts folder. These scripts have been compiled on IBFX MT4 build 225.

David
  • #236
  • May 23, 2011 4:31am May 23, 2011 4:31am
THX David !!!

Will solve MT4 Live Update to work on the newest version as well.
  • #237
  • May 26, 2011 7:47am May 26, 2011 7:47am
6. Enhancements to setup process: this now automatically creates both program groups and icons on your desktop for VOConsole; a link to this thread; and a link to the YouTube channel with all of the instructional videos. It also sets up all of the hotkeys and favorites in MT4 for all of the VO-Pro scripts.

If I am using 3 instances side by side on the same computer -- how would you recommend applying the VO Pro? I have been opening the console first before each instance is started -- this seems to be working fine but once in a while I will have to restart a console or instance... Is there any way to rename or identify the desktop icons so I can open them from the desktop icon for each instance?

Thanks!
  • #238
  • May 26, 2011 1:19pm May 26, 2011 1:19pm
Running this with Smart Live Markets demo. When i execute a trade sometimes the SL & TP entry in MT4 move a few pips from where the rays are placed. Don't mind the TP as that can be changed but the SL moving alters the trade percentage.

Great little program by the way.
  • #239
  • May 26, 2011 2:51pm May 26, 2011 2:51pm
Quoting neil324
Running this with Smart Live Markets demo. When i execute a trade sometimes the SL & TP entry in MT4 move a few pips from where the rays are placed. Don't mind the TP as that can be changed but the SL moving alters the trade percentage.

Great little program by the way.
Neil,

Thanks for taking the time to test drive VO-Pro.

I assume that the problem you describe is because you have VOConsole's 'Adjust for Spread' box checked ON.

If this box is checked on, the lines created by VO are plotted at the BID price, so that you can match them with the candles on your chart, whose Open, High, Low and Close prices are always BID prices.

As you know, when we BUY, we must enter at the ASK price, and close the trade at the BID price (thus paying the spread to the br0ker). Hence, with a buy order, MT4 will create the entry point at the ASK price, while the VO line is at the BID price. But it will create the TP and SL at the BID prices, i.e. the same level as the VO lines.

When we SELL, the opposite applies: we must enter at the BID price and close the trade at the ASK price. Hence, with a sell order, MT4 will create the entry point at the same level as the VO line, and the TP and SL at the ASK price, while VO's lines are at the BID price.

The numbered values shown by VO (above the lines) always represent the actual prices (BID or ASK) that MT4 will post into the terminal area. It is only the lines that are offset, so that you can align them accurately with the BID prices of the candles, indicators, etc on your chart.

If you check VOConsole's 'Adjust for Spread' box OFF, then all of the entry, TP and SL points created by MT4 will exactly match the VO lines, but you will need to adjust for the spread (e.g. in the RR calculations) manually.

You can check the box off, and then on, repeatedly if you like, after the VO lines appear on the chart. It is interesting to see how much the spread affects the risk to return ratio of the trade!

I hope that makes sense.

David
  • #240
  • Edited 3:55pm May 26, 2011 3:01pm | Edited 3:55pm
Quoting Optimystic
6. Enhancements to setup process: this now automatically creates both program groups and icons on your desktop for VOConsole; a link to this thread; and a link to the YouTube channel with all of the instructional videos. It also sets up all of the hotkeys and favorites in MT4 for all of the VO-Pro scripts.

If I am using 3 instances side by side on the same computer -- how would you recommend applying the VO Pro?...
Optimystic,

After you run VOsetup.EXE for each install, you'd need to right-click on the 'VO Console' icon and rename it from 'VO Console' to something like 'VO Console (Alpari)' or 'VO Console (MT4 instance #1)'.

Otherwise, each time you run VOsetup.EXE, it must overwrite any icon named 'VO Console', because Windows requires that each item on your desktop must have a unique name.

The icons on the desktop are merely links, or shortcuts, to the actual VOConsole.EXE application program, which resides in the ..../(MT4)/experts/files folder. Of course you're welcome to make additional links, delete any links, drag links to your Quick Launch bar or to another folder, ..... whatever you wish. None of this has any effect on the VOConsole.EXE app itself.

The other desktop icons created are links to (1) this FF thread, and (2) to the YouTube channel where all of the instructional videos are located. It doesn't matter if these links get overwritten each time the VOsetup.EXE is run. You can delete these links if you don't need them.

Hope this makes sense.

David
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