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CHOROS System

  • #2,741
  • Nov 18, 2010 7:46am Nov 18, 2010 7:46am
Quoting lucas101
are the rules the same before???
Yes rules are same as before. However recently a updated manual was posted. Please download the manual. It very detailed.
Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #2,742
  • Nov 18, 2010 7:50am Nov 18, 2010 7:50am
Quoting Survivor
Yes rules are same as before. However recently a updated manual was posted. Please download the manual. It very detailed.
thanks for your information
  • #2,743
  • Edited 9:04am Nov 18, 2010 7:54am | Edited 9:04am
Quoting Whenever
Worked out for me too:

In at 6023
Out at 6003

Target achieved: Out for today.

I found later out that the entry it was also a H1 S/R level..

Nice one, Next (tomorrow)
Good trading Whatever!!

I learnt from Kostas's post that GU usually needs to test all levels before turning, was a good lesson today to watch Price test H1 and H4 MAs before turning

right now price trying to break R2 at 1.60000, let's see if NY can do that, or it'll be a bounce up from here..

Done for the day, i've left a small running on demo with SL at BE at 1.6019 to "learn" how to let the move run, if i'm stopped out no worries, it'll be a good learning experience to trade like how Clay does..

EDIT: stopped out at +4.. there goes my adventure ..
  • #2,744
  • Nov 18, 2010 8:43am Nov 18, 2010 8:43am
Quoting Whenever
I wish I would have trusted more my intuition of the Long.

My 8 pips would be now something like 90 within the morning

A look at a possible next situation:

H4 35/50 - Daily Touch Ema10

A look at that.

Ciao
Please, no room for digression .... NEXT

"Doubt, of whatever kind, can be ended by action alone." ~ Thomas Carlyle
1795-1881, Philosopher and Author
  • #2,745
  • Nov 18, 2010 9:51am Nov 18, 2010 9:51am
Quoting Survivor
Wonder if only whenever can answer that or others are free to comment ?

Anyway i was watching it closely and passed this trade. Indded there was confluence of 1H 10EMA, and 15M 35/50. However i passed the trade because of these:

1. Not first touch of 15 m 35/ 50. Multiple touches and crosseovers before at these very MAs
2. Not steep enough to my liking
3. The shooting star like candle in 1h
4. Finaaly the biggest reason: As many experienced people have noted here often GU would like to test last S/R level. Here, there was daily pivot...
I went to sleep just before all this happened. That's OK, since I'm still only on demo. I entered a short at the peak of the candle just above the monthly pivot. It was a perfect tap on the H1 62EMA. When it hit a very quick 15 pips, I closed the trade and went to sleep.

I probably would have been tempted on the 35/50 MA tap here. All of Survivor's points are excellent. On the other hand, the MAs are absolutely on top of each other. That mitigates the flatness to some extent.

For me, the other important thing here is to look to the left. There had already been three wide swings through the 35/50, and none of them respected either level. And there are six candles to the left that have almost identical lows, just below the Round number and the Daily Pivot. So I hope that's the point that I was looking for.

Indeed, just before going to sleep, I remember wondering whether it was going to hit the Daily Pivot again, because that's where I would want to go long. Who knows if that's what I would actually do. I'd like to think so, and I guess I will find out in a few weeks.
  • #2,746
  • Nov 18, 2010 9:55am Nov 18, 2010 9:55am
Quoting Survivor
Ok frustrated with missing many moves today. So have taken Au here. Not a dance trade as per rules. but looks like a contra trade here to me . 15 M diverging 35/50. Rejection at RN and pivot resitance. Doji in 1H. Daily MAs copnfulence. 4H 35/50 first touch (Not ni chart). Anyway now +20 and Sl locked at cost+5 pips so not much to worry.

Edit: Got out at +10 after 15M 10ema looked like holding
Good trade. As I see this, you had a shooting star at a round number and it was also at a touch of a daily MA? This may not be a by the rules dance trade, but it looks to me like its a sound incorporation of all the dance ideas.
  • #2,747
  • Nov 18, 2010 10:08am Nov 18, 2010 10:08am
Quoting diamonddbw
One more red flag, on this trade, is that it took 4 candles to reach the 35/50 on the 15m. One of the main tenets of the dance, I believe, is valid set ups need to retrace in 2 candles or less.
Fewer bars are better. The newest manual at one point says the two bar rule applies to 10EMA touches. In two other spots, it seems to apply the rule to 35 and 50 MA touches.

In earlier versions, it was pretty clear that the two bar rule only applied to 10EMA touches. With 35/50 touches, the main considerations were the steepness of the MAs, how close they were, and how parallel the were.

Thanks for pointing this out. My first reaction to your statement was that you were not right. Clay's latest version shows that you probably are right. The funny thing is that I read the manual again just last weekend, and I didn't catch this subtle change.
  • #2,748
  • Nov 18, 2010 10:15pm Nov 18, 2010 10:15pm
Quoting Fxprince12
Hi willkohsg,kostas1..

I saw this setup but i don't know when "to pull the trigger"/enter for short..
i saw on my chart H4 35SMA (1.6017) 50 EMA (1.6031), Daily 10EMA (1.6015)

What is the criteria to enter for this kind of Confluence..do you look on lower TF or wait to touch highest TF MA (in this case Daily TF)...
Notice that willkohsg enter @1.6021 while kostas1 @1.6026..

perhaps you guys can enlighten newbie like me...
thanks in advance...
Hey buddy even i was confused initially. Remeber this rule of thumb- GU will test last resistance. Here you have got 1.6031. Check the high of that move
Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #2,749
  • Edited Nov 19, 2010 12:03am Nov 18, 2010 10:29pm | Edited Nov 19, 2010 12:03am
Quoting duffypratt
Fewer bars are better....

Yes fewer bars are better but i find this rule confusing sometimes. Makes me miss good trades. See GU in ldn session yesterday. Anyone following this rule religiously would have misses entire move. What i personally do is i ALWAYS take first touch after 10EMA has crossed 35/50. Only rule i follow is 10EMA must be reasonably steep. I ignore the two bar rule for first touch. I dont intend to mess with the system and i am still learning. So dont follow me but thats what i do.

Maybe Kostas can shed some light.

EDIT: One more thing i forgot to mention about how i trade these touches. Just in case someone tries it. Remeber that judging steepness of 10ema is often confusing. sometimes it will look steep when you take the trad ebut after you lose it becomes flathttp://cdn.forexfactory.com/images/s.../yim/happy.gif So a good thing to look for distance bewteen 10 ema and 35/50. If its quite far then its a faily safe trade. if 10 ema is close to 35/50 better pass it. So maybe we can use minimum 15 pip distance between 10 ema and 35/50 when the "touch" is happening.
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Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #2,750
  • Nov 18, 2010 11:22pm Nov 18, 2010 11:22pm
Hi Survivor ,

I have a question on your post . How do you define or refine that its first touch of 10 MA ? I always get confusing with it .
Pls look at chart where I entered thinking that it was first touch of 10 Ma and ended up with lose . What can be my mistake ? Now from what I see I guess that price should be moved at least more than 20 pips from 35/50 , there should be at least 3 bars closed (preferably green ) after cross . Its comparing my entry with your first entry .
Sorry asking too much .
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  • #2,751
  • Nov 18, 2010 11:27pm Nov 18, 2010 11:27pm
Quoting Survivor
Yes fewer bars are better but i find this rule confusing sometimes. Makes me miss good trades. See GU in ldn session yesterday. Anyone following this rule religiously would have misses entire move. What i personally do is i ALWAYS take first touch after 10EMA has crossed 35/50. Only rule i follow is 10EMA must be reasonably steep. I ignore the two bar rule for first touch. I dont intend to mess with the system and i am still learning. So dont follow me but thats what i do.

Maybe Kostas can shed some light.
Thanks for pointing out the 10 ema 1st touch. I thought that I had noticed this quite often. It's kinda like that bread crumb thing, uno following the clues.

I like sorting and organizing little details about all trades. Am still working on formulating the Dance Data Base, which should be quite revealing. Even if it just allows us to be more accurate by a few percentage points, that would (for sure) help.

"Do not wait; the time will never be 'just right.' Start where you stand, and work with whatever tools you may have at your command, and better tools will be found as you go along." ~ Napoleon Hill
1883-1970, Author of Think and Grow Rich
  • #2,752
  • Nov 18, 2010 11:34pm Nov 18, 2010 11:34pm
Quoting baavgai
Hi Survivor ,

I have a question on your post . What can be my mistake ? Now from what I see I guess that price should be moved at least more than 20 pips from 35/50
You got it right. Price should have moved 20 pips. I count frist touch after price has crosses 35/50. So your trade was certaily first touch. But i see steepnees of 10 EMA. if it has moved much then 10 ema will be steep. in your trade it was almost flat. thats why i didnt take that one. Actually i rarely use 20 pips rule. I prefer much more move then that. else mostly its fake move.Hope that helps
Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #2,753
  • Nov 18, 2010 11:40pm Nov 18, 2010 11:40pm
Quoting Survivor
Yes fewer bars are better but i find this rule confusing sometimes. Makes me miss good trades. See GU in ldn session yesterday. Anyone following this rule religiously would have misses entire move. What i personally do is i ALWAYS take first touch after 10EMA has crossed 35/50. Only rule i follow is 10EMA must be reasonably steep. I ignore the two bar rule for first touch. I dont intend to mess with the system and i am still learning. So dont follow me but thats what i do.

Maybe Kostas can shed some light.
This is a very interesting observation. It's definitely not "by the rules," but it would be very easy to test. I just did a quick visual test running back to September. I came up with 20 trades where the 10EMA crossed, the angle was steep enough, and it took more than two bars to make the first touch of the 10EMA. 14 were potential winners; and six lost. I didn't see any that were clearly breakeven trades, but that would depend on how one exited. That's not a very big sample, but it's also very far from disproving you. (I actually thought you might be wrong, and that disproof would be fairly easy. And once again, I was wrong.)
  • #2,754
  • Nov 18, 2010 11:55pm Nov 18, 2010 11:55pm
Quoting duffypratt
This is a very interesting observation....

Good analysis duffy. I need to learn that from you. I rarely do serious backtest. I observe things anf follow them if i am convinced.
Please note that i dont take these first touch of 10 ema only for profitability. I take them because if you miss first touch in a good move then you will get badly frustrated. The reason is subsequent touches you are never sure to take the trade. And price keeps moving. So you have to wait for some good contra trend setup or reversal. That can be quite a wait. Often one first touch in a session and market moves whole day in same direction. As trader i have to take my chances with first one.

EDIT: One more thing i forgot to mention about how i trade these touches. Just in case someone tries it. Remeber that judging steepness of 10ema is often confusing. sometimes it will look steep when you take the trad ebut after you lose it becomes flat So a good thing to look for distance bewteen 10 ema and 35/50. If its quite far then its a faily safe trade. if 10 ema is close to 35/50 better pass it. So maybe we can use minimum 15 pip distance between 10 ema and 35/50 as a good filter
Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #2,755
  • Nov 19, 2010 12:33am Nov 19, 2010 12:33am
Quoting Survivor
EDIT: One more thing i forgot to mention about how i trade these touches. Just in case someone tries it. Remeber that judging steepness of 10ema is often confusing. sometimes it will look steep when you take the trad ebut after you lose it becomes flat So a good thing to look for distance bewteen 10 ema and 35/50. If its quite far then its a faily safe trade. if 10 ema is close to 35/50 better pass it. So maybe we can use minimum 15 pip distance between 10 ema and 35/50 as a good filter
Hi Survivor,
thanks for answering my post early on..and thanks for sharing your observation as above..it really helps newcomer like me to get more understanding of this system..

other question is for you or other guys that have used this system successfully...Is it true that max SL only 19 ??...(as mentioned in the dance manual)
  • #2,756
  • Nov 19, 2010 12:44am Nov 19, 2010 12:44am
Quoting Survivor
Hey buddy even i was confused initially. Remeber this rule of thumb- GU will test last resistance. Here you have got 1.6031. Check the high of that move
Hi Guys,
i know Kostas used the M5 to refine his entries, have to wait for him to explain his entry

For me I entered half a position at 1.6016 and added rest at 1.6021 at the second pinbar which formed a tweezer top.
  • #2,757
  • Edited 1:44am Nov 19, 2010 12:46am | Edited 1:44am
entered at 1.6041, i was slow to react so didnt get it at the best price

TP half position at +8, was wary of the RN 1.6050 that might bounce off it or retrace so closed half to book profits.

Moved stop for 2nd half of position to BE+2 now trailing it now.

I see Tons of confluence at this touch,therefore the huge run up.

M15 35
H1 10
D1 10

EDIT: moved stop to 1.6057,Low of last 15min candle

EDIT: Out at 1.6073, looks like price going to retrace. I could be wrong
Attached Image
  • #2,758
  • Nov 19, 2010 12:50am Nov 19, 2010 12:50am
Quoting Fxprince12
Hi Survivor,
thanks for answering my post early on..and thanks for sharing your observation as above..it really helps newcomer like me to get more understanding of this system..

other question is for you or other guys that have used this system successfully...Is it true that max SL only 19 ??...(as mentioned in the dance manual)
Dont even doubt that for a moment. As per manual yes its 19 pips max. But most of experienced traders dont take that kind of crazy risk!!

I personally rarely take 12 more than 12 pip loss. Initially i keep 9 pips for 10 ema touch and 15-16 pips for 35/50 touch trades. for constrainments initial SL is rarely more than 5 pips. But these are initial SLs. I would reccommend you tighten SL agressively once it moves in your favour. And if price action in 15 M or 5M suggests bad trade dont wait for Sl to be hit. Get out at whatever best you can get. I will explain with an example.

I took this first touch of EU- ( not a very convincing trade because 10 EMA is very close to 35/50). But after trade i found a major reversal candle in 15 Minutes (You can read my earlier posts where i have mentuioned that these candles often result in major reverse moves). So i covered it at -3 pips without waiting for my 9 pip sl to be hit.

In simple terms- large SL will ensure quick death of your account.
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Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #2,759
  • Nov 19, 2010 1:00am Nov 19, 2010 1:00am
Quoting Fxprince12
Hi Survivor,
thanks for answering my post early on..and thanks for sharing your observation as above..it really helps newcomer like me to get more understanding of this system..

other question is for you or other guys that have used this system successfully...Is it true that max SL only 19 ??...(as mentioned in the dance manual)
I can't speak as a successful user -- only as a student.

Clay not only says that 19 is the maximum stop, it also seems like he uses it as an emergency stop. In many places, it looks like he moves the stop to 6 or 7 plus spread. For 10EMA touch trades, he says 11 pips max for the stop.

Three points on this:

1) If you look at the charts, its pretty easy to see that a good trade will usually move quickly in your favor.

2) The main reason for using a bigger stop is because there is support/resistance on the other side of your trade. In these situations, it might be better to wait to see if those areas will get tested.

3) With stops so tight, there is very good reason for trying to find a broker who doesn't trade against you. You might still fall victim to stop hunting in general, but with an ECN or STP broker, you can at least have some confidence that your stop in particular is not being targeted.

Let me ask a question: Can you think of a situation where you have an A+ dance trade, but you also need a bigger stop?
  • #2,760
  • Nov 19, 2010 1:07am Nov 19, 2010 1:07am
Quoting Survivor
Dont even doubt that for a moment. As per manual yes its 19 pips max. But most of experienced traders dont take that kind of crazy risk!!

I personally rarely take 12 more than 12 pip loss. Initially i keep 9 pips for 10 ema touch and 15-16 pips for 35/50 touch trades. for constrainments initial SL is rarely more than 5 pips. But these are initial SLs. I would reccommend you tighten SL agressively once it moves in your favour. And if price action in 15 M or 5M suggests bad trade dont wait for Sl to be hit. Get out at whatever best you can get....
Again..many thanks survivor...very clear explanation + chart...
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