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CHOROS System

  • #4,281
  • Feb 24, 2011 1:31pm Feb 24, 2011 1:31pm
Quoting Survivor
I wonder if Kostas will allow discussions on advanced setups?
ABSOLUTELY!!
Feel free to start discussing these. I believe the newbies can read carefully the thread and know everything they need to know.
The thread is ready for advanced concepts. Time for "scooping-up" and "ping-pong" then?
  • #4,282
  • Feb 24, 2011 2:02pm Feb 24, 2011 2:02pm
I agree with you makonen, It was a decent setup but because the risk was very small it took out his SL. If it had been given bit more room to dip, it would have been a decent win or break even at worst. Important thing to know is don't let your heart sink because of a loss just learn from it and try to map out or SL bit better and pay attention to PA on 1HR or even D1

take care


Quoting makonen
Dear traders,
first of all I would like to say that this thread is one of the best in FF and it is a great help for us (newbees)
who try to stick with a "KISS" system. Many thanks to all! and Clay & Kostas of course.
About eu failed trade of Andrey Becker I believe that the H1/50 touch needed a little more "room" until to RN
1.37 It was also a perfect H1/62 touch and H4/10 confluence at the same vicinity. I also stopped out for a
2 pips at this trade and any other opinion of older member is welcomed!
  • #4,283
  • Feb 24, 2011 2:51pm Feb 24, 2011 2:51pm
After this trade, that i´ve posted here today, i had some other and they´re all good. In my demo-account 13,5 % today with 3% risk/trade.. but could have much more it´s awesome. Thanks guys for this thread!
  • #4,284
  • Feb 24, 2011 4:33pm Feb 24, 2011 4:33pm
Quoting cyberevil
I agree with you makonen, It was a decent setup but because the risk was very small it took out his SL. If it had been given bit more room to dip, it would have been a decent win or break even at worst. Important thing to know is don't let your heart sink because of a loss just learn from it and try to map out or SL bit better and pay attention to PA on 1HR or even D1

take care

Thanks survivor & cyberevil !
  • #4,285
  • Feb 24, 2011 7:40pm Feb 24, 2011 7:40pm
Quoting kostas1
ABSOLUTELY!!
Feel free to start discussing these. I believe the newbies can read carefully the thread and know everything they need to know.
The thread is ready for advanced concepts. Time for "scooping-up" and "ping-pong" then?
Quoting cyberevil
I agree with you makonen, It was a decent setup but because the risk was very small it took out his SL. If it had been given bit more room to dip, it would have been a decent win or break even at worst. Important thing to know is don't let your heart sink because of a loss just learn from it and try to map out or SL bit better and pay attention to PA on 1HR or even D1

take care

Warning: NON dance trade.

Thanku kostas. Am sure everyone will benefit enormously frm your exp. Here is one of my favourite setups that i took yesterday... In a good trend, she moves hard against the trend. Crosses both 35/50 in a single candle and closes without wick on a signifiacant support/ resistance. Yesterday she closed on confluence of 62 ema, h4 10 and RN. Buy with all you have got. I am yet to see any real draw down on these trades.

Here is yesterdays trade and one i took earlier. Earlier one doesnt show 62 EMA but it was right there at top.

Warning: Its high probability trade but be careful when she comes to 35/50 slowly. I like her to rush real fast. mostly in 2 candles. Also Duffy Pmed me saying he managed to find a failed trade in his back testing. SO maybe its not unfailable after all

Enjoy and let me know how your feed back.
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Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #4,286
  • Feb 24, 2011 8:01pm Feb 24, 2011 8:01pm
Quoting kostas1
ABSOLUTELY!!
Feel free to start discussing these. I believe the newbies can read carefully the thread and know everything they need to know.
The thread is ready for advanced concepts. Time for "scooping-up" and "ping-pong" then?

Warning: Advanced setup


I took two of them.


I used to call them "contra trend bars" without knowing clay called similar setups "scooped up". Clay looked for a close below 10EMA for short. I find a pin bar rejection are high probability trades. Anyway, what's in the name? A pip will be as sweet with any other name


Be warned it's against the trend. Dont touch it Unless 35/50 are really flat! ANY sign of strength in 35/50 i will stay out of such illicit activities as trading against the trend. Also timing matters. Slow premarket open hours are good for these setups. I wont trade them in very active market when touch trades are better.
Attached Images
Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #4,287
  • Feb 24, 2011 8:09pm Feb 24, 2011 8:09pm
Now that we are officially in scooped up and ping pong stuff here is my two cents.

For those who are only starting up with the system please stay away from such trades. There is a good reason why clay wants us to trade only basic setups in beginning.

Others please do extensive back testing to validate and even more important get a feel of these trades. Often words are not enough to describe things. Screen time will really help you understand what it means. Though i am too lazy to do back testing, i admire it greatly

Experienced traders, please share your setups. Birdland, i will be looking for your legendary "Fake out" Fades. ( Though cross and reverse caught it much before fake out )
Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #4,288
  • Feb 24, 2011 8:28pm Feb 24, 2011 8:28pm
Quoting duffypratt
Thanks so much for this.

The real gold in your post, I think, is the idea that you don't take the trade until you have at least two- three candles closing above the MA. On top of that, I suppose it helps if you are also generally seeing higher highs and lows in an uptrend (and the opposite for a short).
Yes good understanding. I forgot to highlight that. That's the key- To see higher highs for buy. That means your MA will "rising" for long. Manual talks about this without much elaboration. Basic idea is to look for rising MA constraining price for long. Be careful with flat MA and falling MA is strict no trade for long. Reverse for short.
Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #4,289
  • Feb 24, 2011 8:49pm Feb 24, 2011 8:49pm
Quoting Survivor
Warning: Advanced setup


I took two of them.


I used to call them "contra trend bars" without knowing clay called similar setups "scooped up". Clay looked for a close below 10EMA for short. I find a pin bar rejection are high probability trades. Anyway, what's in the name? A pip will be as sweet with any other name


Be warned it's against the trend. Dont touch it Unless 35/50 are really flat! ANY sign of strength in 35/50 i will stay out of such illicit activities as trading against the trend. Also timing matters. Slow premarket...
It looks to me like this is the kind of set-up where you can get lots of benefit by looking at higher time frames. By definition, you are trading against the trend of the chart where you are taking the entry. But, if a set-up like this called for a short on the 15, which was flat at the time, and the H1 and H4 were both in downtrends, that would make the trade much more attractive.
  • #4,290
  • Feb 24, 2011 9:35pm Feb 24, 2011 9:35pm
1) 10 Touch, 50 Bounce. This is one of those 35/50 cross and retest trades. For two bars, price made a clear break of the 50, with the 10 at a fairly steep angle on the 10. It comes back for a retrace to a confluence of the 10, 50 and the Daily Pivot. Good for 25, 50, 70 or 80 pips depending on where you put your take profit.

2) 10 Touch. Loser, but no trade. First touch and steep MA, but there is the Weekly Pivot, a Round Number, and an S/R area just below acting as support. On top of that it takes 5 bars from the low to hit the 10. So, I see it as no trade. If you took this at the projected touch, it would hit a stop loss of up to 14 pips, so it’s probably a loser. With a bigger stop, you might be able to squeeze 15 pips or get a break even on it.

3) 50 Touch. First touch. MAs are steep and parallel, but pretty widely separated. It also has confluence with H1 35. As a touch trade, this one works quite well. Fine tuning the entry on the 5 only seems to confuse things here. The best entry I see there gives up 15 pips, and calls for a pretty wide stop. Still, I think this is a good trade. Getting out of the trade, however, is tricky. It easily gets 15 pips. But it could also then lead to a break even if you held on to all or some of the trade. If you could avoid break even, this trade could go for 40-50 pips.

4) 10 Touch (and non-Dance Trade). I drew two arrows here. The top one highlights the 10 Touch, which I think is a no trade. It suffers the same problems as trade 1, but at this point the Round Number and S/R line have already acted as support. To top it off, price tested the S/R line with a pin bar (almost a hammer).

The bottom arrow shows the trade I took today. I decided as price was pulling back from the S/R line that I would pass on any 10 Touch Trade. And then also decided I would enter long if the bar closed as a pin with some bullish momentum. I got in at the weekly pivot. Then I waited for a half hour before price finally took off and hit the 10. The 10 trade turned out to be even worse than it looked in advance. I took off half the trade at +18.

The next big Dance decision came in deciding whether to reverse position at trade 5:

5) 35/50 Bounce. The MAs are steep, but have already started to diverge. There is also confluence with the 200. On its own terms, I might have tried this trade as a scalp. And a scalp would have been good for up to 14 pips, or would have given a Break Even. Since I was already in a risk free trade, the question was whether to chance the reverse or hold onto the trade. I decided that the diverging MAs were bad enough not to take the trade on a reversal, and that I would wait through any short bounce and try for my take profit at the Round Number above.

It twice bounced back 14 pips before finally breaking through the 50. If I had not taken off half my position, I would definitely have exited somewhere in here, probably at the worst possible point. It broke through to the Round Number, and I met my daily target with the one trade.

5a) On H1 Chart. Right after the Round Number, it hit a triple top on the H1, again right near the 35. It is also testing the M15 100 on that bar. If I were still trading, I would have been sorely tempted to take this trade. And it turned out to be a great trade, worth 100 or more pips.

6) 10 Touch “almost”. This is the only decent 10 Touch trade of the day, and it doesn’t quite make the touch. The Daily S2 is in the way, but is far enough away to get at least a break even. Good for up to 27 pips, if you could find an entry. (This might be the type of situation where it’s best to enter on the close of bar. But I’m just no good at all at figuring out these near touches.)

7) 10 Touch. This is the first true touch after a long drop. In this case, I’m beginning to think that one should count an obvious near touch as a first touch, even when the touch doesn’t actually happen. Or at least take it into consideration. Here, the touch comes 8 bars after the low. Price has made progressively higher lows. I think this is a bad trade and should be passed.
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  • #4,291
  • Feb 25, 2011 1:52am Feb 25, 2011 1:52am
Not really to the rules, but anyway.......

Took this on the Aussie in the Asian session.

Took a touch (actually missed and gave away a few pips), even though it was far from the first, but the PA was bouncing along the MA all day, nice straight trend. Had hit some resistance and was sort of being jammed.

I viewed it as a being loosely constrained if you like, and I've seen this many times before. More often than not it will break the resistance.

Took the first part off when it faltered at the next "blue line" for about three minutes. I don't know when I added those lines, but they were working to the pip again today, and this is why I don't delete them.

Then the second part was SBE+1 so I just let my Dance_trail EA take over from there.

23 pips all up.

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  • #4,292
  • Feb 25, 2011 2:00am Feb 25, 2011 2:00am
Quoting Survivor
Warning: Advanced setup


I took two of them.


I used to call them "contra trend bars" without knowing clay called similar setups "scooped up". Clay looked for a close below 10EMA for short. I find a pin bar rejection are high probability trades. Anyway, what's in the name? A pip will be as sweet with any other name


Be warned it's against the trend. Dont touch it Unless 35/50 are really flat! ANY sign of strength in 35/50 i will stay out of such illicit activities as trading against the trend. Also timing matters. Slow premarket open...
I actually got in short where the dotted MAs are, (H1 35, etc, I believe) as price came up from below, but when the two hanging man like candles formed, I got the jitters and bailed for a couple of pips.... Then I had to watch as it went down like a ton of bricks hit it for thirty minutes.

Bad thing is, I think that I let that disappointment get to me, and had a bad session as a result.
  • #4,293
  • Edited 3:02am Feb 25, 2011 2:11am | Edited 3:02am
shorted GU off touch of M15 10 EMA and H1 10 EMA...
update later..

EDIT:out with half at 1.6128 and another half at BE+1
got stopped out when price retraced off the 1.6120 levels.
so out with +15.4 pips for the day..
  • #4,294
  • Feb 25, 2011 2:59am Feb 25, 2011 2:59am
Quoting willkohsg
shorted GU off touch of M15 10 EMA and H1 10 EMA...
update later..

Am right there with you buddy. Doing some crazy stuff. Maybe too much wine with dinner yesterday but was short 4 lots. Covered two at +20. So net 40 for the day. Rest two locked at BE and waiting to see if our spies got GDP right? Can be a big mover.
Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #4,295
  • Feb 25, 2011 3:04am Feb 25, 2011 3:04am
Quoting Survivor
Am right there with you buddy. Doing some crazy stuff. Maybe too much wine with dinner yesterday but was short 4 lots. Covered two at +20. So net 40 for the day. Rest two locked at BE and waiting to see if our spies got GDP right? Can be a big mover.
better close most and keep just a small runner.. with BE +few pips.. cos if news spikes even ur BE stop will be taken out at -10 or -20 pips given that broker widen spreads during news.. just to be on the cautious side..
  • #4,296
  • Edited 6:10am Feb 25, 2011 5:54am | Edited 6:10am
i know trendlines have nothing to do with dance
but,
today we saw a confirmation on GU, i wanted to show for new ideas.
the trendline was very clear to see.
everything was there, RN and 35/50.
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trading is like dancing, don't think and just listen to the music!
  • #4,297
  • Feb 25, 2011 6:22am Feb 25, 2011 6:22am
Quoting birdland
i know trendlines have nothing to do with dance
but,
today we saw a confirmation on GU, i wanted to show for new ideas.
the trendline was very clear to see.
everything was there, RN and 35/50.
We talked about it in the past. If the confluence of our normal signs MAs, RN, Pivots contains trendlines it makes it even stronger. But trendlines are so subjective that can confuse the decision making process. I had very nice trades where there was such a confluence, the price broke the trendline (fake move) and then continued in the right CHOROS direction. So careful with the trendlines.
  • #4,298
  • Feb 25, 2011 11:58am Feb 25, 2011 11:58am
Quoting duffypratt

2) 10 Touch. Loser, but no trade. First touch and steep MA, but there is the Weekly Pivot, a Round Number, and an S/R area just below acting as support. On top of that it takes 5 bars from the low to hit the 10. So, I see it as no trade. If you took this at the projected touch, it would hit a stop loss of up to 14 pips, so it’s probably a loser. With a bigger stop, you might be able to squeeze 15 pips or get a break even on it.
On my charts the candle before it is a toucher, just, and if you caught it, it'd give you 20 pips.

For the one you have marked, it's difficult to tell on the 15 because the candles are a bit erratic.

In backtesting static charts, you don't see the candles form, and the actual movement can be a lot different to what you'd assume from the candles, so I thought I'd have a look on the lower TF to see where it actually went during all this...

Looking on the 5 min chart with the MTF for the 15, it only blows through 10 pips, going through the H4 35 and bounces off the M5 35. From the M15 10 you had maybe 15 pips, but you should be SBE+1 at the worst.

There was a second drawback of 4 and a third of about 6 pips on the way though, so I'm not sure if I'd have bailed when that was on the way.

Here it is in M1 .... it'd be a winner for those that had the nerve to ride it out.

It also went up to that high pretty quick .... 14 pips in a minute, so you could have possibly been "favourably slipped" trying to catch it, or it may have blown through and you went for the H4 35 instead, which wasn't a bad entry at all, 6 pips or so higher.

Lots of "ifs" there, and as far as "ifs" go, if Aunty Willma had balls, she'd be Uncle Bill.

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  • #4,299
  • Feb 25, 2011 3:40pm Feb 25, 2011 3:40pm
Quoting bigtent
On my charts the candle before it is a toucher, just, and if you caught it, it'd give you 20 pips.

For the one you have marked, it's difficult to tell on the 15 because the candles are a bit erratic.

In backtesting static charts, you don't see the candles form, and the actual movement can be a lot different to what you'd assume from the candles, so I thought I'd have a look on the lower TF to see where it actually went during all this...

Looking on the 5 min chart with the MTF for the 15, it only blows through 10 pips, going through the...
Some very good points here. Thanks. I do need to pay more attention to near misses on the final chart that would have been entries in real time (and this one is a perfect example). I'm still not sure I would have taken the trade, but it was a better entry on the bar before than on the one that I marked.
  • #4,300
  • Feb 25, 2011 11:31pm Feb 25, 2011 11:31pm
Quoting duffypratt
Some very good points here. Thanks. I do need to pay more attention to near misses on the final chart that would have been entries in real time (and this one is a perfect example). I'm still not sure I would have taken the trade, but it was a better entry on the bar before than on the one that I marked.
I'd like a dollar for every time I've been fooled analyzing historical charts. In real time, the picture is very different.

Another way which is more accurate is to go back and sim-trade it and snapshot the chart.

Even if you do this with 20/20 hindsight, mark the trades first, then go onto sim and see if you can recognize it as it forms, may be very useful as an exercise.

Could possibly help me with a problem I have which leaves me having to say, "Why didn't I take THAT!", and conversely, "Why on earth did I take THIS!" LOL
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