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CHOROS System

  • #4,201
  • Feb 22, 2011 8:46am Feb 22, 2011 8:46am
Quoting micmic
In Bloomberg Currency News they still haven't caught up with the Dollar fall: "Dollar, Yen advance on Middle East Violence". They are probably thinking how they can justify the reversal. I often go to Bloomberg after such big moves, just for the laughs. They will always explain somehow the FIRST move. After that, they are often lost for words. It's very common that they will leave even bigger moves totally uncommented.

Justifying currency behavior with fundamentals is a dirty job, but someone's got to do it.
On bloomberg.com they are a little late with the news, but in the terminal of Bloomberg, which is pretty expensive, but has so many features in it, the news comes right in the minute they are happening, so it is maybe a policy....
Better to lose opportunity, rather than capital !
  • #4,202
  • Feb 22, 2011 8:46am Feb 22, 2011 8:46am
Quoting bigtent
I was thinking about this earlier. My thoughts were where price and the 10 EMA converge with the 35, or maybe it's just where you are pointing out, if the 10 has crossed the 35.

It may be something to work out, just when is the 50 likely to fail and price reverse, because, as you say, it often means a big run after the reversal.

Every Dancer needs to learn a few new steps now and then!
the problem with this approach is only you have to decide which setup to trade and focus:
either for a dance or for a failure dance.

to concentrate on both i find myself very confusing.
trading is like dancing, don't think and just listen to the music!
  • #4,203
  • Feb 22, 2011 8:47am Feb 22, 2011 8:47am
Quoting bigtent
M15 10, H1 35, 200 SMA, S1, RN......Well it would have been nice!


Hmm didn't come back far enough again!
Yep, i had a buy limit on 1.3652
Better to lose opportunity, rather than capital !
  • #4,204
  • Feb 22, 2011 8:54am Feb 22, 2011 8:54am
Quoting birdland
the problem with this approach is only you have to decide which setup to trade and focus:
either for a dance or for a failure dance.

to concentrate on both i find myself very confusing.
Wait and lets see how confused you will be in these markets after few days- Constrainments have almost disappeared and even perfect touches are rare. Today is not the first day of no "by the rule trade" if i track it well. Maybe Mayans were right- end of world is approaching fast

But on a serious note, we really need to keep learning and evolving. Mastering one setup is perfect if markets don't change.But I get soooooooo frustrated waiting for perfect setups during lazy days.

Of course, i am still trying to figure out how Kostas is doing it day in and day out. Am reading each of his post carefully again and again. But this is something i would rather talk about later.
Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #4,205
  • Feb 22, 2011 8:56am Feb 22, 2011 8:56am
Survivor i could find any dance trades too today, but there is tomorrow right The zone that you showed on a 15M looked pretty good for a long, i sow it when it happened, but said to myself to trade only dance, so no position there! On GU there was similar setup...

So what, there will be another day
Better to lose opportunity, rather than capital !
  • #4,206
  • Feb 22, 2011 9:01am Feb 22, 2011 9:01am
Quoting birdland
the problem with this approach is only you have to decide which setup to trade and focus:
either for a dance or for a failure dance.

to concentrate on both i find myself very confusing.
I appreciate that, but there are three main trades in the Dance and Kostas has added some more with Choros.

Sitting on only one can in itself lead to frustration, as the others may be present, but "your particular baby" isn't, so you start looking on multiple pairs, etc, which can be counterproductive.

For example, tonight I picked up a little M1 PA on that EU rise, completely non-dance, and if I hadn't, I'd be behind for the day.

Anyway, I don't mind a puzzle to work out, and what I was thinking of was some sort of signal of what was likely to happen, bounce or reverse. As I said, maybe the 10/35 interaction gives a clue...

I'll look for it in the sim/backtest and see if I can pinpoint anything.
  • #4,207
  • Feb 22, 2011 9:06am Feb 22, 2011 9:06am
Quoting metrilbg
Yep, i had a buy limit on 1.3652
LOL, I thought it'd left the station without me and took a short break. Came back and I missed it!

Now there's been 3 in a row, but that violates the first touch only rule!
  • #4,208
  • Feb 22, 2011 9:10am Feb 22, 2011 9:10am
Quoting metrilbg
On bloomberg.com they are a little late with the news, but in the terminal of Bloomberg, which is pretty expensive, but has so many features in it, the news comes right in the minute they are happening, so it is maybe a policy....
Agreed. Terminal is almost unaffordable for retail traders. I dont see the website often but i think same news is flashed there with a delay.

But the reality is - "news" is nothing but pretty brainless girls asking eqaully clueless traders what's happening in market. Of course, there are good traders but in my opinion they rarely bother to talk to newspersons. Why is it so? On a fun note lets imagine a bloomberg girl talking to Kostas?

Reporter: Where you think EU will go?
Kostas: I dont know but i will trade it anyway.

Later in the day:
Reporter: Why is eu going up?
Kostas: i have no clue but 1.3650 is a good choros buy because there is confluence of RN and....

Reporter: So you dont see it going down on Eurozone concerns?
Kostas: I dont know but I just bought at 10 EMa and RN confluence and just hit my daily target. Me off now. BiBi see you later.

DO you think they gonna publish it?

hahahhahahah....
Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #4,209
  • Feb 22, 2011 9:21am Feb 22, 2011 9:21am
Quoting Survivor
Agreed. Terminal is almost unaffordable for retail traders. I dont see the website often but i think same news is flashed there with a delay.

But the reality is -...
THE BEST
  • #4,210
  • Feb 22, 2011 9:36am Feb 22, 2011 9:36am
Quoting Survivor
Reporter: So you dont see it going down on Eurozone concerns?
Kostas: I dont know but I just bought at 10 EMa and RN confluence and just hit my daily target. Me off now. BiBi see you later.
Reporter: How did you know where price is heading? What is this CHOROS stuff?
Kostas: Well it's related to Dancing. What are you doing after work?
Reporter: I will be free if you teach me this CHOROS dancing.
Kostas: OK. Tonight's first lesson is called Bouncing
  • #4,211
  • Feb 22, 2011 11:26am Feb 22, 2011 11:26am
Quoting endroute
The problem is you are attached to the money you are trading and you want more of it, you have to get to the place where you literally you don't care about wins or losses. This is not say go out and become reckless or take dumb trades. With that said I still take a dumb trade at least once a week, but it does not bother me and I don't beat myself up over it. Until you get to this point you are going to struggle, setting arbitrary rules like quiting after x losses may help in the short term but the time you quit and then see a 100 pip run up on an...

Of course, we can't avoid being reckless sometimes. The problem is when it is the rule and not the exception. You seem to already be at a very good point.

Quoting bigtent
Fear and greed are emotions. Emotions are what drive human beings, not rational or logical thought.

So, unless you are planning to somehow become a Vulcan..... hang on, "Trader Spock" does has a nice ring to it!
Well, the point is to minimize emotion as much as possible. If someone was paying you a lot of money in order to enter data in a PC, you would of course enjoy the money but you wouldn't be excited about typing per se. There is this book "Emotion Free Trading" which I hear has nice reviews. Visualization techniques etc.
  • #4,212
  • Feb 22, 2011 11:41am Feb 22, 2011 11:41am
Second attempt down under today, this time with NZDUSD. It didn't go as well as the first one. At the time it looked like a nice 5 EMA touch (1H chart) and there was no important support below. However it coincided with the USD fall. Fortunately the stop loss held and I exited at +1 pip (after missing the opportunity to close for a few more).
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  • #4,213
  • Edited 1:30pm Feb 22, 2011 12:26pm | Edited 1:30pm
Quoting micmic
Of course, we can't avoid being reckless sometimes. The problem is when it is the rule and not the exception. You seem to already be at a very good point.



Well, the point is to minimize emotion as much as possible. If someone was paying you a lot of money in order to enter data in a PC, you would of course enjoy the money but you wouldn't be excited about typing per se. There is this book "Emotion Free Trading" which I hear has nice reviews. Visualization techniques etc.
I don't believe that you can get away from emotion, as it is fundamental to your being, you can only control it more than it controls you, but even then, those emotions are still there.

If you discipline yourself, that comes from the emotional need to succeed, as well as the emotion of fear of letting other emotions adversely affect your decisions.

It's not about being emotionless, because that is impossible for healthy human beings.

Rather, it is about understanding which emotions are going to help you and which emotions will hinder you, and using the "good" emotions to suppress and control the "bad" emotions (which are still there), and that is achievable.
  • #4,214
  • Feb 22, 2011 1:39pm Feb 22, 2011 1:39pm
Quoting bigtent
I don't believe that you can get away from emotion, as it is fundamental to your being, you can only control it more than it controls you, but even then, those emotions are still there.

If you discipline yourself, that comes from the emotional need to succeed, as well as the emotion of fear of being letting other emotions adversely affect your decisions.

It's not about being emotionless, because that is impossible for healthy human beings.

Rather, it is about understanding which emotions are going to help you and which emotions will hinder...

You can't be emotionless, that's for sure. But I think that's the ideal as far as trading is concerned. To utilize your pattern-recognizing abilities without permitting other factors to interfere. We can never switch off our emotions while trading, but we can try to minimize them as much as possible.

What I'm talking about is not something that can't be done. Of course some emotion, some feeling, some desire is the driving force behind all this. But the top professionals in every field do not allow their feelings to take control when they perform their tasks, much more when those tasks are primarily mental. I can't imagine a surgeon operating successfully under strong emotional influence, at least not when the operation is a difficult one. I can't imagine a chess master doing well while being outraged. And so on. I don't think "discipline" and "will power" are especially effective when it comes to this. Probably one's self-image is more important. Instead of trying to discipline yourself, you should focus on trying to change the way you view yourself. Then the correct actions come natural.
  • #4,215
  • Edited 9:18pm Feb 22, 2011 2:31pm | Edited 9:18pm
Quoting micmic
You can't be emotionless, that's for sure. But I think that's the ideal as far as trading is concerned. To utilize your pattern-recognizing abilities without permitting other factors to interfere. We can never switch off our emotions while trading, but we can try to minimize them as much as possible.

What I'm talking about is not something that can't be done. Of course some emotion, some feeling, some desire is the driving force behind all this. But the top professionals in every field do not allow their feelings to take control when they perform...
Discipline is precisely what you are describing. Discipline is control, to be disciplined is to follow what you have learned or planned, and not allow things to distract you from that, and that includes emotions.

Will power is just another term to describe the strength of consciousness that is required to achieve discipline.

The ultimate in discipline is to appear to act autonomously, without the need to ponder on the decision.

One other thing, things such as trader's discretion, "gut feelings", discretion, and "more art than science", all things that are all about feeling more than rational thought, which means they are actually emotional, but the difference is that they are the applications of the "good" emotions.

PS: I still think "Trader Spock" would be great at this game!
  • #4,216
  • Feb 22, 2011 6:05pm Feb 22, 2011 6:05pm
Quoting kostas1
Reporter: How did you know where price is heading? What is this CHOROS stuff?
Kostas: Well it's related to Dancing. What are you doing after work?
Reporter: I will be free if you teach me this CHOROS dancing.
Kostas: OK. Tonight's first lesson is called Bouncing
After a few Touch lessons, you will introduce her to constrainments??? It alls sounds a bit kinky to me.
  • #4,217
  • Feb 22, 2011 6:47pm Feb 22, 2011 6:47pm
Why am I even bothering with this day?

1) Constrainment? This is about where I came in. At the time I wondered whether this was a constrainment, and decided against taking the trade. Even if it was a constrainment, it had several things going against it. The MAs are sloping down some, but not very much. And there seemed to be a kind of ping pong going on between the 50 on top, and the 35 together with the Weekly Pivot on the bottom. The top constrainment looks better formed to me, but the bottom area has a better confluence. So I decided this was a coin flip. And it turns out it was a coin flip I would have won. Do others see this differently? Was there some reason to take this trade that I’m not seeing?

2) 35/50 Bounce. This is the one good M15 trade of the day. The MAs are now pretty steep and basically parallel. Even though the bottom was a long way away, there is a nice two bar impulse to bring price up to this level. So while it doesn’t precisely follow the two bar rule, I think this kind of price action is good enough. It’s a clear first touch since the last cross of the MAs. And there’s really good confluence with a Round Number, an S/R line, and with actual support that has held up well twice in the last several hours. This is close to an ideal bounce trade, and by far the best M15 trade in the last few days. Good for 20 pips.

One other observation. I’ve mentioned in a few recent posts about how price tends to shift direction sometimes just after the London close. Today, London close happens at the bottom for the day, and right at the round number. I was out getting my car fixed. But, even though its not Dance, I think this sort of thing might be tradable. Especially, when you have a Round Number just below the reversal, and where the two reversal bars would form a pretty nice hammer, if combined.
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  • #4,218
  • Edited 9:23pm Feb 22, 2011 8:01pm | Edited 9:23pm
Quoting duffypratt
Why am I even bothering with this day?

1) Constrainment?...
There was also the H1 10 and H4 35 in that gaggle.

I actually took a trade after that on the way up to the high when it came back to touch the M15 50. I went in higher, because it had been up and pulled back before so many times, I wanted it to clear the area. Then I held it too long and only got a pip when I'd had 15 on the table (stupid.. greed! Did that 3 times yesterday!!!! That's 45 pips thrown away!!!).

The high was right on the H1 35, (which is where I should have exited my long), and anyone who took that bounce would have been very happy indeed. 90 pips on the table and if you trailed Dance style it would have been 60.

I also took a bounce of when it came back to the S3, just before it went to the low, and bagged 21 pips.

Could I suggest that you add the MTF averages for H1, H4 and D1 to your chart? Yesterday's action was in amongst all of them and there was a lot of interaction with them! See my chart attached, but note that the pivots have moved since yesterday, and I just took this shot, so they are not where yours are. I think the only MAs NOT in that mess are the D1 35 and 50!

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  • #4,219
  • Feb 22, 2011 9:20pm Feb 22, 2011 9:20pm
Quoting duffypratt
After a few Touch lessons, you will introduce her to constrainments??? It alls sounds a bit kinky to me.
He's just sick of the EU and GU and wants to check out her pair.
  • #4,220
  • Feb 22, 2011 9:25pm Feb 22, 2011 9:25pm
Quoting bigtent
There was also the H1 10 and H4 35 in that gaggle.

I actually took a trade after that on the way up to the high when it came back to touch the M15 50. I went in higher, because it had been up and pulled back before so many times, I wanted it to clear the area. Then I held it too long and only got a pip when I'd had 15 on the table (stupid.. greed! Did that 3 times yesterday!!!! That's 45 pips thrown away!!!).

The high was right on the H1 35, (which is where I should have exited my long), and anyone who took that bounce would have been very...
I already feel like my charts are too cluttered by lines. I like playing with trendlines and Fibs sometimes, but I rarely leave them on the screen. And I really hate the stepwise look of the MTF MAs, and the whole thing just looks like a bloody mess to me. I suppose I could get used to it (and if I was just working on my laptop, I might go that way). I have a 27 inch monitor that's basically a devoted MT4 screen. My full setup looks like the attached. I keep the M1 under the M5 and the Daily under the H4.
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