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CHOROS System

  • #5,021
  • May 20, 2011 7:40am May 20, 2011 7:40am
Quoting asos101
i'm losing enough with one monitor only, imagine if i had 2, 3 or more

Members of the choros thread never lose, we sometimes take a break because we don't want others to envy us.
  • #5,022
  • May 20, 2011 7:53am May 20, 2011 7:53am
Quoting K_Minos
Members of the choros thread never lose, we sometimes take a break because we don't want others to envy us.
Choros is fine, as a gazillion other systems here in ff.
as another poster states in his sig..

"usually the problem with my trading is somewhere between my chair and my keyboard"
  • #5,023
  • May 20, 2011 8:06am May 20, 2011 8:06am
Quoting asos101
Choros is fine, as a gazillion other systems here in ff.
as another poster states in his sig..

"usually the problem with my trading is somewhere between my chair and my keyboard"
But this is seriously the only strategy that I'm attracted enough to put so much devotion into. I'd go to other threads that repels me with
1)Overcomplicated rules
2)Superficial, underdevelopment(those that get killed in ranging markets) and
3)NO SL! This is practised by some seemingly successful traders here, but to me it's just madness.

I'm not a Gaga fan, but despite all her crazy antics, "just dance" makes a whole lot of sense
  • #5,024
  • May 20, 2011 8:44am May 20, 2011 8:44am
Quoting natnimrey
But this is seriously the only strategy that I'm attracted enough to put so much devotion into. I'd go to other threads that repels me with
1)Overcomplicated rules
2)Superficial, underdevelopment(those that get killed in ranging markets) and
3)NO SL! This is practised by some seemingly successful traders here, but to me it's just madness.

I'm not a Gaga fan, but despite all her crazy antics, "just dance" makes a whole lot of sense
i dont say i have read yet a whole lot of FF but Dance/Choros is one of the best ways to learn to watch the price and how it will react in certain situations. i have seen also others to mention it for exactly that in various threads.
i also like the complete lack of indicators which are in essence lagging MAs.
but as any system it requires 2 things apart from knowing the rules (which i obviously lack so far).
Patience and Dedication.

i have also others say it requires speed. i would split that into speed of judgment (faith in your system) and speed of execution, being it to get In or Out.

say 5 hours ago in EU there was a perfect 2 bar retrace in M15.
but i didnt only see that, i also saw (or thought i did) that the next bar would be a leg that would make the price rally up. if you see the chart there if it would there was no resistance till the H4 35 over 120pips away.

so i enter, the price goes up my way for 10 pips, now that would be a good time to at least move my SL, or exit and keep my profit.

but because i had "seen the future" and because this was a demo trade, i was confident to let it run, even thought it gives me another opportunity to take +10 pips or at least BE. but i again ignore it and then it reverses, so there you go, i let yet again a winner turn into loser.

lately i read another thread where a "Niceguy" speaks or risking ridiculously small and winning ridiculously big. he has indicators in his templates but he personally never use them to take a trade, he uses only 6 MAs in total.
but what is the secret in this method?
so far from what i see to risk small you got to have the best entries possible, that means if you miss your opportunity then the advantage is gone, either way if it comes back or forget it and go for the next. taking a late entry almost always will mess you in some way.
now once in profit you shoot for the stars, but not without having secured at least a BE. if you have your ass covered feel free to let the trade run.

even Kostas says, take the pips and run. he originally closed trades for 7-15 pips. then he would make more correct calls, entering at better spots and he would fast secure a profit, from then on he could let it run but never let it come completely back at him and take him out in -ve profit.

anyways, sorry for the big post, just a few thoughts of what i have gathered so far from my reading here in FF.
  • #5,025
  • May 20, 2011 10:04am May 20, 2011 10:04am
Quoting kostas1
I mean that in a good trend (e.g. long) the 10 should be above the 35 and the 35 should be above the 50.
Looking at the GU H1 today you can see why the order is important. There was presumably an uptrend but the 50 was above the 35 (as asos101 mentioned) and look what happened. These areas should be traded carefully or not at all....
  • #5,026
  • May 20, 2011 10:05am May 20, 2011 10:05am
Quoting AndreyBecker
Did anyone take this trade on gbp/usd? i was stopped out..
The M15 MAs are flat, meaning no trades
  • #5,027
  • May 20, 2011 10:18am May 20, 2011 10:18am
Quoting asos101
even Kostas says, take the pips and run. he originally closed trades for 7-15 pips.
This is still how I mostly trade. Get 2-3 of these trades and done for the day!
  • #5,028
  • May 20, 2011 10:19am May 20, 2011 10:19am
Quoting asos101
Choros is fine, as a gazillion other systems here in ff.
as another poster states in his sig..

"usually the problem with my trading is somewhere between my chair and my keyboard"
I agree with you 100%. But when it comes to me and before I will sit in my chair I strongly believe that I am going to win, if by any chance I am thinking that I am going to lose then I move my butt and go elsewhere to spend my money. Secondly I am trying to follow the rules 100%, no emotions, after that when I take a trade the market can move against me or for me, it is not in my power to control the market, I will move on what ever happens.
  • #5,029
  • May 20, 2011 10:31am May 20, 2011 10:31am
Quoting kostas1
The M15 MAs are flat, meaning no trades
yep, i havent seen anything flattier than that sir =P
  • #5,030
  • May 20, 2011 10:33am May 20, 2011 10:33am
Quoting K_Minos
I agree with you 100%. But when it comes to me and before I will sit in my chair I strongly believe that I am going to win, if by any chance I am thinking that I am going to lose then I move my butt and go elsewhere to spend my money. Secondly I am trying to follow the rules 100%, no emotions, after that when I take a trade the market can move against me or for me, it is not in my power to control the market, I will move on what ever happens.
if its not you, then it must be your keyboard =P
heh, just messing
  • #5,031
  • May 20, 2011 11:10am May 20, 2011 11:10am
Quoting kostas1
The M15 MAs are flat, meaning no trades
okay thanks.. i don´t know, why i took this trade... for 2 weeks i was very profitable and took nearly perfect trades, after that i had 2 weeks no time to trade and now i can´t feel the market again
  • #5,032
  • May 21, 2011 1:56am May 21, 2011 1:56am
Quoting natnimrey
But this is seriously the only strategy that I'm attracted enough to put so much devotion into. I'd go to other threads that repels me with
1)Overcomplicated rules
2)Superficial, underdevelopment(those that get killed in ranging markets) and
3)NO SL! This is practised by some seemingly successful traders here, but to me it's just madness.

I'm not a Gaga fan, but despite all her crazy antics, "just dance" makes a whole lot of sense
No SL????

That reminds me of..... time for another CHOROS video....

Inserted Video
  • #5,033
  • May 21, 2011 3:27am May 21, 2011 3:27am
Quoting asos101
so far from what i see to risk small you got to have the best entries possible, that means if you miss your opportunity then the advantage is gone, either way if it comes back or forget it and go for the next. taking a late entry almost always will mess you in some way.
now once in profit you shoot for the stars, but not without having secured at least a BE. if you have your ass covered feel free to let the trade run.

even Kostas says, take the pips and run. he originally closed trades for 7-15 pips. then he would make more correct calls, entering...
Indeed that's the trick I think. When I trade this way I win, but at some point I ger overconfident and I lose again.

As a matter of fact, when I am self-collected and calm I find I can successfuly trade in other ways too. Eg in many cases I can trade successfully with flat MAs and ranging action. Probably this is even easier because price moves more slowly and you have more time to examine all timeframes and see whether it's going to reverse at the channel boundary.

But I'm not happy at all with myself when I enter trades hastily and without all the signals I would like to have, and this is where I lose. Sometimes this is because I get impatient not seeing any good opportunity. Other times I see many lost opportunities and I get impatient again.

I think that the main problem is that I also have a job that keeps distracting me from getting the feel of the market

Anyway, I think I'm slowly getting there because now I know whether I should have entered a trade or not at the moment I enter. It's just self-discipline from there.

What I'm currently contemplating is how exactly to proceed with moving the stop loss to BE. On one hand, I'm pretty happy when I never lose because I have moved my stop quickly enough. On the other hand, I don't like it all when I'm taken out at BE and then I see I would have had a winning trade if only I had kept my original stop loss.
  • #5,034
  • May 21, 2011 5:50am May 21, 2011 5:50am
Quoting micmic
Indeed that's the trick I think. When I trade this way I win, but at some point I ger overconfident and I lose again.
the author of a thread i am reading lately says that the
>worst thing is when you do something wrong and it sometimes work, because you will keep repeating it.<
my priority now is to get 1-2 moves that work and perfect them, make it effortless to recognize them and know them inside out.
by this i dont only mean when to enter but also when they failed and will turn into a loser.
be it i close them early or i cover my ass early by making them BE or even take a small loss if need to.

Quoting micmic
I think that the main problem is that I also have a job that keeps distracting me from getting the feel of the market
Actually i think if you have a job that lets you have a sporadic look at the market, say like Kostas, its good because your dayjob keeps you from rushing to take every call you see on the chart.
i see it also, that when i have work to do on my PC and leave a chart open on the laptop by my side and glance it every now and then, i am much more relaxed and controlled in my decisions.

Quoting micmic
Anyway, I think I'm slowly getting there because now I know whether I should have entered a trade or not at the moment I enter. It's just self-discipline from there.
Great, i see it too i am near completing my first year in forex and the difference is huge. lately i make a good % of correct calls but if i hold on them long enough a big % will eventually turn to losers. so thats why its important to enter as close to perfect and also feel when its not working any more and exit.

Quoting micmic
What I'm currently contemplating is how exactly to proceed with moving the stop loss to BE. On one hand, I'm pretty happy when I never lose because I have moved my stop quickly enough. On the other hand, I don't like it all when I'm taken out at BE and then I see I would have had a winning trade if only I had kept my original stop loss.
we all have this dont we? its called GREED, it makes us "see things".
i am initially correct i enter long and the market moves my way for say 6-7 pips.. then i see it stalls, oh wait is it coming back at me now? so i sit and watch as the rabbit looks ecstatic at lights as the train is coming towards me. it moves past your entry, now you see RED. and i say i cant close it now, i will lose. sometimes i even moved my SL to another support area because "no way is gonna go past that". heh, guess what? those were by biggest losses.

we all want a ride with the train but we all mostly get hit by it, unless our rabbit reflexes work and we move aside, close at BE or at small profit or loss.
so how can we ride the train? i think the safest way if i make a good % of correct calls is to close my first couple of trades at the first sign of hesitation so i collect my daily price (15-20 pips for a daily target is good enough and can be done in 3 trades say).
THEN enter the next trades with the intent to move to BE ( BE+1 preferably) asap and let them run RUN.
  • #5,035
  • May 21, 2011 9:04pm May 21, 2011 9:04pm
Quoting bigtent
No SL????

That reminds me of..... time for another CHOROS video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU1pD4xPe2M
Yeah dude, and the fact that they're successful and have been trading for years with lots of followers, completely befuddles me. Apparently they share the same sentiment that having SLs limit their space, and they get stopped out before price moves in their direction again. I think they must have a 80-90% hit rate to feel comfortable doing that.
  • #5,036
  • Edited May 22, 2011 3:48am May 21, 2011 9:24pm | Edited May 22, 2011 3:48am
Quoting natnimrey
Yeah dude, and the fact that they're successful and have been trading for years with lots of followers, completely befuddles me. Apparently they share the same sentiment that having SLs limit their space, and they get stopped out before price moves in their direction again. I think they must have a 80-90% hit rate to feel comfortable doing that.
Pretty simple, isn't it.... No stop loss = unstoppable loss!

Then there's the other furphy "If the broker can see your stop they'll manipulate the price to stop you out".... Funny that. I've had trades run to within 0.1 of a pip of my stop and not taken me out, and on two different brokers! Though stop hunting does occur, if the price goes to where a stop is on at the broker, or whether it goes to where your "mental stop", it's the same result. Keeping "mental stops" is just paranoia in my opinion ... if the brokers are really "out to get you", why would you even attempt to trade?
  • #5,037
  • May 22, 2011 12:01pm May 22, 2011 12:01pm
Quoting bigtent
Pretty simple, isn't it.... No stop loss = unstoppable loss!

Then there's the other furphy "If the broker can see your stop they'll manipulate the price to stop you out".... Funny that. I've had trades run to within 0.1 of a pip of my stop and not taken me out, and on two different brokers! Though stop hunting does occur, if the price goes to where a stop is on at the broker, or whether it goes to where your "mental stop", it's the same result. Keeping "mental stops" is just paranoia in my opinion ... if the brokers are really "out to...
I think you are missing something. When price comes to within .1 pip of my stop and then turns around for a profit, that means that I'm a genius and have a perfect feel for the market. But when price takes out my stop by only .1 pip, the only rational explanation is that my broker screwed me. Because, after all, I must still be a genius.
  • #5,038
  • May 22, 2011 3:20pm May 22, 2011 3:20pm
I'm a very new trading to the game looking to learn to do well in FOREX like many other people on here.

First of, I want to say thanks to all the members who have contributed to this thread, but a huge special thanks to kostas1 for being the inspiration that I needed, showing me that it is fully possible to do well in this market.

I have a couple of question regarding this system:
1. How long will it take to learn and apply? Time is not an issue for me and I will spend as long as I need to learn it well, but I'm just curious.

2. Would the dance work well if I only had a small starting capital? I'm in university, so I don't want to risk a lot of money, but I want to start trading young so I can fully reap the benefits of successful trading at a young age when I become experienced. If I started with $250 capital, would it take an obscenely large amount of time before I expect any significant gains, even with compounding, since the dance requires only a 2% risk per position?

3. kostas1: I noticed you said you spend 8 hours of screen time each day. I don't have that luxury. Is there any way to bank your targeted amount of pips in a shorter or longer TF without having to monitor your charts all day?

Thanks!
  • #5,039
  • May 23, 2011 1:50am May 23, 2011 1:50am
Quoting JusticeFX
1. How long will it take to learn and apply? Time is not an issue for me and I will spend as long as I need to learn it well, but I'm just curious.

2. Would the dance work well if I only had a small starting capital? I'm in university, so I don't want to risk a lot of money, but I want to start trading young so I can fully reap the benefits of successful trading at a young age when I become experienced. If I started with $250 capital, would it take an obscenely large amount of time before I expect any significant gains, even with compounding, since...
1. Time will be dependent on you. From a few days if you are experienced to never if you don't stay focused....
2. Starting capital has nothing to do with the method. 2% is 2% with any starting capital. Money management is very important with every trading method. For me 2% is not per position, it's per day.
3. I would look at higher TFs (e.g. H4). I am not that good at longer TFs since I tend to be impatient. But as I said some posts ago, I use higher TFs to take quick scalping profits.

Welcome to the thread and good luck with your trading (don't forget to read the thread well, since most of the questions have been asked and answered already...)
  • #5,040
  • May 23, 2011 2:02am May 23, 2011 2:02am
Quoting asos101
Actually i think if you have a job that lets you have a sporadic look at the market, say like Kostas, its good because your dayjob keeps you from rushing to take every call you see on the chart.
i see it also, that when i have work to do on my PC and leave a chart open on the laptop by my side and glance it every now and then, i am much more relaxed and controlled in my decisions.
That's the way it may be for me too right now, but I guess I'll always be striving for the ideal. Which in my opinion is to be able to look at each trading opportunity with the same psychology, no matter whether you've been looking at the market all day long or for the first time after a month. No matter whether you've won or lost your last 10 trades.


Quoting asos101
so how can we ride the train? i think the safest way if i make a good % of correct calls is to close my first couple of trades at the first sign of hesitation so i collect my daily price (15-20 pips for a daily target is good enough and can be done in 3 trades say).
THEN enter the next trades with the intent to move to BE ( BE+1 preferably) asap and let them run RUN.
That's what I'm trying to do now as well, but I'm not sure whether it's optimal. I think it depends on the particular setup. If you feel that the price is hesitating and is going to come back and take you out at BE, then why not pocket the usual 10 pips, even if you have already achieved your daily target ? On the other hand, if it looks like price will continue going your way then why close the trade at just a few pips just because you haven't yet reached your daily target ?

I think that what we should be striving for is to behave like trading machines. We should take advantage of the "human" evaluation and pattern recognition abilities, but as far as trading psychology is concerned then we should try to behave as much as possible as "machines".
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