Sonic R. System | Page 695 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Sonic R.evolution 95 replies

The System Behind the System, by Merlin Jeffries 16 replies

Old School Sonic System + Other Things 11 replies

Knife system, Vegas 4h system related questions. 4 replies

Would you trade this system? New system #2. 10 replies

Attachments: Sonic R. System
Exit Attachments

Sonic R. System

  • #13,881
  • Edited 1:39pm Jul 28, 2010 11:59am | Edited 1:39pm
USDCHF Short Trade Update:

PA reached TP1 and bounced. I am hopeful PA will come back down to re-test this support area, break thru it and go to TP2. The SL is lowered.

The US Unemployment Claims Release tomorrow may determine any next significant PA. Until then it could just be 'waiting' time.

Edit: Added second chart (H4). And now I am thinking this may be basing for a move higher. PA might not ever reach TP2. The question is will PA be driven down again to TP1, sort of a Double Bottom strike, before the start a more significant move up? I am strongly considering bailing out today with what profit I have.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: # 868.gif Size: 33 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: # 871.gif Size: 25 KB
  • #13,882
  • Edited 1:38pm Jul 28, 2010 12:05pm | Edited 1:38pm
GU Short Trade Update:

PA is going nowhere fast. But as with EU, the longer PA 'consolidates' at these highs the more 'overbought' it appears. The SL is raised to give the trade more breathing room.

The next significant PA may not occur until the US Unemplyment Claims Release tomorrow.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: # 869.gif Size: 30 KB
  • #13,883
  • Jul 28, 2010 12:10pm Jul 28, 2010 12:10pm
EU Short Trade Update:

This, now ancient trade, is still going nowhere. I am sitting on it with the expectancy of an eventual drop. Like with GU, the longer the price consolidates up here, the more overbought it appears. Also, I refer to the previously posted H4 and Monthly charts.

No target is set now for this trade, nor will there be until after movement begins.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: # 870.gif Size: 34 KB
  • #13,884
  • Jul 28, 2010 1:11pm Jul 28, 2010 1:11pm
USDCHF Short Trade Closed:

Not waiting to see if PA makes a second strike at TP1. Instead, closed with 20 pips profit.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: # 872.gif Size: 33 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: # 873.gif Size: 28 KB
  • #13,885
  • Edited 2:38pm Jul 28, 2010 1:30pm | Edited 2:38pm
EU and GU:

I am wondering if PA might pick up this late in the US session? Both pairs just had a drive down to what might be considered a local lower TL. Charts show this, and current EP areas for a new short trade. And both pairs are showing a pattern of lower H/Ls.

Are some outfits suddenly heavily shorting in advance of tomorrow's US Unemployment Claims Release? Is that why the prices suddenly dropped? Will prices be worked back up for more of the same later?

Lets see what the market decides.

Edit: Here is an afterthought. The market moving players might take PA below the local TLs shown, encouraging others to go short. Then, later and into tomorrow, they might do yet another pullup (whole number?) to run stops on those shorts. By now encouraging others to enter the market short, they create more potential liquidity for their own future shorts. Then later, using a quick pullup (running stops on the shorts of others), they get those new shorts belonging to others, liquidated. That new liquidity will be used to get their own new orders for shorts filled! In other words, these pairs might again pull up for better short entry next approved trading hours.

Still, ....let the market decide.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: # 874.gif Size: 28 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: # 875.gif Size: 35 KB
  • #13,886
  • Jul 28, 2010 1:33pm Jul 28, 2010 1:33pm
thanks T for the fast respond, I think i got it,,, maybe

however...

Quoting traderathome
The use of indicators, other than PA and the Dragon, are supposed to be used to help confirm, not predict. But except for the volume indys, they are all themselves based on price, and so in a way they are redundant to the actual PA itself.
how the NVO could help? it looks a bit random to me.. the period is set to 20 right?

Quoting traderathome
The focus should be on the PA Wave (a proper HL sequence), near the Dragon, during approved trading hours and with a supporting longer term (H4, Daily, etc.) chart.
how we define whether the longer term chart approve or not?
  • #13,887
  • Edited 1:59pm Jul 28, 2010 1:49pm | Edited 1:59pm
Quoting jret_seterek
thanks T for the fast respond, I think i got it,,, maybe

however...



how the NVO could help? it looks a bit random to me.. the period is set to 20 right?



how we define whether the longer term chart approve or not?
How can the NVO help? And what period is used? There are lots of posts on this, some even over the last week or so. You will pick it all up as you continue scanning and reading.

How is 'longer TF chart approval' defined? This is explained in Sonic's pdf and using H4 chart examples. Basically, it is looking for hammer and engulfing bars. Again, you will pick more of this up as you scan/read. More than once it has been suggested that supporting H4 charts be posted when trades are posted. If more people did this, then answering your question on this would be easier, as many examples would exist (hint to thread members, including myself!).
  • #13,888
  • Jul 28, 2010 2:37pm Jul 28, 2010 2:37pm
Quoting traderathome
How can the NVO help? And what period is used? There are lots of posts on this, some even over the last week or so. You will pick it all up as you continue scanning and reading.

How is 'longer TF chart approval' defined? This is explained in Sonic's pdf and using H4 chart examples. Basically, it is looking for hammer and engulfing bars. Again, you will pick more of this up as you scan/read. More than once it has been suggested that supporting H4 charts be posted when trades are posted. If more people did this, then answering your question on this...
I keep reading about this: "Basically, it is looking for hammer and engulfing bars. Again, you will pick more of this up as you scan/read. More than once it has been suggested that supporting H4 charts be posted when trades are posted."

And in some of your posts you inferred that when trading sonic you are supposed to also have some sort of price action confirming bar on the 4H.

Am I reading the same manual. My manual is V3 and only 21 pages. I read it every day for a refresher before any trades. I just read through it again and I dont see one line that hints at looking for a hammer/hangman on H4 in combination with the break on 15M?

All that was really said was try and trade with the larger time frame trend.

How would that even work, usually to act on bars you wait for them to close? If you saw a break and waited for 4H to close you'd miss the break.
  • #13,889
  • Jul 28, 2010 2:58pm Jul 28, 2010 2:58pm
Quoting KumoDragon
I keep reading about this: "Basically, it is looking for hammer and engulfing bars. Again, you will pick more of this up as you scan/read. More than once it has been suggested that supporting H4 charts be posted when trades are posted."

And in some of your posts you inferred that when trading sonic you are supposed to also have some sort of price action confirming bar on the 4H.

Am I reading the same manual. My manual is V3 and only 21 pages. I read it every day for a refresher before any trades. I just read through it again and I dont see...
To KumoDragon and all others,

In Sonic's very first post you will find this....

Check out about the essence of Sonic R HERE, find out why the Sonic R set ups have been profitable.

....which leads you to the attached pdf document! And the next to last sentence in the document reads....


In words, Sonic R is basically trading in Hammer and Bullish engulfing bars D1 TF/H4 TF by

looking for an entry M15 TF. That make Sonic R set up the highly profiable ones.


Seems pretty straightforward and simple, agreed? I think, if there is any problem here at all, people don't read enough, and reflect enough, before waging in with already answered questions!
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf Secret_of_Sonic_R[1].pdf   122 KB | 1,072 downloads
  • #13,890
  • Jul 28, 2010 3:20pm Jul 28, 2010 3:20pm
Quoting traderathome
To KumoDragon and all others,

In Sonic's very first post you will find this....

Check out about the essence of Sonic R HERE, find out why the Sonic R set ups have been profitable.

....which leads you to the attached pdf document! And the next to last sentence in the document reads....


[left][font=TrebuchetMS][size=3][font=TrebuchetMS][size=3]In words,...
No, I do not agree I dont think it's straightforward and simple at all.

If that is the case then the original manual should be updated. I think A LOT of people are doing what I am, just looking for a good 15M set up because the manual makes no mention of price action bars on 4H and up.

No where in the manual does it make mention of looking for patterns on higher time frames or even the other document.

Am I to understand that a 100% sonic set up should not be taken on the 15M without price action bars on at least the 4H?

Or is there two sonic setups? Shorterm on 15M only and ones with a higher time frame backup?

If it is that important why not have it in the actual manual? Instead of in a seperate document that is very easy to miss.

Also the documention and explanation about what we are supposed to be looking for on the higher time frames is sparse to say the least.

Basically all the document says: "

In the chart it will be hammer or Pin bar with a long wick
and it is one of lil sign of possible trend reversal. You can see an example on the D1 TF
chart below.

and, "

In words, Sonic R is basically trading in Hammer and Bullish engulfing bars D1 TF/H4 TF by

looking for an entry M15 TF. That make Sonic R set up the highly profiable ones"

It really doesn't say a whole lot about what we are supposed to be looking for in these bars.
  • #13,891
  • Edited 4:19pm Jul 28, 2010 4:02pm | Edited 4:19pm
Quoting KumoDragon
No, I do not agree I dont think it's straightforward and simple at all.

If that is the case then the original manual should be updated....
For me it is clear. On the first page:
3. Muliple TF confirmations

If I want to trade I must know how to confirm a trend, how to recognize a price action, how to use mentioned indicators, etc.

We can't drive a car without knowing all the traffic signs and rule of the road. Even if we get a very good buggy.

my trade UJ:
I just spent 4,5 hours in car and once I got to the hotel, switched my Laptop on and checked the charts....My SL was hit because (guess what) I shifted it too close! Again and again... I shifted SL exactly on the top of last pullback, without any room....Ouch!
Follow my trading on Twitter and FB: @pumlitch
  • #13,892
  • Edited 4:20pm Jul 28, 2010 4:03pm | Edited 4:20pm
Quoting KumoDragon
No, I do not agree I dont think it's straightforward and simple at all.

If that is the case then the original manual should be updated. I think A LOT of people are doing what I am, just looking for a good 15M set up because the manual makes no mention of price action bars on 4H and up.

No where in the manual does it make mention of looking for patterns on higher time frames or even the other document.

Am I to understand that a 100% sonic set up should not be taken on the 15M without price action bars on at least the 4H?...
KumoDragon, I give a lot of credit to Sonicdeejay for highlighting the essence of the SonicR method. And that pdf document is not hard to find. In FACT, it is the VERY FIRST item a new perosn is presented with to click on for an intro of SonicR! .....Yes! The very first item!!!!!

But not even Sonicdeejay can preclude people rushing thru the initials, eager to get started, and as a consequence.....

.....yeah, all the previously answered questions come rolling in.

Is there an EXACT answer to every facet of trading, to every facet of the SonicR method? Of course not! Sonic has presented a simple and pure method that works....if the trader adheres to its essence. If the trader obscures that essence with a bunch of indicator baggage, or fails to thoroughly read all the material presented in the first post, and the dozen or so follow-on posts, then.....well Sonic has done his part.

Can a trade be taken on the M15 without some supporting indicating from PA on a larger TF chart? Of course! But they are not the kind of SonicR trades Sonicdeejay refers to as being "the highly profitable ones." I personally can vouch for the truth of that, having made so many such inferior trades. But I, like you and everyone else, learn to learn! Such trades can be profitable, even highly profitable, but also riskier. Sometimes they are all the market is providing.

Sonicdeejay has presented what tends to be most profitable. We all make our own decisions as to what to use and what to compromise.
  • #13,893
  • Jul 28, 2010 4:07pm Jul 28, 2010 4:07pm
Quoting KumoDragon
No, I do not agree I dont think it's straightforward and simple at all.

If that is the case then the original manual should be updated. I think A LOT of people are doing what I am, just looking for a good 15M set up because the manual makes no mention of price action bars on 4H and up.

No where in the manual does it make mention of looking for patterns on higher time frames or even the other document.

Am I to understand that a 100% sonic set up should not be taken on the 15M without price action bars on at least the 4H?

[b]Or...
Hi KD,

There are two possible way to read that document. I personally don't do that, I just trade M15 with "wave", "S&R" and "NVO".

First point of view :
It's an essential object for trading sonicr ...

Second ... :
It's an additional confirmation for this method.


Let's talk about the first one :
You're so damn right that if it's nessecery, it should be in the original manual. It's not, and that's why it's not in there. As you see, not every good sonicr setup, is a hammer or any other bar formation on higher TFs.


And the second point of view :
I adhere to this believe that talking about bar analysis was just a confirmation about this method. It mentions that even people who are trading bars, they are trading waves too. because many of those bars are good sonicr entries on lower TFs.


In conclusion, forget about the bars and stick to sonicr waves. I work with bars too, but in completely different attitude. I don't mix them. I have two trading strategies, one Intraday (Geee ! this EU is going to be a intraweek !!) and another medium term.

Don't confuse confirmations with bones of a system. It's just when you see a pinbar (if you don't know this method, just skip it, it's not that important TO THIS SYSTEM) and you'd traded your wave, you can be more comfortable, because many other traders who trade bars will join you. That all.

After all, it was what I'd experienced. And it's working for me. When I'm trading m15 with waves, I just look at higher TFs for general outlook of PA. Nothing more.

Hope it helps

P.S. : Bravo KD ! you're the first to ask this ! And I believe sooner or later you'll master this market, because you don't easily believe and trust everything, unless you make something out of it yourself. Some levels of doubt is very useful in this business. Good job

Regards,
Basber
Trading methods are designed to put the odds in our favor, not predicting.
  • #13,894
  • Edited 4:40pm Jul 28, 2010 4:28pm | Edited 4:40pm
Quoting Basber
Hi KD,

There are two possible way to read that document. I personally don't do that, I just trade M15 with "wave", "S&R" and "NVO".

First point of view :
It's an essential object for trading sonicr ...

Second ... :
It's an additional confirmation for this method.


Let's talk about the first one :
You're so damn right that if it's nessecery, it should be in the original manual. It's not, and that's why it's not in there. As you see, not every good sonicr setup, is a hammer or any other bar formation on higher TFs.


And the second...
"You're so damn right that if it's nessecery, it should be in the original manual. It's not, and that's why it's not in there. As you see, not every good sonicr setup, is a hammer or any other bar formation on higher TFs." - Basber

Sonic never called it "necessary". He calls it "essence".

And Sonic never said there weren't other 'good' setups. In his "Secret of SonicR" document, he is talking about the essence of SonicR, and the "highly profitable ones."

Look at it this way. "Essence" means core, center, what is most defining or significant. A SonicR setup with a supporting H4 hammer or engulfing bar is in accord with the essence of the SonicR method, usually leading to a highly profitable trade. SonicR setups without any defining support on any larger TF chart can still run profitably. It is like race cars.....it is not how good they look, but how well they run that counts! If you are going to put your money down on a good looking race car, is it important enough to find out first if it complies with the essence of a winning race car? Think about it. The increased risk is yours to take, or not. It was, is and will always be an individual traders own decision to make.
  • #13,895
  • Jul 28, 2010 4:35pm Jul 28, 2010 4:35pm
Quoting traderathome
Sonic never called it "necessary". He calls it "essence".

And Sonic never said there weren't other 'good' setups. In his "Secret of SonicR" document, he is talking about the essence of SonicR, and the "highly profitable ones."
This is what I meant, just said it in another way ... Thanks for clarifying more

Regards,
Basber
Trading methods are designed to put the odds in our favor, not predicting.
  • #13,896
  • Jul 28, 2010 4:39pm Jul 28, 2010 4:39pm
Quoting traderathome
KumoDragon, I give a lot of credit to Sonicdeejay for highlighting the essence of the SonicR method. And that pdf document is not hard to find. In FACT, it is the VERY FIRST item a new perosn is presented with to click on for an intro of SonicR! .....Yes! The very first item!!!!!

But not even Sonicdeejay can preclude people rushing thru the initials, eager to get started, and as a consequence.....

.....yeah, all the previously answered questions come rolling in.

Is there an EXACT answer to every facet of trading, to every facet of the SonicR...
FYI, I did download and read that document the very first day I looked at sonic.

The way it is presented it makes it seem as if it is not apart of the 15M set up, and that it is a longer term trading stratagey to compliment the strategy.

I'll ask again, if it is so important then why is it not in the actual set up manual? With the number one instruction being:

#1: First find a price action bar on 4H and or D1...........then drill down and look for a proper setup on 15M.

P.S. Telling people to read the entire thread, when they have very specific setup question, is frankly rediculous considering how long it is now.
  • #13,897
  • Jul 28, 2010 4:45pm Jul 28, 2010 4:45pm
Quoting traderathome
"You're so damn right that if it's nessecery, it should be in the original manual. It's not, and that's why it's not in there. As you see, not every good sonicr setup, is a hammer or any other bar formation on higher TFs." - Basber

Sonic never called it "necessary". He calls it "essence".

And Sonic never said there weren't other 'good' setups. In his "Secret of SonicR" document, he is talking about the essence of SonicR, and the "highly profitable ones."

Look at it this way. "Essence" means core, center, what is most defining...
Good post. And if something like this were added to the manual with the, "essence," being a part as well I think it would be a lot better than splitting it up.

Having different higher probability setup with added confirmation is great. All I'm saying is that the manual should be more specific on this. Otherwise it can and will lead to confusion, which is obvious from my posts.

It could also lead to a better understanding of why sometimes someone may be inclined to hold on to a trade for more pips or make the stop wider.
  • #13,898
  • Jul 28, 2010 4:56pm Jul 28, 2010 4:56pm
Since we are on the subject I would like to know:

1. Are these the only two price action bars we look for on higher Timframes.

2. Does the price action bar have to be the present bar or can it be a couple back. For instance if I see a pin bar forming on 4h, do I only then go looking for the 15M set up. OR, if there was a pin bar on 4H a few bars back is it still good.

I ask this because:

"Sonic R is basically trading in Hammer and Bullish engulfing bars D1 TF/H4 TF by

looking for an entry M15 TF"

To me that makes it sound like we should be looking to trade WITHIN the actual price action bar as it forms.

3. If trading after a price action bar is still valid, when is the bar considered invalid? After price has reversed on it?
4. What is the specific definition of pin bar, hammer, engulfing bar, within the realm of the sonic r method.
  • #13,899
  • Jul 28, 2010 5:07pm Jul 28, 2010 5:07pm
Quoting KumoDragon
Good post. And if something like this were added to the manual with the, "essence," being a part as well I think it would be a lot better than splitting it up.

Having different higher probability setup with added confirmation is great. All I'm saying is that the manual should be more specific on this. Otherwise it can and will lead to confusion, which is obvious from my posts.

It could also lead to a better understanding of why sometimes someone may be inclined to hold on to a trade for more pips or make the stop wider.
KumoDragon, I am sure you will find concensus with the wish for a more well thought out, yet still simple "all-in-one-place" SonicR Method Manual.

I understand that Sonicdeejay, since starting this thread, has become a father and has seemingly also become heavily burdened with increased responsibilities at work. His infrequent appearance of late is testimony to how busy he must be, since he loves trading this method and sharing all of it that he can. At worst, the detached bits and pieces of "SonicR Method Gems" are still within this thread. At best, maybe some day someone will invest their own time and provide us with such an improvement.
  • #13,900
  • Jul 28, 2010 5:18pm Jul 28, 2010 5:18pm
Quoting traderathome
KumoDragon, I am sure you will find concensus with the wish for a more well thought out, yet still simple "all-in-one-place" SonicR Method Manual.

I understand that Sonicdeejay, since starting this thread, has become a father and has seemingly also become heavily burdened with increased responsibilities at work. His infrequent appearance of late is testimony to how busy he must be, since he loves trading this method and sharing all of it that he can. At worst, the detached bits and pieces of "SonicR Method Gems" are still within this thread....
I wouldn't mind helping putting together a more comprehensive manual. But, at this time I dont feel I have all the details. Nor have I been trading sonic long enough and profitable enough yet.

If anything is really missing I think it is more specific definitions of the higher time frame price action bars and how and when to act on them. (see my above post with my questions)
29 traders viewing now