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  • #383,741
  • Feb 10, 2011 7:01am Feb 10, 2011 7:01am
Quoting cloggie
No professional trader uses it, there are plenty of retail traders that swear by it. I am the type of trader that ignores each and every retail myth. IF you do want to use liquidity projections as volume you need to know how it is calculated. Volume Indy's on retail platform use tick data to estimate liquidity, nothing else. I trade equities and true volume is definitely a tool I use for trading those markets, it doesn't exist in FX.
Ok, understood.
  • #383,742
  • Feb 10, 2011 7:01am Feb 10, 2011 7:01am
  •  apt
  • | Joined Oct 2010 | Status: All your cookies are belong to me. | 1,114 Posts
Quoting Larseg
So...

Scenario TP1 : 50% system winners 1:2
20/40 SL/TP

Scenario TP2: 35% system winners 1:3
20/60

pullback then bounce % of winning
0.5*0.35=17.5% chance of taking off and putting on reaching TP2

based on 100 trades
TP1= 2000 pips

Adding on (assuming you get a 10 pip better entry with spread:525 - 2475= -1950

TP2= 800 pips

Leaves us with 850 pips - spread = 500 ish... = 5 pip per trade...

Off course these numbers arent yours but if you have more details I would be happy:=) always eager to learn more
I'm still learning, but you seem to have a much better grasp on the mathematical approach of it than I do

btw, exited long at BE, short now, looking for my initial short target of 1.3605. Let's see if it hits.
  • #383,743
  • Feb 10, 2011 7:02am Feb 10, 2011 7:02am
Quoting pj11500
Hi, care to explain what the cute point and figure indi is?

thanks

PJ
Hi, Care to check the fellow's site that's in his footer, which he/she presumably went to great effort to setup and help others? Or, care to google? How about caring to check puma1's previous posts?

Seriously, this place is worse than kindergarten too much of the time. Especially if for some inane reason FF'ers come back after hours of absence to trudge through pages of uselessness, among which are questions like this. Call me rude or whatever your want, but the truth isn't easy to bear.

My advice to puma1, no, don't explain what I recall you've explained previously. Too many are undeserving.
  • #383,744
  • Feb 10, 2011 7:03am Feb 10, 2011 7:03am
Quoting cloggie
Every month or so I pick a subject to dissect and show the retailers that what they believe in is a myth, last few months it was the gap, this month it is volume.

.

*opens can of worms*
Look Sharp/Trade Tight
  • #383,745
  • Feb 10, 2011 7:04am Feb 10, 2011 7:04am
  •  apt
  • | Joined Oct 2010 | Status: All your cookies are belong to me. | 1,114 Posts
Quoting Beljevina
Hi, Care to check the fellow's site that's in his footer, which he/she presumably went to great effort to setup and help others? Or, care to google? How about caring to check puma1's previous posts?

Seriously, this place is worse than kindergarten too much of the time. Especially if for some inane reason FF'ers come back after hours of absence to trudge through pages of uselessness, among which are questions like this. Call me rude or whatever your want, but the truth isn't easy to bear.

My advice to puma1, no, don't explain what I recall...
In all the negative energy you put into this post, you could have done something positive and explained it for him.

Good job.
  • #383,746
  • Feb 10, 2011 7:05am Feb 10, 2011 7:05am
Quoting PayTheLimit
OK, I just did not understand where you got the number from. In my opinion 115 is kinda low. In any event good luck, PTL
I know i dont enter on this note, i still need a break of high (on 5min chart) to go with it or a clear double bottom..

Its just something that i follow.
  • #383,747
  • Feb 10, 2011 7:05am Feb 10, 2011 7:05am
Quoting apt
In all the negative energy you put into this post, you could have done something positive and explained it for him.

Good job.
  • #383,748
  • Feb 10, 2011 7:06am Feb 10, 2011 7:06am
Quoting rashygomez
Ok, understood.

There are plenty of retailers that believe in it though, there are quite a few threads here about VSA. None of them know the calculations behind it though, so I have no clue how they can trade something that they don't know what it really represents.


One way of estimating liquidity, and I am not sure if VSA even uses that as I strongly suspect they use ranges within bars to estimate liquidity, which is a really poor form, is German-Klass, as Oldquant helpfully posted, to get a closer estimate you need to add a DU filter, however it is still not volume and will never be.

It is hard to argue with these VSA-fans as none of them have a clue how it is calclulated, the same is true for the "volume" indicator on your retail platform, do you know what exact method they use to calculate that? No? Then how can you trade it if you don't know what it is.
  • #383,749
  • Feb 10, 2011 7:06am Feb 10, 2011 7:06am
Quoting cloggie

On a personal note, I never have ultimate TP's, price will tell me when she has had enough so I get out. If I leave a trade on overnight, then I use stops after I have booked some before letting the rest run. At that point you are using the market's money and not your own anymore, free trade.

On the same token, you never ever add to a loser, that is just averaging down and will always lead to your eventual downfall. Some of the biggest houses have tried it and failed miserably eventually.
Yeah, I dont know... I am open to start with different TPs but I havent understood or seen any results that are better because of it so I will leave it until I Believe it

And as you said being Dynamic is the key to success, and extremely hard...

pips to all
  • #383,750
  • Feb 10, 2011 7:06am Feb 10, 2011 7:06am
Quoting cloggie
Every month or so I pick a subject to dissect and show the retailers that what they believe in is a myth, last few months it was the gap, this month it is volume.

I love the myth though and how so many retailers protect it and believe in it erroneously. Volume is no volume, VSA is just an estimate of liquidity based on pricechange, it is just a presentation of price, if you really break it down, it just shows you PA, it shows the change in ticks, not what those ticks represent or what size orders are behind those ticks.

Various "volume" indicators...
did you watch the video cloggie?

the point here is that we are measuring volatility or activity level changes and not actual traded volume, to identify when there are significant changes in order flow at various levels...

Good luck with your mission this month, you may find that you're up against some heavy artillery on this topic tho'...

Ps. I'll be the first to admit that vsa isn't a holy grail, but what is?..
  • #383,751
  • Feb 10, 2011 7:07am Feb 10, 2011 7:07am
Quoting PayTheLimit
*opens can of worms*

Oh, yeah. I never shy away from a good argument. VSA is rubbish, as it does not show volume, and is just a very poor representation of estimated liquidity.

Here you go, can is open.
  • #383,752
  • Feb 10, 2011 7:08am Feb 10, 2011 7:08am
Quoting cloggie
3 - 122.7
5 - 144.0
10- 141.0
20- 150.9
Do you calculate yourself those ranges?

When i plot a atr it shows only changes in % i think..
  • #383,753
  • Feb 10, 2011 7:08am Feb 10, 2011 7:08am
1.3610 .
Hero calls followed by margin calls...
  • #383,754
  • Feb 10, 2011 7:09am Feb 10, 2011 7:09am
ok, if eu bounces up yet again i'm gonna kill someone.
  • #383,755
  • Feb 10, 2011 7:10am Feb 10, 2011 7:10am
Quoting cloggie
VSA is rubbish,.

what is that?
  • #383,756
  • Feb 10, 2011 7:10am Feb 10, 2011 7:10am
here it is 3610 broken..
  • #383,757
  • Feb 10, 2011 7:11am Feb 10, 2011 7:11am
Quoting FibbinArchie
did you watch the video cloggie?

the point here is that we are measuring volatility or activity level changes and not actual traded volume, to identify when there are significant changes in order flow at various levels...
.

Price will tell you that just by looking at a chart. VSA traders "think" they know the reason of the price change and "think" they can deduce direction from it, you can't.

IF you are a VSA user, care to post the calculations behind it, including all the filters so we can mathematically show you that it is rubbish and useless?

Don't take this personal, I just want you to think about what you use to trade, just accepting it from another retailer as gospel is the last thing you want to do. How is your VSA indy calculated? Then you will see that it does not work.
  • #383,758
  • Feb 10, 2011 7:11am Feb 10, 2011 7:11am
Quoting rashygomez
ok, if eu bounces up yet again i'm gonna kill someone.
that's more like it! down baby down! you beauty!
  • #383,759
  • Feb 10, 2011 7:11am Feb 10, 2011 7:11am
Quoting rashygomez
ok, if eu bounces up yet again i'm gonna kill someone.
Hero calls followed by margin calls...
  • #383,760
  • Feb 10, 2011 7:11am Feb 10, 2011 7:11am
  •  apt
  • | Joined Oct 2010 | Status: All your cookies are belong to me. | 1,114 Posts
Quoting apt
I'm still learning, but you seem to have a much better grasp on the mathematical approach of it than I do

btw, exited long at BE, short now, looking for my initial short target of 1.3605. Let's see if it hits.
To the pip.

Target hit, Long at same price, Target range 1.3670-1.3690.

Manual SL if it dips below one of my active descending Trend Lines.
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