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  • #2,341
  • Oct 28, 2010 4:30am Oct 28, 2010 4:30am
Quoting Survivor
I took it and still holding

Anyway Good work. Keep it up. I Like your "Next" - That attitude has helped me a lot
Well, lucky you were... I waited too long and is now -60 pips GU turned fiercely bullish...
  • #2,342
  • Oct 28, 2010 4:36am Oct 28, 2010 4:36am
Quoting Survivor
I took it and still holding

Anyway Good work. Keep it up. I Like your "Next" - That attitude has helped me a lot
Yes, I understand you, me too.
It is a part of what I am learning reading that book (Trading in the Zone).

It is a business,
It is a work,
it has no feelings,
it works or doesn't
for sure it doesn't depend on the market if we are winning or losing

I can imagine that this attitude could be one of the reasons why watching a professional trading we could not see on their face either they are losing or winning.

It is just a matter of discipline and not of the result of the moment.

PS: are you still keeping the short....after the bounce off the Weekly pivot ??? I think you are talking about a long ?
  • #2,343
  • Oct 28, 2010 4:44am Oct 28, 2010 4:44am
dont forget to look at the daily charts!
after i saw GU was holding the support of daily SMA35 i went long @5892 and closed for +46pips.

it was not a dance trade but who cares.
but i got the information because a dance trade was near to fail.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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trading is like dancing, don't think and just listen to the music!
  • #2,344
  • Oct 28, 2010 4:50am Oct 28, 2010 4:50am
Quoting Norg
Well, lucky you were... I waited too long and is now -60 pips GU turned fiercely bullish...

Norg you seriously holding positions for -60 pips? Even i took that trade and cut losses above 1.58 RN. Think even my SL was way too much. For a dance i could have easily kept SL above 90. I would suggest using SL as expalined in manual..

Anyway having bad time here. two trades and 26 pips down. Cursing myself for allowing 20 pip SL. Next has to be winner or last one.

Edit: Here's what i do- I decide where will be my SL BEFORE taking the trade. If its too far i wait for price to come near or pass the trade. Then i place SL first. Then i initiate the trade.Advantage is the moment you enter into trade you are covered. Something crazy happens and your Sl gets hit before you trade then most likely you will mint monet on it or at least get out at breakeven.

P.S. Nice catch bridland
Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #2,345
  • Oct 28, 2010 4:57am Oct 28, 2010 4:57am
Quoting Norg
Well, lucky you were... I waited too long and is now -60 pips GU turned fiercely bullish...
Hi Norg,

I know it is a stupid question and I want to say in advance that this question is the most painful one I asked myself just after blowing out my real account a while ago...:

***
Why did I not "just" respect (here is the point of cold discipline against feelings) the TS and closed at SL and reverse or wait for the next signal ?
***

I think 99% of all traders in the world had at least once this question....

I just ask (knowing well myself the answer) for underlining the importance of "do not change the rules and stick to them".....

For myself at first and for everybody else here in our great Group.

PS: I will NEVER forget that pink color on the account balance just before the Margin Call...I hate that color !
  • #2,346
  • Edited 8:22am Oct 28, 2010 4:57am | Edited 8:22am
Quoting Survivor
Norg you seriously holding positions for -60 pips?
Yes, I do, I just can't control myself to cope with losing.
Anyway, I learned my mistake: forgot about weekly pivot at 1.5777; I was trading from my mobile phone, where there're no pivot and S/R levels shown.

PS: -120 pips now... really bad day.
PPS: ...but hope it's ok for most of you, as there were 3 perfect 10EMA touch-and-run-off trades on GU on its bullish trend.
  • #2,347
  • Oct 28, 2010 4:58am Oct 28, 2010 4:58am
Quoting Survivor
Norg you seriously holding positions for -60 pips? Even i took that trade and cut losses above 1.58 RN. Think even my SL was way too much. For a dance i could have easily kept SL above 90. I would suggest using SL as expalined in manual..

Anyway having bad time here. two trades and 26 pips down. Cursing myself for allowing 20 pip SL. Next has to be winner or last one.

P.S. Nice catch bridland
norg, 60pips? if so please find a way to avoid such huge stops!

well survivor, keep up the head and stop, if you have 3 trades on a day negativ. if only 2 trades minus, wait for the nex AAA-signal
even if its happening at the end of the trading day.
some days are not made for good trading or for your style.
then its very wise to accept that.
trading is like dancing, don't think and just listen to the music!
  • #2,348
  • Oct 28, 2010 5:01am Oct 28, 2010 5:01am
Quoting Norg
Yes, I do, I just can't control myself to cope with losing.
Anyway, I learned my mistake: forgot about weekly pivot at 1.5777; I was trading from my mobile phone, where there're no pivot and S/R levels shown.
with pivots i would be careful, there is nothing in the manuall.
yes, costas is using them successfully.
i am not using them, i rather use fibos (but they are also not in the manual from clay).

better to stay as long with the manual, till u can stay on your own feet.
trading is like dancing, don't think and just listen to the music!
  • #2,349
  • Oct 28, 2010 5:03am Oct 28, 2010 5:03am
Quoting Survivor
Norg you seriously holding positions for -60 pips? Even i took that trade and cut losses above 1.58 RN. Think even my SL was way too much. For a dance i could have easily kept SL above 90. I would suggest using SL as expalined in manual..

Anyway having bad time here. two trades and 26 pips down. Cursing myself for allowing 20 pip SL. Next has to be winner or last one.

Edit: Here's what i do- I decide where will be my SL BEFORE taking the trade. If its too far i wait for price to come near or pass the trade. Then i place SL first. Then i initiate...
I am not that brave like some of you to follow the trades at the end of the previous M15 bar. I usually take my 10-15p and run with most of my trade. Sometimes, I will leave a small portion to run for more but with small SL and usually it is stopped out.
Case in point. This morning's M15 10 touch confluenced with H1 10. I got +9p since I took profit at the Weekly Pivot. Rest was stopped out by the sudden thrust upwards.
My suggestion to some of you is to try this partial profit method. Take profit at 10-15p for 85% of your trade and leave the rest according to the original rules. This way you get the quick profit and even if you are stopped out on the rest, all you need is 3-4 trades like that per day (easy to find 3-4 +10p opportunities with the Dance). Many times when the price reverses suddenly you have already taken your profit, so you have a winning trade where others have losses.
GREED is NOT GOOD
  • #2,350
  • Oct 28, 2010 5:03am Oct 28, 2010 5:03am
Quoting Norg
Yes, I do, I just can't control myself to cope with losing.
Anyway, I learned my mistake: forgot about weekly pivot at 1.5777; I was trading from my mobile phone, where there're no pivot and S/R levels shown.
Norg or anyobne else doing it. Here is my advice for whatever its worth. Give you account money to charity. Anyway you are going to blow it sooner or later. I may sound harsh and i maynot be a great trader like others here but i have enough experience in blowing accounts. Its real hard eaarned money. Please stop playing with it. Eclayf has shared a great system. Learn it. respect it and do well.

Edit: Sorry about wording Norg but i have blown accounts and know how it feels.
Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #2,351
  • Oct 28, 2010 5:25am Oct 28, 2010 5:25am
Folks , on 1HAUD/ USD chart , is it forming constrainment to 50 ?
  • #2,352
  • Oct 28, 2010 5:27am Oct 28, 2010 5:27am
Quoting kostas1
I am not that brave like some of you to follow the trades at the end of the previous M15 bar. I usually take my 10-15p and run with most of my trade. Sometimes, I will leave a small portion to run for more but with small SL and usually it is stopped out.
Case in point. This morning's M15 10 touch confluenced with H1 10. I got +9p since I took profit at the Weekly Pivot. Rest was stopped out by the sudden thrust upwards....
You are right there Kostas. I am very strict about SL. dont have any problem there. (This one i allowd 20 pips because i got fooled. Too many resistances were there so i thot it can turn anywhere before RN) Anyway will be careful with that. My real problem is getting greedy with trades. Guess i am yet to switch to intraday mode completely. Still looking for large profit as i did with daily charts. Am hesitating too much before taking profit. Your posts have had good effect and i have inmproved a lot. But still need to learn to take whatever i get very fast.
Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #2,353
  • Oct 28, 2010 5:40am Oct 28, 2010 5:40am
Norg, what risk do you use so u can allow yourself such huge loss ? i'm using 2.5% from the account, and i calculate how much volume to put on a trade... My risk is also large, but 2.5% is for a stop ot 10-15 pips, so a trade with 30 pip profit can carry out 2 losing trades... a 60 pips would be about 10% of my account, it is huge loss .... my weekly target is about that....

Always put your stop(at least in your mind) before you take the trade!

When i was making my first steps in trading, i thought that the greater the risk, the cautious you get. It has some true point in it !

P.S. EU did made a ping pong between the 1H 35 SMA and 50 EMA.
Better to lose opportunity, rather than capital !
  • #2,354
  • Oct 28, 2010 5:52am Oct 28, 2010 5:52am
Quoting baavgai
Folks , on 1HAUD/ USD chart , is it forming constrainment to 50 ?

Maybe, but it seems to me that the trade is already done after price touched the ema62.

http://i55.tinypic.com/nx3mz8.png
  • #2,355
  • Edited 6:13am Oct 28, 2010 6:00am | Edited 6:13am
Quoting baavgai
Folks , on 1HAUD/ USD chart , is it forming constrainment to 50 ?
I wont take it for two reasons:

1. The MAs are just not right to me,.... Some going up some down and some flat. I like it when all are moving is same direction even if slowly.

2. Price is just "hitting" higher MA. I like to see "wicks" through the higher MA. That confirms rejection above the MA. I wont take a constrainment unless i see wicks through it.

Notice that i said " i wont take it". I dont know if it is a good constrainment trade as per manual.

Edit: If i am not clear, just scroll your chart few candles back and see this constrainment. Notice how there is no cnflicting direction in Mas and the final candle wick through higher MA. I would have jumped at close of that candle.Hope that was of help in clarifying.

PS : Too many posts frm me it seems.
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Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #2,356
  • Oct 28, 2010 6:16am Oct 28, 2010 6:16am
Thanks a lot , great explaination !
  • #2,357
  • Oct 28, 2010 6:36am Oct 28, 2010 6:36am
Quoting kostas1
I am not that brave like some of you to follow the trades at the end of the previous M15 bar. I usually take my 10-15p and run with most of my trade...
Believe me, Kostas, if I could get a steady 10-15 pips just trading the touches on EU, I would! But, with a few exceptions, I haven't had good experiences with it so far. Perhaps I'm just not confident enough yet. But I have had plenty of decent 10-20 pip trades with MA's combined with PA bars (at least I would have if I didn't let them run to BE, but I've changed that starting today) .
  • #2,358
  • Edited 7:51am Oct 28, 2010 7:16am | Edited 7:51am
Quoting Greenhill
Believe me, Kostas, if I could get a steady 10-15 pips just trading the touches on EU, I would! But, with a few exceptions, I haven't had good experiences with it so far. Perhaps I'm just not confident enough yet. But I have had plenty of decent 10-20 pip trades with MA's combined with PA bars (at least I would have if I didn't let them run to BE, but I've changed that starting today) .
I am also struggling with touch trades. The problem with them is the quick response they need. One certainly needs some experience for being successful there. Here is what has worked for me and might work for others too.

 

  1. Concentrate on constrainment trades. Are you sure in manual Clay does not reccommend trading the higher TF constrainments, only the touches? I really need to read the manual many more times. Anyway I have found constrainments to be easy to spot, almost fail proof and giving good profit- just look at previous example I posted. Best thing is you don’t have to take them fast. You can analyze everything carefully and then take it (that’s a big advantage for newbies). I ignored touch trades completely till I became comfortable with constrainment trades. Now I am learning touch trades and making constrainment trades pay the tution fee. (Unluckily today market is refusing to pay for my learning- am down on touch trades and still waiting for a good constrainment , Anyway basic idea is master one or two trades before learning others so that your account doesnt bleed. Even rejection bars after turning of 10EMA has been a money spinner for me. These trades are in my earlier posts)
  2. With your target you won’t need to learn touch trades at all… There are plenty of constrainment trades especially in 5M or if you can switch to slow movers like AUD, CAD etc
  3. When, if at all, you want to take touch trades, start by looking at price rejection instead of just touch. By rejection, I mean zoom to 5M or 1M chart and see some bearishness before selling on 15M touch.This loses some pips but gives more confidence. And you know your Sl is that rejection candle high or low.And DONT voilate any touch trade rule else it will hurt your. Higher Mas converging, Steep Mas, Two bars- All rules must be met. FInally, dont forget Touch trades on higher time frame charts. They form slowly so you have more time to think. Again dont jump at touch. Watch 15M for price action.
  4. Only problem I have faced with constrainment trade is – waiting. You have to be really patient. Other than that they are alone good enough to take care of your targets.

PS: This thread has been of such great help to me that I feel like stealing if I don’t contribute in whatever small measure I can. That’s why so many posts. Hope this doesn’t deter newcomers as the system is well documented and posted on first page itself.

Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
  • #2,359
  • Oct 28, 2010 8:23am Oct 28, 2010 8:23am
I've deleted the post where I said the manual says to trade only touches on higher TF's and not constrainments. I misunderstood a section of the manual.
  • #2,360
  • Oct 28, 2010 8:28am Oct 28, 2010 8:28am
Greenhill here is what i mean. I waited with loss from touch trades and weary eyes for long time and finally! Finally market took mercy on me and am now only marginally 4-5 pips down in tution fess . Guess would take that honourably and close down for today.

The trade came as not very good constrainment in 15M But rejection bars in 4h and 1h and that final huge rejection in 15 gave me go signal. And looks like its a huge potential for further runup though i have decided to cover- I was worried about too much support down there.
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Making money is easy- Just dont take losing trades
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