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CHOROS System

  • #3,461
  • Jan 13, 2011 11:27am Jan 13, 2011 11:27am
Quoting Survivor

EDIT Forgot to mention but shift to 1H is also result of laziness. I am getting addicted to one good trade in 1H and target complete- go home Maybe its a bad idea.
Clay said from the start that the Dance is stronger on higher time frames, but generates few trades. If it's giving you enough to meet your goals, and gives you more free time, then it doesn't sound bad to me.

Another thing Clay talked about is making the Dance your own -- that no two dancers are alike. I just finished The New Market Wizards, a series of interviews with super-successful traders. One of the main points that occurs over and over is that there are lots of good methods to use, and one of the main keys to success is finding a method that suits your personality. I think this point is very similar to Clay's idea of making the dance your own.
  • #3,462
  • Jan 13, 2011 11:52am Jan 13, 2011 11:52am
Quoting arha
I wouldn't trade off touches in the H1, your SL has to be too great, way too much chance for killing your account.
With a higher stop loss, you can preserve your account by reducing your lot size. This means you won't make as much per pip. But if you trade a higher time frame, you might make up the difference by getting bigger gains.

You can determine lot size as follows. Figure out what percentage you are willing to lose in a horrible day. By dance rules, a horrible day means two consecutive losses and you are out. Lets say that you are willing to take an x% hit for the day. Thus on each trade, you are willing to lose up to x/2% for the day. So the dollar amount you are willing to lose is your starting Equity for the day times x/200.

Next, figure the pip value for the currency. (With USD denominated pairs, its $10/pip for standard lots, $1/pip for minis). For other pairs it gets more complicated and probably easier to use an online pip calculator, or maybe an EA.

Finally, figure out your maximum stop loss for the time frame you are using. In the dance, the rule is 19 pips. It will be different for higher time frames, and it might be different if you focus on a particular type of trade, like constrainments.

The formula for lot size then is: (Equity*x/200) / (Pip Value)*(MaxStopLoss)
For an example for basic dance trading. Suppose you had a starting Equity of $10,000, were willing to risk 5% over two losses in a day, were trading GBPUSD, and using the dance maximum stop loss of 19. Thus, your lot size would be (10,000 * 5/ 200) / (10 * 19) = (250)/(190) = 1.31 standard lots.

Even with bigger stop losses, you can use the same kind of technique to trade with larger stop losses without necessarily risking your account. The question is not the absolute size of the stop loss, but how often the trades win and how much they return when they do win.
  • #3,463
  • Jan 13, 2011 12:25pm Jan 13, 2011 12:25pm
I have re-read the manual and gained better understanding of the dance(I think), but there is something I'm still not quite sure of. Say you see a trend moving, then it retraces two long bars and touches the "weaker" MAs, namely 5/10. Do I enter on the tap, or wait for confirmation(dojis etc) to signal it's reversal?Because without confirming, price might drop deeper and tap 35/50 instead, or just fall through it, wouldn't it?But waiting for confirmation frequently results in late, poor entries. Please enlighten me...
  • #3,464
  • Edited 2:16pm Jan 13, 2011 1:47pm | Edited 2:16pm
Quoting natnimrey
I have re-read the manual and gained better understanding of the dance(I think), but there is something I'm still not quite sure of. Say you see a trend moving, then it retraces two long bars and touches the "weaker" MAs, namely 5/10. Do I enter on the tap, or wait for confirmation(dojis etc) to signal it's reversal?Because without confirming, price might drop deeper and tap 35/50 instead, or just fall through it, wouldn't it?But waiting for confirmation frequently results in late, poor entries. Please enlighten me...

I dont wish to be rude Nat but This is not fun.

You claim you re read the manual? My question is which one? As far as i know dance doesn't even use 5EMA. dance is 10-35-50 as i know it. Someone please correct me if i am wrong. And nat if you cant correct me please find latest manual and read it. It uses only 10-35-50. I have replied earlier also- no confirmation is needed in 15M tap. In HTF touches confirmation is needed from 15M as per manual.

Just in case you are really serious- No. price doesnt just fall through MAs. you just need some simulator practice to figure it out.

Serious part of reply is this- Enter the "first tap". If its touching 10 EMa for first time enter there. next time it will touch 35/50 enter there. 35/50 needs discretion. if they are together you are in luck.. you can enter anywhere. if they are apart price will go to higher or lower one depending on currency pair. GU will go to last one. I don't know about others.
Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #3,465
  • Jan 13, 2011 1:53pm Jan 13, 2011 1:53pm
Quoting Whenever
I think that such strong moves like the one right now are the best opportunities for trading M1.

Look how many possibilities to trade or even to add to previous positions....

Interesting.
I must admit for the record that i completely missed it.

Not that i didn't know what's coming. I knew this baby is gonna shoot, thanks to dance. But i really couldn't enter at first touch in 15M. I was watching it will hawk eyes but it never really touched.

I know it's my personal problem and i am working on it- have been trying 5M confirmation and all. 1m is still off limits to me because i am yet to master even basic 15M! Lets see. Something gotta work.
Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #3,466
  • Edited 2:18pm Jan 13, 2011 2:01pm | Edited 2:18pm
Quoting arha
Hey dancers, good to see you all back after the new year! I hope you're all having a great start to this year.

I wouldn't trade off touches in the H1, your SL has to be too great, way too much chance for killing your account.
Use whatever is working for you arha but just be receptive to other possibilities.

Last 1H trade posted by me was buy GU at 1.5585. You could have done that with 10 pip SL and I don't know how that would have killed your account
Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #3,467
  • Jan 13, 2011 2:31pm Jan 13, 2011 2:31pm
Quoting Survivor
I must admit for the record that i completely missed it.

Not that i didn't know what's coming. I knew this baby is gonna shoot, thanks to dance. But i really couldn't enter at first touch in 15M. I was watching it will hawk eyes but it never really touched.

I know it's my personal problem and i am working on it- have been trying 5M confirmation and all. 1m is still off limits to me because i am yet to master even basic 15M! Lets see. Something gotta work.
you certainly do great in ranging and constrained markets, but once it trends you seem lost?
that is supposed to be the easy part.
let me ask you plz, do you know about Elliot waves?
i was planning a post on that as it seems many otherwise experienced trades dont take it into account, and are looking to buy at the end of an uptrend or short the end of a downtrend.
i still have to talk with Kostas about that as it is not Dance or Choros in any way and i dont want to mix things up here, though i think it will help.
  • #3,468
  • Jan 13, 2011 2:39pm Jan 13, 2011 2:39pm
Quoting asos101
you certainly do great in ranging and constrained markets, but once it trends you seem lost?
that is supposed to be the easy part.
let me ask you plz, do you know about Elliot waves?
i was planning a post on that as it seems many otherwise experienced trades dont take it into account, and are looking to buy at the end of an uptrend or short the end of a downtrend.
i still have to talk with Kostas about that as it is not Dance or Choros in any way and i dont want to mix things up here, though i think it will help.

I am really bad in ranging markets- i sit and suck my thumb whole day till i see a nice parallel 35/50. And then i wake up. Dont be under the inpression that constainments are ranging markets They need solid 35/50 treds to begin with.

And i really never ever want to short at top of a bull market. I got myself rid of that malady long time back. It cost me huge money but i got properly vaccinated Now i only look to buy in a bull market beginning or end; i let market decide.

And do pls share your wave theory with me at least in PM. i have been working with that but i have found it to be total crap talk till now. Basically cant make any sense
Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #3,469
  • Jan 13, 2011 2:56pm Jan 13, 2011 2:56pm
Quoting Survivor
I am really bad in ranging markets- i sit and suck my thumb whole day till i see a nice parallel 35/50. And then i wake up. Dont be under the inpression that constainments are ranging markets They need solid 35/50 treds to begin with.

And i really never ever want to short at top of a bull market. I got myself rid of that malady long time back. It cost me huge money but i got properly vaccinated Now i only look to buy in a bull market beginning or end; i let market decide.

And do pls share your wave theory with me at least in PM. i have been...
you dont need to worry about it though, with your ability to spot constrainments i wouldnt. following your posts i have become better in that so a big thank you for your contribution in the subject.
if i manage to catch Kostas this weekend i'll ask if Elliot Wave theory will be of any benefit to the thread as it is not anything ground breaking or "absolute" but at least you know what to expect if you see it, it might hold up or it will fail. in essence its another self fulfilling prophecy as Clay was saying.
by recognizing that early gives you an advantage. either way, i will catch up with you either here or private, cheers
  • #3,470
  • Edited Jan 14, 2011 10:54am Jan 13, 2011 3:46pm | Edited Jan 14, 2011 10:54am
As promised here full PDF version of original dance thread. Cant post here - it too large. Here is the link

http://www.*shared.com/document/pGzd_O2i/Dance_thread.html


Please replace * in link with 4. It's 4shared.com.

Cheers

EDIT: Link updated.
Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #3,471
  • Jan 13, 2011 6:09pm Jan 13, 2011 6:09pm
Quoting Survivor
I must admit for the record that i completely missed it.

Not that i didn't know what's coming. I knew this baby is gonna shoot, thanks to dance. But i really couldn't enter at first touch in 15M. I was watching it will hawk eyes but it never really touched.

I know it's my personal problem and i am working on it- have been trying 5M confirmation and all. 1m is still off limits to me because i am yet to master even basic 15M! Lets see. Something gotta work.
I had the same problem - 2 entries where I was poised to enter - the first had 4 little almost dojis on M1 (but I am just working out M1 PA) and the second touched the H1 and D1 10 EMAs, but I was expecting it to drop a few more pips to the M15 35/50 - missed the lot and deserve to be slapped around the head with a wet fish, but let's see what tonight brings (maybe quiet after such a big move)!
  • #3,472
  • Jan 13, 2011 7:39pm Jan 13, 2011 7:39pm
Quoting Survivor
I dont wish to be rude Nat but This is not fun.

You claim you re read the manual? My question is which one? As far as i know dance doesn't even use 5EMA. dance is 10-35-50 as i know it. Someone please correct me if i am wrong. And nat if you cant correct me please find latest manual and read it. It uses only 10-35-50...
Thanks for the reply Survivor, I really appreciate your patience. I think I typed 5/10 just for the sake of it because they're so close together, but I only use 10EMA too...so no argument about that. Also, the reason why I'm seeing price falling thru MAs, is probably because of news events, which is not indicated on the simulator. And after reading your post, now I'm clear about the first tap,thanks
  • #3,473
  • Jan 13, 2011 7:53pm Jan 13, 2011 7:53pm
Quoting natnimrey
Thanks for the reply Survivor, I really appreciate your patience. I think I typed 5/10 just for the sake of it because they're so close together, but I only use 10EMA too...so no argument about that. Also, the reason why I'm seeing price falling thru MAs, is probably because of news events, which is not indicated on the simulator. And after reading your post, now I'm clear about the first tap,thanks
To be fair, natnimrey, there was a 5 EMA early in the piece, but Clay dispensed with it. Some people were still using it early in the Dance thread, but it soon disappeared altogether.

You'll get times when what seems like a AAA setup goes against you. That's part of trading, as no one can predict what price will do.

You can only use what is probable, and when it doesn't go your way, and you can rest assured that this will occur, you simply have to move on to the next one.
  • #3,474
  • Jan 13, 2011 9:52pm Jan 13, 2011 9:52pm
Quoting bigtent
To be fair, natnimrey, there was a 5 EMA early in the piece, but Clay dispensed with it. Some people were still using it early in the Dance thread, but it soon disappeared altogether...
I will keep that in mind, thanks. But I really gotta learn how to hold out for AAAs, and not enter at every opportunity...
  • #3,475
  • Jan 14, 2011 2:43am Jan 14, 2011 2:43am
Got this beauty on 1H EU and GU.

GU got stopped out on that last hour whipsaw but thanks to milking machine was net +20.

And EU went straight for a century... Thats a first for me. Am certainly loving it

Note: trades are obvious but will post charts later if someone needs them. Right now i gonna take a break for the day and celebrate my +120 for the day
Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #3,476
  • Jan 14, 2011 3:13am Jan 14, 2011 3:13am
Hi everybody,

I am new to forex and new member of Forex Factory. I started trading just 3 months ago and I can say that I am really fired up. Actually I have dedicated hundreds of hours reading about technicals and fundamentals.

Few days ago I found the "Dance" manual. Since I have read several trading systems through the internet I thought "oh, another pip generator machine bla bla bla etc".

But I have to say that it is very well written with very serious approach in what we call trading system and profit. It seems to be very simple and the most imoprtant to me, it doesn't promise 1000 pips per day, not even 100.

Anyway, I don't want to waste your time so I was wondering if you people could share your experience with me. Is it as simple as it says? If I follow "The Dance", will I be able to generate about 40 pips per day?

Excuse me for changing the current "flow" of the thread but I thought this it the best place for getting some advice.

Thank you for your time
You are allowed to fall but you are imposed to get up!
  • #3,477
  • Jan 14, 2011 4:08am Jan 14, 2011 4:08am
Note: trades are obvious but will post charts later if someone needs them. Right now i gonna take a break for the day and celebrate my +120 for the day[/quote]



hello

it is always easier to understand with chart and little explanation which is why clay thread is interesting. it might not be an easy think to do but it will help even for those the will later read this thread
  • #3,478
  • Jan 14, 2011 4:13am Jan 14, 2011 4:13am
Quoting iero4
If I follow "The Dance", will I be able to generate about 40 pips per day?
Most probably yes, you can achieve that, but personally I still can't (half a year of trading "dance"). I guess it's more about yourself, than the strategy or method.
  • #3,479
  • Jan 14, 2011 4:27am Jan 14, 2011 4:27am
Quoting iero4
Hi everybody,

I am new to forex and new member of Forex Factory. I...
It is simple if you make it simple. Just learn the method, focus on the best opportunities and get rid of your fears & greed.
Dance is just one of several trading strategies that are profitable if you just follow the basic rules. The problem is that usually we overcomplicate things and then trading becomes difficult.
For me, Dance opened my eyes and helped me see the market flowing with the help of the MAs, RNs, etc. But I was experienced with trading already. So if you are new to trading you will have to pay your tuition fees one way or the other. Sticking to this strategy will help you minimize the fees and start becoming profitable. My advice if you choose to stay around is to trade exclusively the Dance in DEMO for 2-3 months and if you get positive, open a small account to trade with real money (even pennies, just REAL). Only if you graduate these two steps you can start with a regular account.

Kostas
  • #3,480
  • Jan 14, 2011 5:36am Jan 14, 2011 5:36am
Quoting kostas1
The problem is that usually we overcomplicate things and then trading becomes difficult.

Just needed to hi-light that!
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