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Sonic R. System

  • #13,901
  • Jul 28, 2010 5:28pm Jul 28, 2010 5:28pm
Quoting KumoDragon
Since we are on the subject I would like to know:

1. Are these the only two price action bars we look for on higher Timframes.

2. Does the price action bar have to be the present bar or can it be a couple back. For instance if I see a pin bar forming on 4h, do I only then go looking for the 15M set up. OR, if there was a pin bar on 4H a few bars back is it still good.

I ask this because:


[size=3][font=TrebuchetMS]

[size=3]"Sonic R is basically trading in Hammer and Bullish engulfing bars D1 TF/H4 TF by

...
KumoDragon, lets start with your #4...

"4. What is the specific definition of pin bar, hammer, engulfing bar, within the realm of the sonic r method."

You see the problem, don't you? It is the word "specific." Sonicdeejay has given us "essence", a diamond as it were. Now, the more facets that are engineered onto the diamond, the more it sparkles. But it takes a lot of time. And how many facets can a trader deal with before a simple method becomes anything but! And how many parameters of each facet can any one person/trader even remember?!!!!

For example, does it make any difference if an H4 hammer is the last completed candle, or several back? Geez! If you want to know the answer to that, then look at the darned M15 and see if the setup already occurred! And, if the hammer is several candles back, and if a SonicR setup and run already occurred, does that mean their can't be another, and another, and another? For God's sake man! At some point you have to take over control of your own trading, based on essence, and start making decisions yourself based on your 'feel' about PA, rather than expecting every move you make to be predefined by 'instructions'!

....'cause their ain't, nor ever will be, such a method.

BTW, others have put together various "manuals", but they all ran into the same problem. They tried to surgically excise every innuendo it would be possible to run up against in trading SonicR. Their work became unuseable. You can't replace the art of reading PA with instructions! But thru abiding by the essence of SonicR, pure and unfettered with indicators and fluf, you will eventually develop that all important skill, or art, of reading PA. Ddaytrader will testify to that, I am sure! He has been one of the most successful with SonicR and only uses candlesticks and the Dragon, and checks his placement of TPs against broker pivots from time to time.
  • #13,902
  • Jul 28, 2010 6:05pm Jul 28, 2010 6:05pm
Quoting traderathome
KumoDragon, lets start with your #4...

"4. What is the specific definition of pin bar, hammer, engulfing bar, within the realm of the sonic r method."

You see the problem, don't you? It is the word "specific." Sonicdeejay has given us "essence", a diamond as it were. Now, the more facets that are engineered onto the diamond, the more it sparkles. But it takes a lot of time. And how many facets can a trader deal with before a simple method becomes anything but! And how many parameters of each facet can any one person/trader even remember?!!!!...
Well, I thought that was rather rude.

I was simply asking for the specific definitions of the price action bars. And when they were considered actionable. If you didn't know the answer you simply should have said so.

Is a doji a pin bar? how long does the whick of a hammer have to be? how long should the whick of a pin bar be to be considered a pin bar? do the bars on either side of a price action bar have to be in specific formation relative to it, IE both higher or lower................... All, IMO, important details. Details that someone that supposedly knows how to read price action would know, and possibly share insite.

This: "You can't replace the art of reading PA with instructions! But thru abiding by the essence of SonicR, pure and unfettered with indicators and fluf, you will eventually develop that all important skill, or art, of reading PA. " Is akin to other nonesense I've read instructing traders to stare at charts endlessly and get a, "feel"

I'm not a pro but I'm not a noob either I've been trading live nearly every day for the past 3 years. I can safely say that I think anyone EVER getting a, "feel," for price action and what is going to happen next is nonsense. And anyone that thinks they have a feel is self deluded.
If it were possible to get a, "feel," then at some point you wouldn't even need price action bar confirmation or waves to try and pinpoint a good entry. You'd just, "feel," the next move and get in.

This is why I asked for specific detailed instructions about priceaction bars and how to use them.

If they are that important then there are important reciteable details about them.

P.S. if there is anyone else besides traderathome that has some answers to my questions I would greatly appreciate it.
  • #13,903
  • Jul 28, 2010 6:07pm Jul 28, 2010 6:07pm
I will give you some of my experience trading this method that I find an absolute jewel. Not to say that I am an expert at it, quite the contrary, I am still learning it. Now to make something clear on price action bars (Pin bars, inside bars, outside bars, DBHLC (DOUBLE HIGH/LOWER CLOSE) …etc… or what have you), they simply do not work for me. God knows I spent months learning them and applying them. Another reason I do not give them any importance is because data feed is very different from one broker to the next. So what you could see as a pin bar to me could only seem as a candle with a longer wick, and yet another person could get something completely different still. This is the problem with forex, but I don’t let it bother me.
The way I trade sonic’s method is by taking the whole strategy to a higher TF like 4H and keeping a look out for price approaching the dragon. Once that happens I drop down to the 15min TF and wait for a setup confirming my bias. Now as many of the seniors have already mentioned, sonicr is not full proof. Looking for S&R areas is also key because it can get you into a trade earlier. I prefer making 100pips @ 70% odds rather than making 140pips @ 45% odds. But hey that is me…
In the charts you will see what I mean by looking at the 4H TF and then dropping down.
Anyway I hope this helps
Note: I hope Sonic will not scold me for fitting his strategy to my personality…

Note II: I could be completely off with all this, I hope someone of the seniors will tell me in case I am.
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  • #13,904
  • Jul 28, 2010 6:41pm Jul 28, 2010 6:41pm
Quoting Chantalb
I will give you some of my experience trading this method that I find an absolute jewel. Not to say that I am an expert at it, quite the contrary, I am still learning it. Now to make something clear on price action bars (Pin bars, inside bars, outside bars, [font=Arial]DBHLC (DOUBLE HIGH/LOWER CLOSE) …etc… or what have you), they simply do not work for me. God knows I spent months learning them and applying them. Another reason I do not give them any importance...
Thank you very much that is the kind of incite I was talking about. That is what I was thinking about price action bars and such, what I think is one someone else might not, and a slightly different feed could give a different view. Which is also why I wanted specific descriptions about the paramaters a PA bar should fall into.

Myself I've never put much stock in candlestick pattern trading for that very reason. This is why I like sonic and using waves and trend bias.
  • #13,905
  • Jul 28, 2010 8:25pm Jul 28, 2010 8:25pm
USDCHF Long Trade Initated:

The same H4 hammer candle that caused me to close the short trade, is now the basis for entering the long trade.

After PA made EP above the Dragon, I put in buy order at quarter number to see if I could catch a lower entry in the event of a pullback. The buy order price was hit.

The SL is generous, a sign of the times. The TP is very tentative, also a sign of the times.

What is not right about the trade is that we are not yet into approved trading hours. I recognize that and am keeping watch. It is also part of the reason for a close in TP.
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  • #13,906
  • Edited 9:16pm Jul 28, 2010 8:54pm | Edited 9:16pm
Quoting KumoDragon
Well, I thought that was rather rude.

I was simply asking for the specific definitions of the price action bars. And when they were considered actionable. If you didn't know the answer you simply should have said so.

Is a doji a pin bar? how long does the whick of a hammer have to be? how long should the whick of a pin bar be to be considered a pin bar? do the bars on either side of a price action bar have to be in specific formation relative to it, IE both higher or lower................... All, IMO, important details. Details that someone...
KumoDragon, I apologize for sounding rude. It is just that "specifics detailing specifics" don't accomplish the outcome in this business. They are no more than an added facade, complicating things and worthless since at any time the price can move in either direction regardless of all that came before. And yes, learning the art of interpreting PA waves and the recognition of a few significant candle configurations appearing on larger TF charts can be as effective, or more so, than all the indicators in the world, and specifics piled upon specifics.

Things can change in an instant. And so, a clean and pure and simple approach leaves ones mind clear and free to see what is happening and respond. PA has a mind of its own. It is the mind of those that determine where price is going. So PA has no sincere regard for technicals, nor specifics. The simplicity of SonicR and the pureness of learning to focus on PA are its strengths in a world where every Tom, Dick and Harry has a "method" for sale, complete with a corral of proprietary technicals....none of which are any better, for all their specifics, than SonicR.

Ok. I will apologize once again for any rudeness,.....none was intended,.....and get down off the soap box.
  • #13,907
  • Edited 10:20pm Jul 28, 2010 9:51pm | Edited 10:20pm
EJ:

H4 shows PA at support area after falling from grace on an "engulfing" candle. If PA breaks support, it could be either a SonicR re-entry, or possibly a new SonicR short setup on the M15. The new setup could occur if PA is first driven back up on a short opening move by the market movers, a move sufficient to create a new EP South on the return down move.
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  • #13,908
  • Jul 29, 2010 1:15am Jul 29, 2010 1:15am
Quoting traderathome
EJ:

H4 shows PA at support area after falling from grace on an "engulfing" candle. If PA breaks support, it could be either a SonicR re-entry, or possibly a new SonicR short setup on the M15. The new setup could occur if PA is first driven back up on a short opening move by the market movers, a move sufficient to create a new EP South on the return down move.
Seems it hit a temp bottom which is acting as support for now..with the proof of stopping vol..(see white box)
Minor Higher Lows spotted...

Not a time for a short trade..may be a cautious long..

Sonic
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  • #13,909
  • Jul 29, 2010 7:07am Jul 29, 2010 7:07am
Quoting traderathome
USDCHF Long Trade Initated:

The same H4 hammer candle that caused me to close the short trade, is now the basis for entering the long trade.

After PA made EP above the Dragon, I put in buy order at quarter number to see if I could catch a lower entry in the event of a pullback. The buy order price was hit.

The SL is generous, a sign of the times. The TP is very tentative, also a sign of the times.

What is not right about the trade is that we are not yet into approved trading hours. I recognize that and am keeping watch. It is also part of...
USDCHF Long Trade Update:

Stopped out for a 26 pip loss overnight while I slept.
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  • #13,910
  • Jul 29, 2010 7:18am Jul 29, 2010 7:18am
Quoting sonicdeejay
Seems it hit a temp bottom which is acting as support for now..with the proof of stopping vol..(see white box)
Minor Higher Lows spotted...

Not a time for a short trade..may be a cautious long..

Sonic
Well, Sonic, I slept thur the 'cautious long', and too bad because it was good for 40 - 50 pips.

I half expected a move up. But still, the H4 is saying "down" as I read it. We now have EP South, so I am waiting to see if we get a break down thru it.

It is nice you are back. And with good insight, as always!
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  • #13,911
  • Jul 29, 2010 7:46am Jul 29, 2010 7:46am
Hi Sonic Et All...

This is a very simple interesting system with little stress...

Since you guys have already done most of the testing, i wont waste my time and start using it...

But i will use it only on the following pairs AUD/USD , AUD/JPY, NZD/USD, NZD/JPY

Reason : These pairs follow any trend religiously...

ie: If market says RISK they go up and if market says SAFE they go down...

Either-ways this system makes pips out of it by just following the direction

Q : Have any of you coded an EA for this ?

Thanks
  • #13,912
  • Edited 10:51am Jul 29, 2010 10:13am | Edited 10:51am
UJ Short Trade Initated:

No SL or target yet set.

Edit: SL and TP 1 per second chart. Since we should look to see if there is support for the trade on a longer TF, also attached Daily chart.
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  • #13,913
  • Jul 29, 2010 10:42am Jul 29, 2010 10:42am
oh that's how we do it,,,

at first, I thought we find the L-H-HL pattern in m15 and if it's above the dragon and other indicators confirm it, we open long... if the higher TF (H4) shows the trend is long also..

but actually the method is after H4 chart form an engulfing/pin bar/shooting star, then we prepare to open position in m15, is it true??

if it's the case i think it is better if my good comrades here upload the h4 chart as well when open a position (like @traderathome did recently)

as the H4 chart is important opener, i think we should empasize the tutorial in here...

i'm bit dumb and noob in this game, i'm sorry if my conclution is stupid
  • #13,914
  • Jul 29, 2010 10:57am Jul 29, 2010 10:57am
Sonic,

I have been through hundreds of pages on your thread - great stuff. But throughout the thread you have added and deleted indcators, ex. NVO

I looked on page one and that is not there. It maybe helpfull to all parties including yourself if they were all on the first page with "Updated Settings".

What time zone are you in? What sessions do you trade in? Are all of your trades placed on your thread in real time?

Your system gives me more confidence.

Thanks,

Keeper81

Tarheel Fan
  • #13,915
  • Jul 29, 2010 11:04am Jul 29, 2010 11:04am
Quoting traderathome
KumoDragon, I apologize for sounding rude. It is just that "specifics detailing specifics" don't accomplish the outcome in this business. They are no more than an added facade, complicating things and worthless since at any time the price can move in either direction regardless of all that came before. And yes, learning the art of interpreting PA waves and the recognition of a few significant candle configurations appearing on larger TF charts can be as effective, or more so, than all the indicators in the world, and specifics piled upon specifics....
Thank you very much I appreciate it.
  • #13,916
  • Jul 29, 2010 11:15am Jul 29, 2010 11:15am
Quoting KumoDragon
Thank you very much I appreciate it.
Thank you for your understanding. Sometimes I get too tired, or too hungry, or both......and become a bit brusque
  • #13,917
  • Jul 29, 2010 11:59am Jul 29, 2010 11:59am
Could someone please post the NVO indicator and settings for MT4 platform?

Thanks

Keeper81
  • #13,918
  • Jul 29, 2010 12:11pm Jul 29, 2010 12:11pm
Quoting keeper81
Could someone please post the NVO indicator and settings for MT4 platform?

Thanks

Keeper81
Try here:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=10577
  • #13,919
  • Jul 29, 2010 12:18pm Jul 29, 2010 12:18pm
Sonic thanks for the fast reply.

Did you see my post a couple up from here?

What time do you trade relative to EST?

Do you post most of your trades in real time?

Thanks,

Keeper81
  • #13,920
  • Jul 29, 2010 12:34pm Jul 29, 2010 12:34pm
GU:

Something to keep watch on, even though we are on the backside of approved trading hours.....

The last downside move was with very heavy and consistent trading interest. Price has just been pumped back up after creating a valid SonicR short trade EP South. There exists the proper HL sequence, too.

Every once in a while we get a late US session run. Today could be one of those days.

And since we should look to see if there is support for a trade on a larger TF, attached is the H4 chart.
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