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Stop fooling yourself; There is no system

  • #321
  • Sep 27, 2010 5:35am Sep 27, 2010 5:35am
Quoting spekitox
Don't really matter what we call it as long as it's a positive sum game.
Thats the one - Whatever you wanna call it won't change it in the slightest .. Well maybe in the mindset but the sky will always be blue.

might stick to the music thread I think.

hm - whats a band that begins with F?
Time hides Nothing
  • #322
  • Sep 27, 2010 8:01am Sep 27, 2010 8:01am
Quoting CindyXXXX
It implies no control over an outcome when a trader has ultimate control of an outcome
How did you come to this conclusion? When we put on a trade, one of three things can happen. A close for a profit, a close for a loss, or a close at breakeven. How can I control the outcome?
  • #323
  • Sep 27, 2010 8:07am Sep 27, 2010 8:07am
This forum is a true negative sum game lol.
  • #324
  • Edited 8:20am Sep 27, 2010 8:09am | Edited 8:20am
So then isn't life a bit of a gamble....

Fact of the matter, if you are successful and profitable at trading for long enough time, you know what you're doing, it cannot be a fluke. therefor, you are not gambling in what we all mean when we think "gambling" by getting lucky on an uncertain outcome. You have devised ways to find opportunities to capitalize on inefficiencies while minimizing your risk and managing an investment for profit.

If you are just throwing on a coin toss trade, you're 100% gambling. I dont give a crap if the hour/day/week/year is up on whatever market you're trading or you're telling me "I know how to manage it well" and only risking a certain amount of capital.

This game is a lot more then just MM, if thats all you got, you're still gambling.
  • #325
  • Sep 27, 2010 8:11am Sep 27, 2010 8:11am
Quoting Dopey
How did you come to this conclusion? When we put on a trade, one of three things can happen. A close for a profit, a close for a loss, or a close at breakeven. How can I control the outcome?
I just mean you can control how much you win or how much you lose or how much you risk. You dont even have to trade. You control how much you seek to learn or how much you don't - know ones forcing you to trade in between.

It might turn into one of "those" annoying arguments here so I will just note that what I said was perhaps poor choice of words but I hope you see my point.
Time hides Nothing
  • #326
  • Sep 27, 2010 8:13am Sep 27, 2010 8:13am
Quoting Dopey
How did you come to this conclusion? When we put on a trade, one of three things can happen. A close for a profit, a close for a loss, or a close at breakeven. How can I control the outcome?

I control my out come by aggresively monitoring and trading the account and using as much info as realistically possible, being S10 charts.

You can't do anything to change the out come, but if the price starts moving the wrong way you can exit.

Thus reducing the gambling and hopefully making someone else pay my wages by loosing, hopefully from the hands of some wall street trader not another retail person.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #327
  • Sep 27, 2010 8:18am Sep 27, 2010 8:18am
Quoting Monroe
So then isn't life a bit of a gamble....
Enter Signature
  • #328
  • Sep 27, 2010 8:19am Sep 27, 2010 8:19am
and also, isn't life a system itself?

Enter Signature
  • #329
  • Sep 27, 2010 8:20am Sep 27, 2010 8:20am
Quoting vosterfxandy
and also, isn't life a system itself?

wow we';re getting deep now

I wonder... What is the meaning of it all
Time hides Nothing
  • #330
  • Sep 27, 2010 8:22am Sep 27, 2010 8:22am
Quoting Monroe
So then isn't life a bit of a gamble....

Fact of the matter, if you are successful and profitable at trading for long enough time, you know what you're doing, it cannot be a fluke. therefor, you are not gambling in what we all mean when we think "gambling" by getting lucky on an uncertain outcome. You have devised ways to find opportunities to capitalize on inefficiencies while minimizing your risk and managing an investment for profit.

If you are just throwing on a coin toss trade, you're 100% gambling. I dont give a crap if the hour/day/week/year...
Thank you this is what I was trying to say. But most here asume just because theres a risk of loss then its classified a gamble.
Time hides Nothing
  • #331
  • Sep 27, 2010 8:24am Sep 27, 2010 8:24am
Quoting CindyXXXX
Thank you this is what I was trying to say. But most here asume just because theres a risk of loss then its classified a gamble.
yea I don't know it seriously just depends on what your definition of gamble is right?

I'd say just because your risking something, doesn't mean you're gambling.
  • #332
  • Sep 27, 2010 8:31am Sep 27, 2010 8:31am
Quoting CindyXXXX
wow we';re getting deep now

I wonder... What is the meaning of it all
i know, this is too deep man. i don't want to view my body as some sort of muddled up mql code.

i bet we'd find some mql in our dna as well.

shit, i better stop!
Enter Signature
  • #333
  • Sep 27, 2010 8:38am Sep 27, 2010 8:38am
Hey Aussie! You are way too sensitive. No wonder you understood what SwissRaj was on about. It's gambling. Get over it. There is no shame attached to gambling - well not for me anyway.

The underarm bowl wasn't really bowling either but it was considered to be a form of bowling.

Maybe you prefer the word "speculation".

Investopedia explains Speculation
Speculation should not be considered purely a form of gambling, as speculators do make an informed decision before choosing to acquire the additional risks. Additionally, speculation cannot be categorized as a traditional investment because the acquired risk is higher than average.

So it's not purely gambling but it's still gambling. What a breakthrough.
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Nothing worth having is easy.
  • #334
  • Sep 27, 2010 8:44am Sep 27, 2010 8:44am
Quoting Patience
Hey Aussie! You are way too sensitive. No wonder you understood what SwissRaj was on about. It's gambling. Get over it. There is no shame attached to gambling - well not for me anyway.

The underarm bowl wasn't really bowling either but it was considered to be a form of bowling.

Maybe you prefer the word "speculation".

Investopedia explains Speculation
Speculation should not be considered purely a form of gambling, as speculators do make an informed decision before choosing to acquire the additional risks. Additionally,...
HAHA Patience - Hm being from Tonga I'm no sure who you were refering to . I'm not sensative, just patianate about my art. I'm sorry I will never call it gambling. You get over it . Patience, on this, I'm affaid we will never agree but like Spekitox it doesnt matter what you call it we all want the same thing I guess... But I respect your opinion and do see where you're coming from.

Hey don't bring Swiss raj into this!
Time hides Nothing
  • #335
  • Sep 27, 2010 9:00am Sep 27, 2010 9:00am
Quoting Vlad
And there is no one who knows how to trade. If there was, W. Buffet would be his butler and Bill Gates his foot chair. 5% per month, which many "traders" find to be laughable, make 1 trillion dollars out of $50 in less than 40 years. Unless you are a fat rat from a Federal reserve with insider's info, trading is glorified gambling no more and no less. Only ones who win are those who are lucky and quit early. Sorry.



.....................................................................
" How to be Green and Ruin your Planet at the same time"
www.thesickearth.blogspot.com...
Um once you have compounded far enough you cant just open as many lots as you want - first you need liquidity which will be different in every situation, its a whole different game.
Time hides Nothing
  • #336
  • Sep 27, 2010 9:11am Sep 27, 2010 9:11am
Quoting CindyXXXX
HAHA Patience - Hm being from Tonga I'm no sure who you were refering to . I'm not sensative, just patianate about my art. I'm sorry I will never call it gambling. You get over it . Patience, on this, I'm affaid we will never agree but like Spekitox it doesnt matter what you call it we all want the same thing I guess... But I respect your opinion and do see where you're coming from.

Hey don't bring Swiss raj into this!
Well then horse racing shouldn't be considered gambling. You can make an informed decision on the horse's recent form, how many races it has won, what track conditions the horse likes, what the track conditions actually are on the day etc and you can even go and check the horse out before the race .....

But I know what you mean. When I first became interested in forex a very clever man told me it was gambling and I thought "no, it isn't, it's not like shoving $200 down the pokie machine's slot never to be seen again". With forex, with enough patience and correct money management, an idea of technicals and fundies, losing trades don't always need to be closed in loss.

But it's still gambling, whichever way you look at it I thought Tonga was a joke ..... isn't it?
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Nothing worth having is easy.
  • #337
  • Sep 27, 2010 9:15am Sep 27, 2010 9:15am
Hey Patience, would it be called gambling to this very "clever man" or you, if you can find riskless opportunities? arbing per se...
  • #338
  • Sep 27, 2010 9:19am Sep 27, 2010 9:19am
Quoting Monroe
Hey Patience, would it be called gambling to this very "clever man" or you, if you can find riskless opportunities? arbing per se...
That brings up another topic, IMO.

Because say there was an amazing trader who was awesome and never lost. Just a machine. He is risking money to make money but has a win rate of 100%.

But would you bet your house and spouse on the next trade? No, because there is still a tiny element of risk of the next trade, no matter how certain he is of the outcome.

When the outcome is preset, however, which is the point of arbing.. it's totally different. There's nothing that can go wrong once it has began.
  • #339
  • Sep 27, 2010 9:21am Sep 27, 2010 9:21am
Quoting Sim
That brings up another topic, IMO.
Because say there was an amazing trader who was awesome and never lost. Just a machine. He is risking money to make money but has a win rate of 100%.

But would you bet your house and spouse on the next trade? No, because there is still a tiny element of risk of the next trade, no matter how certain he is of the outcome, it would be gambling.

When the outcome is preset, however, which is the point of arbing.. it's totally different. There's nothing that can go wrong once it has began. In fact the point of arbing is using as much money as possible so that the tiny relative ROI is maximised as much as possible.
  • #340
  • Sep 27, 2010 9:22am Sep 27, 2010 9:22am
Quoting Patience
Well then horse racing shouldn't be considered gambling. You can make an informed decision on the horse's recent form, how many races it has won, what track conditions the horse likes, what the track conditions actually are on the day etc and you can even go and check the horse out before the race .....

But I know what you mean. When I first became interested in forex a very clever man told me it was gambling and I thought "no, it isn't, it's not like shoving $200 down the pokie machine's slot never to be seen again". With forex, with enough...

If all of the above works then and you can use it then you become a professional horse picker not a gambler, I actually know someone who makes good money on the horses each year, makes a living off it the hard part is finding a bookie which will take his bets they keep banning him.

Everytime I place a gamble trade, I LOSE!!! most of my other trades profit.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
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