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  • #9,121
  • Sep 29, 2010 9:49am Sep 29, 2010 9:49am
Quoting SkyzerFX
Yeah, man, I might have to stop trading in 15 days. It's impossible to

trade under those conditions. I have some orders open for weeks

and others trading hourly, what now? I have to close 1st trade in

order first and lose money to satisfy Jerks from FIFO?

And that kind of people are receiving hefty salary checks from American

taxpayers (while downloading Porn on .Gov computers),

which their screw left and right.

Do you live in Russia but have American accounts?
sorry to be so nosy
  • #9,122
  • Sep 29, 2010 10:03am Sep 29, 2010 10:03am
Quoting sanyhuis
You're right, Glenn. They are not allowed, but I'm sure there are brokers who will take them anyway. Don't you think? The burden is on the residents shoulders, not the brokers, unless they have made the decision to cooperate.
Hello All,

Hope you don't mind a comment from a newbie here. What Franks-Dodd really did was authorize, cause, or force (depending on who is telling the story) the CFTC to become much more involved in regulating the Spot FX market here in the USA. Effective October 18, 2010 no US trader may hold a forex account with a broker that is outside of the USA UNLESS that broker elects to go with licensing and membership hoops of the CFTC and NFA and agrees to hold any US trader to the limits required, such as FIFO, 50:1 leverage, etc. To put teeth into the bill, any US trader reporting activity to the IRS come tax time will be penalized for having this "offshore" account. Of course, according to Franks-Dodd, this will "protect" the US trader from the "unsafe" practices of those brokers not under CFTC and NFA control. There are many US traders that either opened accounts in other countries when the first notice of proposed rule making hit the streets last February. Some went so far as to create foreign entities (read offshore companies) so that US ownership was not clearly evident should the bill pass. The way it looks now, any of these attempts to sidestep the new regulations will end up being costly. I've spent more than a few years in and around compliance and my take is that, for now, US traders have little safe choice but to follow the regulations as they now are. In my opinion, and I stress that this is an opinion only, the names of the two regulatory bodies speaks volumes as to why these regulations have come about. Both are long standing Futures market watch dogs. The futures markets in NYC and Chicago have been seeing their market share decrease and the spot forex market boom. It appears that the need to control US-based money from going elsewhere coupled with a desire to slow or stop the spot forex market growth was the real reason for these new restrictions. Cheers, All
  • #9,123
  • Sep 29, 2010 11:13am Sep 29, 2010 11:13am
Quoting dryclean
Do you live in Russia but have American accounts?
sorry to be so nosy
Yeah, have to move now..
Viewer Discretion Advised: Shall we shag now or should we shag later? :-)
  • #9,124
  • Sep 29, 2010 11:24am Sep 29, 2010 11:24am
Quoting dryclean
FIFO rule is even worse especially with the Simple GU and Advance
Like last night it wanted to close a trade but had to wait for first one to go to profit before others would close. FIFO I just don't get it

I moved my fxdd to fxdd malta and my alpari us to uk I hope they don't make me move back . . . b@st@rds

Barry Frank and Dodd should be in jail they are the ones who caused most of the financial problems here anyway. Dodd is retiring Frank will probably get re-elected as the lemmings will put him back in. This country is F-d for now until...
Come November 2, I think. People have had it!!!
  • #9,125
  • Sep 29, 2010 11:29am Sep 29, 2010 11:29am
Quoting Islandsailor
It appears that the need to control US-based money from going elsewhere coupled with a desire to slow or stop the spot forex market growth was the real reason for these new restrictions. Cheers, All
Thanks, good point, to go further on this could this be due to the fact (and just

in time ) to some extend protect falling US Dollar.? So less people

could escape to be robbed by US FED.? Anyways for many people

Forex is the only opportunity to have any source of income.
Viewer Discretion Advised: Shall we shag now or should we shag later? :-)
  • #9,126
  • Sep 29, 2010 11:32am Sep 29, 2010 11:32am
Quoting Islandsailor
Hello All,

Hope you don't mind a comment from a newbie here....
Nice analysis.
I also smell taxing of forex gains coming. Certainly all the governments of the world would love to be able to clearly identify forex gains so they can tax tax tax.. like they do with equities, dividends,etc.
So first back the forex trader into a corner and then tax, tax, tax.
Stick em up this is hold up... For your protection of course.
As if figuring out how to squeeze a little something out of the markets isn't difficult enough, now we have help and protection from big brother...
This will make trading with an ea especially difficult.
Maybe with piptician on the case it can be done.
  • #9,127
  • Sep 29, 2010 11:39am Sep 29, 2010 11:39am
Quoting jiva34
Nice analysis.
I also smell taxing of forex gains coming. Certainly all the governments of the world would love to be able to clearly identify forex gains so they can tax tax tax.. like they do with equities, dividends,etc.
So first back the forex trader into a corner and then tax, tax, tax.
Stick em up this is hold up......

Forex gains are already taxable in the US. They have been for some time. The IRS treats them in the same way that they treat futures contracts. It is a mixture of long term and short term capital gains tax. It works out to about a 25% tax rate, if I remember correctly.

Cheers
  • #9,128
  • Sep 29, 2010 11:44am Sep 29, 2010 11:44am
Quoting jiva34
I also smell taxing of forex gains coming. Certainly all the governments of the world would love to be able to clearly identify forex gains so they can tax tax tax..
Yes and as usual, if you lose, then it's your problem, but if you gain,

Uncle Sam wants his share.
Viewer Discretion Advised: Shall we shag now or should we shag later? :-)
  • #9,129
  • Sep 29, 2010 11:49am Sep 29, 2010 11:49am
Quoting SkyzerFX
Thanks, good point, to go further on this could this be due to the fact (and just

in time ) to some extend protect falling US Dollar.? So less people

could escape to be robbed by US FED.? Anyways for many people

Forex is the only opportunity to have any source of income.

Sky, I suppose it could be. However, based upon the known attitudes of those who sponsored this bill and pushed to get it through, their common theme has been to control the money and keep it here at home. Franks has always been equally upset with any "offshore" interests that Americans might have. Instead of being offshore financial centers, the are called "tax havens" which is supposed to change the attitudes of the public. Offshore=Tax evaders=crooks. Oddly, the US depends on offshore investment into the US just to float its huge debt. So, I guess if money is coming IN ... that's okay. If money is going OUT, then it's a sin!
  • #9,130
  • Sep 29, 2010 11:53am Sep 29, 2010 11:53am
Hate to turn this into a political discussion but.......

This Govt constantly makes the wrong moves. They drive away manufacturing they burden business with heavy regulations and taxes so as not to compete globally. Spend money like its water

Then screw around with FX I finally started to make a good 2nd income now they want to f that up too. They do things to screw themselves out of tax dollars.... Bring back Calvin Coolidge

WAIT TILL NOV 2
the only power we have
  • #9,131
  • Sep 29, 2010 12:01pm Sep 29, 2010 12:01pm
Quoting Islandsailor
Forex gains are already taxable in the US. They have been for some time. The IRS treats them in the same way that they treat futures contracts. It is a mixture of long term and short term capital gains tax. It works out to about a 25% tax rate, if I remember correctly.

Cheers
Yes, on paper that is how it is taxed.
But in reality it is very difficult for the government to prove someone made profit in forex, how would they track down an account? It would be very difficult and time consuming to find if a US citizen had an account outside US since a broker outside US would not be required to report to the US government. Many traders just do not report their gains.
So, see where this is going?
No US citizen can have an account outside US. All US brokers will be required to report to IRS. That is coming. For US citizens protection of course.
What I don't understand is what's the deal with fifo?
We know what we have to lose by the straight-jacket they call fifo. But what do they have to gain? Just sadistic pleasure?
I don't mean to divert the thread. But this is a serious issue for all expert advisers.
  • #9,132
  • Sep 29, 2010 12:10pm Sep 29, 2010 12:10pm
Quoting jiva34
What I don't understand is what's the deal with fifo?
We know what we have to lose by the straight-jacket they call fifo. But what do they have to gain? Just sadistic pleasure?
I don't mean to divert the thread. But this is a serious issue for all expert advisers.
FIFO was demanded by the futures industry and their lobby spent a ton just on that issue alone, along with the lower leverage and the end of hedging with US-based brokers. It is the National FUTURES Association, after all. It is the COMMODITY FUTURES Trading Commission. Currently, no other country has even attempted to regulate forex to this extent. Although not the easiest of answers, for no-hedge and FIFO problems, a second account with your or another broker is about all you have available.

Cheers
  • #9,133
  • Sep 29, 2010 12:20pm Sep 29, 2010 12:20pm
Quoting jiva34
Yes, on paper that is how it is taxed.
But in reality it is very difficult for the government to prove someone made profit in forex, how would they track down an account? It would be very difficult and time consuming to find if a US citizen had an account outside US since a broker outside US would not be required to report to the US government. Many traders just do not report their gains.
So, see where this is going?
Yes, I do. But, first of all, US-based brokers have been reporting capital gains for account holders/clients for years. Some even issued Form 1099's. But, even if you can talk a non-US broker into keeping your account open and alive, where you will end up back on the Government (read IRS) radar is when you bring the money home. Wire transfers, check, whatever .... it all runs through the banking system. If they look, it won't take long to determine the "lawbreaker". And, yeah, it feels a lot like "big brother" to me, too.

My deepest apologies for getting off subject on this thread. Seems like a great EA and a good group. Nice work by Geoff and the others who contributed to all of this.

Cheers
  • #9,134
  • Sep 29, 2010 1:18pm Sep 29, 2010 1:18pm
Thanks to Geoff (and others) for letting this discussion run its course.
  • #9,135
  • Edited 2:06pm Sep 29, 2010 1:54pm | Edited 2:06pm
-
Quoting Islandsailor
Yes, I do. But, first of all, US-based brokers have been reporting capital gains for account holders/clients for years. Some even issued Form 1099's. But, even if you can talk a non-US broker into keeping your account open and alive, where you will end up back on the Government (read IRS) radar is when you bring the money home. Wire transfers, check, whatever .... it all runs through the banking system. If they look, it won't take long to determine the "lawbreaker". And, yeah, it feels a lot like "big brother" to me, too.
Cheers
I don't think it that though.. Even though Swiss was denying US

residents to have an accounts, just to get off the trouble. Nobody

can close offshore.. Never. And nobody will look into some pennies like

$5k-$10k transfers. Cash maybe a problem, but how you can denied

wire to another Country? This is an absurd. Law breaker? Interesting,

Stalin is dead in case you forgot. US full of Immigrants, you cannot possibly keep all money inside USA.

Many immigrants wiring money back

to their Countries on Monthly bases.

Did you read like 2 days ago story about Saudi guy wired through

US Banks almost $1 Trillion Dollars? Where was that reporting and stuff?

Sums like $10-$20k, who care about that spare change of ordinary guys.

It's your money, if you don't stole it, you can wire any amount anytime, anywhere - no problems. IMHO

P.S:

Personally I think nothing wrong to keep our team toghether (while EA only trades near day close)

by discussing some other topic related to Forex, cause this issue, which we touched today is important

and doesn't happen every day.
Viewer Discretion Advised: Shall we shag now or should we shag later? :-)
  • #9,136
  • Sep 29, 2010 2:32pm Sep 29, 2010 2:32pm
Quoting SkyzerFX
-

I don't think it that though.. Even though Swiss was denying US

residents to have an accounts, just to get off the trouble. Nobody

can close offshore.. Never. And nobody will look into some pennies like

$5k-$10k transfers. Cash maybe a problem, but how you can denied

wire to another Country? This is an absurd. Law breaker? Interesting,

Stalin is dead in case you forgot. US full of Immigrants, you cannot possibly keep all money inside USA.

Many immigrants wiring money back

to their Countries on Monthly bases.

Did you read like 2 days...
  • #9,137
  • Sep 29, 2010 5:25pm Sep 29, 2010 5:25pm
Quoting SkyzerFX
-

I don't think it that though.. Even though Swiss was denying US

residents to have an accounts, just to get off the trouble. Nobody

can close offshore.. Never. And nobody will look into some pennies like

$5k-$10k transfers. Cash maybe a problem, but how you can denied

wire to another Country? This is an absurd. Law breaker? Interesting,

Stalin is dead in case you forgot. US full of Immigrants, you cannot possibly keep all money inside USA.

Many immigrants wiring money back

to their Countries on Monthly bases.

Did you read like 2 days...

Sky
You are
definitely right.


Mac.
  • #9,138
  • Sep 29, 2010 5:39pm Sep 29, 2010 5:39pm
Looks like a trade today?
  • #9,139
  • Sep 29, 2010 6:07pm Sep 29, 2010 6:07pm
Quoting MacMG
Sky
You are
definitely right.


Mac.

Thanks, guys, For today I got

2 Errors UP (both SMA) and 2 thumbs up and 1 Red down

Fractals doesn't agree? Let's wait a bit more
Viewer Discretion Advised: Shall we shag now or should we shag later? :-)
  • #9,140
  • Sep 29, 2010 6:17pm Sep 29, 2010 6:17pm
Long trades just triggered FXDD live and demo
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