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CHOROS System

  • #401
  • May 28, 2010 7:08am May 28, 2010 7:08am
Quoting samer960
kalispera kostas
i m glad to see you have found a profitable way , a few months ago u have opened a thread looking for a way to be profitable and it seems you have found it . you are certainly a bright example of hope for traders who are having difficulties in this journey.
happy trading
samer
Kalispera Samer,
Nice hearing from you again. After your last communication I consider you a buddy. Thanks for your good words, which coming from you is an honor.

Kostas
  • #402
  • May 28, 2010 8:43am May 28, 2010 8:43am
KOstas,

I don't know if you saw my earlier post about that MA indicator you have.

I am looking for one that accurately shows the Daily equivalents onto the 1hr chart. I have found that this transfer has the largest discrepency.

It looks like you have one. May I have a look at it?

thanks

Lee
  • #403
  • May 28, 2010 9:27am May 28, 2010 9:27am
Here's a trade that should have worked but didn't:

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: trade5_28.jpg Size: 250 KB


This is a perfect example of a high probability trade that just didn't work out. If you follow The Dance (or any system), you know that there's a better than even chance that touch trades will move in the direction they're "supposed" to move in. What you don't know is which trades will follow these rules and which ones will not, especially when one signal (the touch) quickly morphs into another (the constrainment).

However, as a trader, you have to keep taking the high probability trades with the confidence that over time, your wins will be greater than your losses.

Second lesson here is that regardless of what the "rules" say the market is going to do, it actually does what it darn well pleases!

Hope your trading day was better than mine...

Hiram
  • #404
  • May 28, 2010 9:44am May 28, 2010 9:44am
Quoting hiramp
Here's a trade that should have worked but didn't:

Attachment

This is a perfect example of a high probability trade that just didn't work out....
Hiramp,

I cant quite work out your first trade, the one where you said you 'went' to early. The only MA I have around there was the 15minute 10, but that is not where you are showing your enrtry and it was flat at that time too.

In relation to the second trade, Price has been rejected strongly at the previous candle many times today. Also, the touch of the 35 would have been just below the MR1, which may had provided additional restistance once price has passed through it.

I can't see what your lines are, as some are too thin on the picuture, but it looks like the 35ema is missing. I know it's obvious now, but this would have been a better trade as it was in confluence with the daily open, but it sitll only gave up 10 pips or so.

If you look at your 5minute chart you will see a quadrouple tops and on your 1hr chart you will see triple tops. Lots of rejection here.

Just my take on things.
  • #405
  • May 28, 2010 9:52am May 28, 2010 9:52am
Quoting hiramp
regardless of what the "rules" say the market is going to do, it actually does what it darn well pleases!

Hiram
Exactly. Along with the good, also comes the bad. Just can't let it bother you. Just need to take the loss and wait for another setup.
  • #406
  • May 28, 2010 10:32am May 28, 2010 10:32am
Quoting leemonk
STOPPED OUT
I see I'm not the only one that occasionally swings at a curve ball and strikes out!

Actually, I tend to learn more from the failed trades than from the successful ones so I'm really glad to see that you guys are not just posting the winners.

Hiram
  • #407
  • May 28, 2010 10:38am May 28, 2010 10:38am
Quoting hiramp
I see I'm not the only one that occasionally swings at a curve ball and strikes out!

Actually, I tend to learn more from the failed trades than from the successful ones so I'm really glad to see that you guys are not just posting the winners.

Hiram
Yeah.... that one bugged the hell out of me, BUT I made it up and THEN some just after.

I don't post every chart I trade, but I don't just pick the winners and most times, if I have had a losing trade I will say so in the following chart.

If I have a loss followed immediately by a win, then the win will get posted with a comment on the loss.

The losers are the best ones to learn from. How often do you look at a trade and really, and I mean REALLY work out why it happened, yet we do it lots to a losing trade!

Lee
  • #408
  • May 28, 2010 10:38am May 28, 2010 10:38am
Quoting leemonk
I cant quite work out your first trade...

In relation to the second trade, Price has been rejected strongly at the previous candle many times today. ... Lots of rejection here.
The first trade was an absolutely stupid mistake on my part. I was so engrossed in waiting for what I thought was a perfect touch, that I literally had the buy screen up and my finger on the mouse button ready to jump in. I shifted in my chair and my finger applied too much pressure on the mouse. Bada-Bing-Bada-Boom, I'm in the trade. I know - really stupid newbie mistake.

As per the rejection on the second trade, I can see I was so focused on completing the touch that I forgot to notice the other "clues" the market was giving - kind of like making a right turn without checking your side mirrors.

Appreciate your comments and will certainly try to apply them.

Hiram
  • #409
  • May 28, 2010 10:56am May 28, 2010 10:56am
Quoting hiramp
The first trade was an absolutely stupid mistake on my part....
It's like we were saying this morning. The trade you took, DID give up some pips, but they were small. The key is to taking them. Now, if you suspected that the trade would only give a little then you are prepared for it and will close out the trade on the first sign of it coming back at you.

However, if you are expecting a good move, then you are simply not ready for it.

With the high pressure downwards, if I had taken the trade, which I didn't because of the high pressure, then I would have been prepared to take 10 pips or so (Not that it gave up that much).

What I am trying to say is that the safety of a setup is relevant to the level of pips you want from it. If you go for small amounts, then you can, almost, take every single bounce out there. HOwever, if you are looking for good trades that allow you to close early if you 'wish', then yes, you do need the good setups.

That's the beauty of this thread, even by losing, you gain....... in knowledge. Just try not to lose real money

Lee
  • #410
  • May 28, 2010 12:41pm May 28, 2010 12:41pm
Quoting leemonk
What I am trying to say is that the safety of a setup is relevant to the level of pips you want from it.
Good advice. That's like saying that the safety of a car is dependent on the type of the road it's driven on.

My take-away from this: watch for the Dance signals but also pay attention to the "music" that you're dancing to (ie: the other clues the market is giving you like MA, S/R, PA, etc).
  • #411
  • May 28, 2010 12:59pm May 28, 2010 12:59pm
Let me fly something past you guys. Clay says that we should have a maximum of 5 trades per session.

I've been thinking of Kosta's advice of having a daily goal of 30 pips. Trying to fit that within Dance rules, can that be composed of something like 3 successful trades with a minimum of 10 pips per trade (usually 10-15) and a total of 2 losing trades with no more than an average loss of 10 pips per trade?

I'm interested in gaining some insight in how you "draw the line" where you decide to quit for the day. My biggest downfall right now is fighting the urge to "make it back" when I take a loss, even a small one. I don't think I have to tell you that that usually leads to bigger losses.

Second question: Looking at Lee's strategy of taking multiple positions on the same trade, would each position count as "a trade" even though the entry point is the same?

Thanks.

Hiram
  • #412
  • May 28, 2010 1:25pm May 28, 2010 1:25pm
Quoting hiramp
Good advice. That's like saying that the safety of a car is dependent on the type of the road it's driven on.

My take-away from this: watch for the Dance signals but also pay attention to the "music" that you're dancing to (ie: the other clues the market is giving you like MA, S/R, PA, etc).
The only thing I would add to this is that the strategy I was trading before this very much included 'touch' trades, so it is something I am 'fairly' familiar with, given my overall lack of experience.

I caveat the initial statement by saying that you shouldn't run before you can walk. Just wait for the good setups, there are enough of them in a day. You WILL be successfull waiting for those, but get the 'Dance' basics down first. If you do not, then you will not know the difference between a good signal that will give up some good pips or one that gives only a little, simply because you are NOT looking for the difference.


Quoting hiramp
Let me fly something past you guys....
THe statements from Clay were about keeping your 'head' right. If you can recognise that you are having the 'make it back' thoughts, then you are halfway there to stopping them, BUT only halfway. If you can sit it out or ONLY take the perfect setups, then you are doing well. If however, you take the next trade and continualy know that it was the wrong thing to do almost as soon as you are in it, then yuo are trying to get even, and that rarely works. If you find you are taking losing trade after losing trade, your mind is definately in the 'wrong' place and you should stop. Stop and think about it, walk away, dont look at charts, but just recognise what is happening.

When I take losses, I reevaluate what went wrong and then I pick the next trade VERY carefully. If a loss has come from a tight stop or something similar that really couldnt be helped, then I will try to get back in the game, by waiting for a GOOD setup.

If the losses came from chasing hte market, I walk away for a little bit.

These are only what I do, and you need to find your own 'thing'. But honestly, you WILL know whats happening in your head.... the difference is knowing it before OR after you enter a trade. If you know you are chasing the market, then walk, if you know you are seeing a good setup, then trade it.

One of the worse things that can happens is to be scared ofthemarket. If it beats you, then you lose, if you stop trading then it wins.

Look at my signature. I got that from Og Mandino's book.

In relaiton to multiple trades on one setup. I lower my risk to do this, so I do NOT count this as multiple positions. ie If I were to enter one trade it would be at a say 0.9, however when I split my trades into three, they are all at a value of 0.3 each. So my overall risk is exactly the same.

This is exactly the same as taking one ttrade and doing a partial close on it, except my way is Much much easier to manage! (not my way, but you know what I mean). With set SL's you tend not to mess with them so much and they get hit and you book profit. When you have to rely on yourself to take profit........well..... how many times has it turned all the way back on you???????????

Again, please remember that I am NOT experienced, it's just hat I have had that 'click' and it's like a fog has lifted!

Regard

Lee

ps... remember UK is on bank holiday on monday!
  • #413
  • May 28, 2010 1:26pm May 28, 2010 1:26pm
Kostas,

Congratulations on the 3rd vouch! Just noticed it.

Lee
  • #414
  • May 28, 2010 3:59pm May 28, 2010 3:59pm
I'm new to this system, but I'm intrigued. Always been a Fib/Elliot Wave trader, but this market chopiness has got me in a tough slump. Am I seeing bullish constrainment in Usd/Cad at the moment? Double-checking my understanding of the system. Thanks ahead for the input. Profitable trading to all next week, but enjoy the weekend first!
"If it was good enough for Gann, it's good enough for me..."
  • #415
  • May 28, 2010 4:47pm May 28, 2010 4:47pm
Quoting leemonk
KOstas,

I don't know if you saw my earlier post about that MA indicator you have.
I am looking for one that accurately shows the Daily equivalents onto the 1hr chart. I have found that this transfer has the largest discrepency.
It looks like you have one. May I have a look at it?
thanks
Lee
Lee,
Sorry. I had it in my mind to post that but then I forgot.
I am not at my trading computer now but the indicator is the one posted by Swingman (a great programmer by the way), called Dance MovingAverages_v2. It works fine for me. On my M15 I have the H1 equivalents and on the H1 I have the H4 equivalents.

Kostas
  • #416
  • May 28, 2010 4:52pm May 28, 2010 4:52pm
Quoting hiramp
Good advice. That's like saying that the safety of a car is dependent on the type of the road it's driven on.

My take-away from this: watch for the Dance signals but also pay attention to the "music" that you're dancing to (ie: the other clues the market is giving you like MA, S/R, PA, etc).
Nice take-away message Hiram. Just be patient and you will start seeing the trades more clearly. In the beginning stick to trades that have confluence (MAs with round numbers or MAs with daily pivots or MAs with previous support/resistance, or MAs from different timeframes).

Kostas
  • #417
  • May 28, 2010 4:58pm May 28, 2010 4:58pm
Quoting hiramp
I've been thinking of Kosta's advice of having a daily goal of 30 pips. Trying to fit that within Dance rules, can that be composed of something like 3 successful trades with a minimum of 10 pips per trade (usually 10-15) and a total of 2 losing trades with no more than an average loss of 10 pips per trade?
Thanks.

Hiram
Hiram,
3 trades of 10-15 pips is all you need (with appropriate lot size to correspond to 3% daily risk). Obviously, if you loose 30-40 pips in a day that would be the right time to stop. Actually, this is a good rule of thumb since it usually means that you are not in tune with the market if you have already lost 30-40. Save your money for another day.
On the other hand, if one trade has hit your SL and in short time you see the perfect opportunity don't hesitate to take it. What usually happens is that your losing trade was just a little too early and the right opportunity is the second one. When you become more proficient with this and grow your patience you wil start avoiding the first loosing ones.

Kostas

Kostas
  • #418
  • May 28, 2010 5:01pm May 28, 2010 5:01pm
Quoting FFBrian13
I'm new to this system, but I'm intrigued. Always been a Fib/Elliot Wave trader, but this market chopiness has got me in a tough slump. Am I seeing bullish constrainment in Usd/Cad at the moment? Double-checking my understanding of the system. Thanks ahead for the input. Profitable trading to all next week, but enjoy the weekend first!
Brian,
Welcome to the thread. Chopiness in general is no problem with this method. Actually, I have found many times that chopiness just gives you more opportunities in the day. Only exception is the infamous "porcupine" area (when bars have long wicks both ways which means that the price is choppy within the same bar). Avoid trading during porcupine areas.

Kostas
  • #419
  • May 29, 2010 1:09am May 29, 2010 1:09am
Quoting kostas1
.............What usually happens is that your losing trade was just a little too early and the right opportunity is the second one. ........

Kostas

Kostas
My EXACT problem. 2/3'sof my lossess come from these types of trades.

I have started using the 1/5m to gain entry, but it's a work in progress.
  • #420
  • Edited 7:15am May 29, 2010 2:12am | Edited 7:15am
Quoting kostas1
Lee,
Sorry. I had it in my mind to post that but then I forgot.
I am not at my trading computer now but the indicator is the one posted by Swingman (a great programmer by the way), called Dance MovingAverages_v2. It works fine for me. On my M15 I have the H1 equivalents and on the H1 I have the H4 equivalents.

Kostas
Hi Kostos, sorry you wouldn't mind posting this one as well would you?

Thanks!

EDIT: Don't worry I found it on the Dance thread!
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