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  • #264,201
  • Jun 28, 2010 7:27pm Jun 28, 2010 7:27pm
Quoting uraceulose
Well said MB...I wanted to put more in my response to him too but figured it wasn't worth it....
If only it were that easy over the long haul. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You cannot swing for the fences with tight stops and expect to be consistenty successful.
  • #264,202
  • Jun 28, 2010 7:27pm Jun 28, 2010 7:27pm
Quoting pauly
AU 8100 is under the 2 strongest supporting TLs.

watch out !
yep...i'll move stop to some profit way before then..I also plan on taking a long when I close this trade..where ever I actually close it...i think we see one more drop down on some china bad news within the next few weeks. I don't know what the news is and I don't have a "tip"...just a hunch
  • #264,203
  • Jun 28, 2010 7:34pm Jun 28, 2010 7:34pm
Quoting realjumper
I guess there are many factors involved here.....size of account, strategy, fundies etc etc etc, but for me, I will never let a trade get 100 into the red....ever. If that were the case, I would consider that I phucked up my TA and picked a bad entry as a consequence. As I say, it depends on many variables, and I have seen many traders get well into the red before turning a nice profit in the end.....but I can't do that. I would rather exit with a small loss and re-evaluate my TA to see whether to reverse my trade, or just sit it out and wait for...
Yeah, definitely depends on your strategy and MM. Some people trade in such a way that they would get margin called if a trade went 100 pips against them, although I suspect if this is the case a margin call is not far off regardless. I've only let trades go against me 100ish pips or more a few times. My trades are usually very small relative to account size though. I've never been a fan of a static stop loss because markets are always changing. This isn't to say I don't use stops, I'm just re-evaluating the situation when trades go against me. If a short trade has gone against me for example, I'll ask myself knowing what I know now, would I place a short at this level? If the answer is yes I don't close out the trade, I re-evaluate, place a new SL, TP, etc. Turning a larger loss into a smaller loss is just as valuable as turning profit.
  • #264,204
  • Jun 28, 2010 7:39pm Jun 28, 2010 7:39pm
Quoting Awesome
Yeah, definitely depends on your strategy and MM....
i agree on the static stops...must be dynamic. the only way to keep a static stop imo would be to trade only one method on say 3 or 4 major pairs. you add exotic pairs in or volatile pairs and you must use a wider stop if you're trading the same method on say eu as AJ..this is actually the way I trade short term.most here already know i think this is how I do it
  • #264,205
  • Jun 28, 2010 7:39pm Jun 28, 2010 7:39pm
Quoting uraceulose
Well said MB...I wanted to put more in my response to him too but figured it wasn't worth it....
Suprisingly, it's the proper STOP level that most traders suffer with. A lot of traders have a hard time setting proper STOP levels to allow the trade room to breath. Their innate fear of loss will force them to set unrealistically tight stops which result in compounded loss over time.

You need proper R/R ratios in order to actualize gains even when losses exceed wins, but it's easier to win than lose and a lot of trader can let a trade run and run without thought, but let it go 45 points negative on the daily chart, and they panic like a school girl.
Capital Preservation is key to long term wealth accumulation
  • #264,206
  • Jun 28, 2010 7:45pm Jun 28, 2010 7:45pm
Quoting MuddBuddha
Suprisingly, it's the proper STOP level that most traders suffer with....
thank you MB.

I battled with this myself..trying to take long term trades with way too tight of a stop..trying to get "more per pip"...it don't work. stalk the setup, wait for it to develop and already have a pre-determined entry and stop is what works for me far more often than not..panic is an emotion that is not a problem for me..i truly never overleverage myself anymore. NEVER. this is the only way that I could find myself "panicking"
  • #264,207
  • Jun 28, 2010 7:45pm Jun 28, 2010 7:45pm
Quoting MuddBuddha
Actually, that's not true.

You can have a trading strategy that only is successful 35% of the time, but with a heavy weighed R/R ratio to the reward side, you can still be very profitable.
I don't think he was suggesting that >50% winrate was needed, but that the value of wins just needed to be greater than the value of losses.

Quoting uraceulose
I battled with this myself..trying to take long term trades with way too tight of a stop.
As did I, and it lead to me missing out on much of the euro drop.
  • #264,208
  • Jun 28, 2010 7:46pm Jun 28, 2010 7:46pm
Quoting cheagil
bruised but not shaken. enter the market again with new set up.
sell at 2382. tp at 2205 and again no stop loss until MC. Exposure: 2% only.
comments and condemns not welcome.
closed at 2279...
may enter the market again ..waiting for upward retracement to enter short again.
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  • #264,209
  • Jun 28, 2010 7:47pm Jun 28, 2010 7:47pm
Quoting Mr J
I don't think he was suggesting that >50% winrate was needed, but that the value of wins just needed to be greater than the value of losses.
think about what ya just said...this goes without saying. that's not what the opp said...he could have clarified
  • #264,210
  • Jun 28, 2010 7:47pm Jun 28, 2010 7:47pm
Some VERY good posts I just read. Thank you all
  • #264,211
  • Jun 28, 2010 7:49pm Jun 28, 2010 7:49pm
G'day y'all!
Not all sins are created equal
  • #264,212
  • Jun 28, 2010 7:51pm Jun 28, 2010 7:51pm
Quoting MuddBuddha
Suprisingly, it's the proper STOP level that most traders suffer with....
Very true! Post of the week right there folks!
Not all sins are created equal
  • #264,213
  • Jun 28, 2010 7:51pm Jun 28, 2010 7:51pm
Quoting uraceulose
think about what ya just said...this goes without saying. that's not what the opp said...he could have clarified
Well yeah , but it's amazing how many people don't really give it much thought. Anyway, he didn't say you needed to win >50%, but that we needed to be right more often than wrong, which means making good trades more often than bad trades. The trades don't have to win (often), they just have to be good. A great trader who has a 30% winrate is going to be "right" most of the time, even if he loses most of the time.
  • #264,214
  • Jun 28, 2010 7:52pm Jun 28, 2010 7:52pm
Quoting thelws
yay, its coming down!

now make my week!
Make my month!

Another month bites the dust
Not all sins are created equal
  • #264,215
  • Jun 28, 2010 7:52pm Jun 28, 2010 7:52pm
Quoting uraceulose
thank you MB.

I battled with this myself..trying to take long term trades with way too tight of a stop..trying to get "more per pip"...it don't work. stalk the setup, wait for it to develop and already have a pre-determined entry and stop is what works for me far more often than not..panic is an emotion that is not a problem for me..i truly never overleverage myself anymore. NEVER. this is the only way that I could find myself "panicking"
Yep, if your getting butterflies every time a trade moves a few pips against you odds are your over leveraging.
  • #264,216
  • Jun 28, 2010 7:54pm Jun 28, 2010 7:54pm
Quoting Mr J
Well yeah , but it's amazing how many people don't really give it much thought. Anyway, he didn't say you needed to win >50%, but that we needed to be right more often than wrong, which means making good trades more often than bad trades. The trades don't have to win (often), they just have to be good. A great trader who has a 30% winrate is going to be "right" most of the time, even if he loses most of the time.
i agree.

GDay Jay...hope all is well in the eastern hemisphere
  • #264,217
  • Jun 28, 2010 7:56pm Jun 28, 2010 7:56pm
In all actuality it's not about your win % it's about how you manage a trade. Even with a < 35% win rate with proper trade management you can have a positive ROI. Think about it.
  • #264,218
  • Jun 28, 2010 7:57pm Jun 28, 2010 7:57pm
Quoting uraceulose
i agree.

GDay Jay...hope all is well in the eastern hemisphere
Whatever planet I'm on, the temperature is nice, stomachs are filled and my people are sheltered from the elements. All is well

Yourself?
Not all sins are created equal
  • #264,219
  • Jun 28, 2010 8:03pm Jun 28, 2010 8:03pm
Quoting GulfCoastPip
In all actuality it's not about your win % it's about how you manage a trade. Even with a < 35% win rate with proper trade management you can have a positive ROI. Think about it.
Exactly!

It's rare that I put a sl of more than 20, and it's not too often that they get hit. It's just a matter of being patient and entering according to your plan, at a sensible place....imo
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #264,220
  • Jun 28, 2010 8:25pm Jun 28, 2010 8:25pm
Here's some more food for thought....


Depending on the time frame & pair....20 pips "may" not be enough room for the pair to breathe. So keep that in mind too. Because all of this falls into "trade management" .... it's pretty individual, but if you're struggling this may be something that you (struggling traders) look into.

I don't know how many times one of my trades have gone 40-60 pips against me on the 15m/1hr time frame, only to turn around and I bag a truck load of pips. Sometimes you get lucky and pick the top or bottom or real close, but most of the time we don't pick tops and bottoms. Because of that it's also important that you trade according to your account. Perhaps trade according to worse case scenario. What if scenarios? (ie....If you were to lose access to your trading station and all phones for 10-12 hours how would you trade that position? Could that trade withstand a draw down? What if some man made or natural disaster occurred during that time and the market went 300 pips against you would your account survive? Would you only be 1% down, 2% down or 80% down? Do you use an emergency stop? Hard stop? Mental stop? )



Many pips to all of you.
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