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Who has become rich trading forex?

  • #121
  • Nov 7, 2010 11:36am Nov 7, 2010 11:36am
by Ecclesiastes 1:9: What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun
  • #122
  • Nov 12, 2010 2:56am Nov 12, 2010 2:56am
I'm certainly not 'rich' from trading forex, however it does provide an excellent, regular income. Over a 5 year period I have made around £60,000. Not a fortune but a good income boost.
  • #123
  • Nov 13, 2010 10:21am Nov 13, 2010 10:21am
Quoting highneb
I'm certainly not 'rich' from trading forex, however it does provide an excellent, regular income. Over a 5 year period I have made around £60,000. Not a fortune but a good income boost.
If you made this money by using technical analysis, stop loses and "trading discipline" then you are very very lucky or you are damn liar!
  • #124
  • Edited 10:55am Nov 13, 2010 10:44am | Edited 10:55am
Quoting kundrit
Imagine go enrolling to the world toughest Department of Forex Investment of the universities as listed below (toughest than Physics Department in MIT, Caltech or Oxford University). These are

1. Alpari University in UK (Rank No 3) or
2. ACM Institute of Tech in UK (Rank No 4) or
3. Oanda University (Rank No 5) or
4. Ducascopy University of Switzerland (Rank No 2)
5. dBFX University of Germany (Rank No 1).
Those aren't universities, they're casinos.

If it's education you want, stay the hell away from those. Teach yourself some math (prob/statistics), some economics (supply/demand), some psychology, market nature and mechanics (e.g. why/how prices moves), etc. Pick only scientific/academic sources and stay away from trading "education" written by self-proclaimed gurus, newbies, traders who are on a winning run and think they now know everything, broker affiliates, and last but not least: brokers. Whenever you spot any of that education, move away.

Quoting alig
The only way to gain in forex or any other market is to really understand FUNDAMENTALS and ONLY FUNDAMENTALS
Not true.

Quoting JohnFX_King
What I also understood - its almost impossible to win high profits having too small deposit (at least smaller than 10000$)
Not true, unless your trade frequency is very low.

Ever heard of compound interest? If you can't compound successfully/consistently, you don't have an edge. If you do have an edge, you can start with as little as $100.
  • #125
  • Nov 13, 2010 4:11pm Nov 13, 2010 4:11pm
Quoting alig
If you made this money by using technical analysis, stop loses and "trading discipline" then you are very very lucky or you are damn liar!
..not sure why i'm being called a 'damn lier'. please explain.

In 5 years of trading, I have made approx £60,000.

this is starting with a £100,000 account.

So thats about 10% per year compounded.
This is not so remarkable.
  • #126
  • Nov 13, 2010 4:13pm Nov 13, 2010 4:13pm
Quoting highneb
..not sure why i'm being called a 'damn lier'. please explain.

In 5 years of trading, I have made approx £60,000.

this is starting with a £100,000 account.

So thats about 10% per year compounded.
This is not so remarkable.

That is only a little over 7.5% annually. Depending on where you live you have barely outperformed inflation. Do yourself a favour and research less risky vehicles that give you that and more.
  • #127
  • Nov 13, 2010 4:36pm Nov 13, 2010 4:36pm
Quoting cloggie
That is only a little over 7.5% annually. Depending on where you live you have barely outperformed inflation. Do yourself a favour and research less risky vehicles that give you that and more.
As I said 10% per year (compounded).

This is a reasonable return, but not spectacular. Why should I go to other investment types I know little about. Forex is working well for me. Will give me a decent pension pot in a few years.
  • #128
  • Edited 4:53pm Nov 13, 2010 4:39pm | Edited 4:53pm
Quoting highneb
As I said 10% per year (compounded).
.

You may want to recalculate that:

Year 1 100,000 x 8.15% = 108,150
Year 2 108,150 x 8.15% = 116,964
Year 3 116,964 x 8.15% = 126,496
Year 4 126,496 x 8.15% = 136,806
Year 5 136,806 x 8.15% = 147,956
Year 6 147,956 x 8.15% = 160,014

Like I said, why bother. Buy a Stocks/Bonds ETF and your money is lots safer. They have returned 9.22% on average per year in the last 100 years. Your trading return fails to outperform what is commercially available to any punter and you should seriously reasses your portfolio. Any money manager out there would tell you exactly the same thing: stay away from FX with those kind of returns, the risk far outweighs your return.

Why do most retailers have such a shocking knowledge of basic maths?
  • #129
  • Edited 5:55pm Nov 13, 2010 5:18pm | Edited 5:55pm
Quoting cloggie
You may want to recalculate that:

Year 1 100,000 x 8.15% = 108,150
Year 2 108,150 x 8.15% = 116,964
Year 3 116,964 x 8.15% = 126,496
Year 4 126,496 x 8.15% = 136,806
Year 5 136,806 x 8.15% = 147,956
Year 6 147,956 x 8.15% = 160,014

Like I said, why bother. Buy a Stocks/Bonds ETF and your money is lots safer. They have returned 9.22% on average per year in the last 100 years. Your trading return fails to outperform what is commercially available to any punter and you should seriously reasses your portfolio. Any money manager out there would...

????
Before mud slinging my friend, you will notice that I said 5 years not 6. So thats 10% compounded (as I said).

The Dow is pretty much where it was 5 years ago (which is when I started in forex), so I'm pretty happy with my 10% per year trading forex. Anyway, thanks for the concern and good luck with your stocks and bonds.

LOL
  • #130
  • Nov 13, 2010 6:17pm Nov 13, 2010 6:17pm
Quoting highneb
????
Before mud slinging my friend, you will notice that I said 5 years not 6. So thats 10% compounded (as I said).
I stand corrected.

BTW, stocks and bonds for me is the basis of my capital preservation, FX is the icing on the cake.
  • #131
  • Edited 7:48am Nov 14, 2010 5:18am | Edited 7:48am
Cloggie brings up an interesting question. Why do we trade Forex? Rather than compounding steady returns in other markets.

I think Forex gives investors the chance to be creative. Developing trading strategies is interesting, intellectually challenging and fun.

These are the facts I know and have learned the hard way:

 

  1. Forex trading is endlessly fascinating
  2. Profitable trading is extremely difficult, very few will survive
  3. Forex trading is an extremely addictive way to gamble
  4. Real money and demo money are totally different
  5. Money is not always safe with your broker
  6. Lagging indicators will loose money MA's, MACD, Stochs etc
  7. The vast majority of market parameters have 50% probabilities
  8. Even if you find an edge, it may disappear without warning
  9. Most systems and methods don't work in practice
  10. Pretty much all 'educators' are failed traders
  11. Always use strategies which are suited to your personality
  12. Don't give up the day job (until you are 101% sure u can survive).

  • #132
  • Nov 15, 2010 6:27am Nov 15, 2010 6:27am
Quoting Marv
Those aren't universities, they're casinos.

If it's education you want, stay the hell away from those. Teach yourself some math (prob/statistics), some economics (supply/demand), some psychology, market nature and mechanics (e.g. why/how prices moves), etc. Pick only scientific/academic sources and stay away from trading "education" written by self-proclaimed gurus, newbies, traders who are on a winning run and think they now know everything, broker affiliates, and last but not least: brokers. Whenever you spot any of that education,...

Hi Marv..its not casino at all, but you can have casino mentality if you like. That's why 95% in forex trading is loser because of that I believed. I know that (not university), and FYI 70% commercial bank profit made through forex trading and no wonder that deutsche bank is the world largest forex bank and the world most profitable bank too. Goldman Sach made profit through forex trading too by providing liquidity to most hedge funds industries and still up to date. Defunct Lehman Bros and LTCM is liquidity provider and player too and not casino whatsoever.
  • #133
  • Edited 11:44am Nov 15, 2010 7:29am | Edited 11:44am
I was clearly talking about your average internet br0ker (market maker), not the big market participants such as Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank.

Such br0kers are like a casino in many ways. They all have an order matching system where they pay the winners with the losers' money, then collect the house edge (spread/commission) very much like a casino organizing a poker game and collecting the rake , but if and only if there is a disequilibrium within the internal order book, they hedge their exposure with a tier 2 liquidity provider.

Quoting kundrit
you can have casino mentality if you like. That's why 95% in forex trading is loser
They lose because they don't have an edge. If you don't have an edge, you'd lose eventually, no matter what mentality you have.
  • #134
  • Nov 15, 2010 11:29am Nov 15, 2010 11:29am
Quoting highneb
[list][*] Forex trading is endlessly fascinating[*] Profitable trading is extremely difficult, very few will survive[*] Forex trading is an extremely addictive way to gamble[*] Real money and demo money are totally different[*] Money is not always safe with your broker[*] Lagging indicators will loose money MA's, MACD, Stochs etc[*] The vast majority of market parameters have 50% probabilities[*] Even if you find an edge, it may disappear without warning[*] Most systems and methods don't work in practice[*] Pretty much all 'educators'...

True, but it is also very stressful...
At least i know a lot of ppl who stay up late, and waste a precious amount of time to do very little.

You must have it in you i guess.
Sure it is not worth it to spend 4h a day for 10% a year
You'd better put that money in a bank and get intrest.
  • #135
  • Nov 15, 2010 2:25pm Nov 15, 2010 2:25pm
Quoting Marv
They lose because they don't have an edge. If you don't have an edge, you'd lose eventually, no matter what mentality you have.

I agree with you, its difficult to built an edge in forex trading, since its different from one to another participants
  • #136
  • Nov 15, 2010 5:25pm Nov 15, 2010 5:25pm
Quoting highneb
I'm certainly not 'rich' from trading forex, however it does provide an excellent, regular income. Over a 5 year period I have made around £60,000. Not a fortune but a good income boost.

That is very similar to what my goals are. I still have my day job and my trading provides a boost to my income. If forex trading can provide for some optional nice things in life, stuff like fly business class instead of economy or like a big screen home theater etc, then I am happy.
We're all stories in the end. Just try to make it a good one.
  • #137
  • Edited 6:50pm Nov 15, 2010 6:33pm | Edited 6:50pm
Quoting highneb
Cloggie brings up an interesting question. Why do we trade Forex? Rather than compounding steady returns in other markets.

I think Forex gives investors the chance to be creative. Developing trading strategies is interesting, intellectually challenging and fun.

These are the facts I know and have learned the hard way:


[list][*] Forex trading is endlessly fascinating[*] Profitable trading is extremely difficult, very few will survive[*] Forex trading is an extremely addictive way to gamble[*] Real money and demo money are totally different[*]...
Ok you earned 60k from 100k in 5 years by looking the charts and betting - speculating that the trend will continue or something like that. You were not very very lucky just very lucky. By looking at the statistics your "strategy" probable had around 10% (guessing) to earn 60% or more on invested capital. The edge is still not on your side! You need clear statistical edge and by looking at the charts you don't have it.

The real forex investors understands fundamentals. I am not expert in forex fundamentals but I think the most important is the power of central bank that protects the currency and yearly import/export related to country budget figures. If central currency bank is weak and loss from import/export is large in relation to country budget than central bank must adopt to the market by lowering the currency value. If central bank is strong than it can hold the high price of currency... Trade the strongest currency acording to calculations from figures against the weakest currency and be patient. Keep position for several years even if you are temporary loosing. Find good books on how to calculate the "real value" of currency from figures.
Study George Soros how he is doing it.
  • #138
  • Nov 15, 2010 7:10pm Nov 15, 2010 7:10pm
Quoting alig
by looking at the charts you don't have it.
No.
  • #139
  • Nov 16, 2010 1:21am Nov 16, 2010 1:21am
It doesn't goes up and down with the same frequency and amplitude. If it does, then forex trading is a zero sum game machine (loser and winner are equal). The edge is the 'amplitude differences" that determine the winner and the loser. Those who know precisely when it make the differences (the edge) is the winner (5% traders) and those who don't know is the loser (95% trader). Any softwares developer that said that his will tell where the edge is (holy grail location), are no more than a seller riding holy cow peddling "snake oil" that said it will cure every deseases.

The real edge in forex trading is to look, where and when the difference of amplitude will occur and there is no particular currency pair that have the magic since central bank is the real holder of edge in forex trading. It just like surfing you have to wait for the wind and wave and this meant that time is the real edge that you have to look for and not trading frequency because forex work not the same manner as sewing machine "what goes up will go down and what goes down will go up" yes it is, but unfortunately it is the amplitude and frequency that make a real difference than those "sewing machine".
  • #140
  • Nov 16, 2010 6:55am Nov 16, 2010 6:55am
Quoting kundrit
It doesn't goes up and down with the same frequency and amplitude. If it does, then forex trading is a zero sum game machine (loser and winner are equal). The edge is the 'amplitude differences" that determine the winner and the loser. Those who know precisely when it make the differences (the edge) is the winner (5% traders) and those who don't know is the loser (95% trader). Any softwares developer that said that his will tell where the edge is (holy grail location), are no more than a seller riding holy cow peddling "snake oil" that said it...
Amplitudes and frequencies are random and in theory you should break even on the long run. The reason why you will loose money is in forex broker spread. I think casino is nicer place to gamble than forex client. Don't you think so?
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