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CHOROS System

  • #361
  • May 27, 2010 10:55am May 27, 2010 10:55am
hmmm..

I just followed what you said you did, and it's exactly how I do it.

Not sure why it's not enlarging. Funnily enough, Clay's never used to enlarge either.

If you are worried about losing sight of the trade, all you have to do is hit 'screen shot' and then you can worry about posting it later.

Thats what I do, enter a trade, press screen shot, watch trade for a minute or two and then post into 'paint'.

If you wanted to watch the whole trade, then just take the shot at the beginging. when the trade closes, post that into 'paint' (or whatever you are using), then take another quick shot, edit the original, save it and the post hte new one.

You'll see the different in information it gives. You may not think so now as you know what you did in your own trade, but when others start posting, sometimes it difficult to see.

THis is why Clay was such and avid poster! It makes huge difference!

Lee
  • #362
  • May 27, 2010 12:42pm May 27, 2010 12:42pm
OK, lets try this:

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: tester.JPG Size: 92 KB


IF this works, the reason some images won't enlarge is because they're already smaller than a specific size. I had re-sized the images I posted before in order to make them smaller. The image above I simply followed Leemonk's thread to the letter (ie: hit PrtScrn to place the entire desktop on the clipboard, go into MS Paint, paste the image, etc) so it's quite a bit bigger in size.

Now, in regards to this trade in particular, note that the Daily chart has a nice touch on the 5MA so you would expect prices to start falling. There are (at least) 2 problems with this trade. First, that green candle is 77 pips in length so putting your stop just above the candle after the doji last Friday would require a 70 pip SL. That's a lot of risk. The second problem is that since this trade if off the daily chart, you might have to leave it on for a couple of days before prices actually move your way. Again, a lot of risk - and a lot of sleepless nights. I guess the upside is that if prices actually go down to the low they reached on Wednesday (76.50), you stand to gain around 260 pips, more than a 1:3 risk/reward ratio.

I've taken this trade on a demo account just to see what will happen. My question to the group is would you have taken this trade?

Hiram
  • #363
  • May 27, 2010 1:33pm May 27, 2010 1:33pm
Quoting hiramp
My question to the group is would you have taken this trade?
I think I've answered my own question. Looking over Clay's notes, he says that trading decisions should be made off the M15 only. The other time frames (H1 and D1) are for confirmation only.

Still, it's an interesting question...
  • #364
  • May 27, 2010 1:46pm May 27, 2010 1:46pm
Quoting hiramp
I think I've answered my own question. Looking over Clay's notes, he says that trading decisions should be made off the M15 only. The other time frames (H1 and D1) are for confirmation only.

Still, it's an interesting question...
Hiramp,
In the Choros thread I would add H1, H4 since they overpower the lower TFs. But it makes sense to use M5 to fine tune entries/exits.

Kostas

P.S. Glad that you started posting charts. Patience now with choosing your battles.
  • #365
  • May 27, 2010 2:38pm May 27, 2010 2:38pm
I can't beleive how different the charts are on teh same pairs. I trade the same pair as you and my candles are very different. I know this is to be expected from the daily and the 4hr candles, but I didn't think the remaining ones would be affected as there is no different start times......

I didn't think there was a 5ema on this strat?

I can't really comment on as I balls'd up my GU daily trade earlier. In both cases there are fairly strong reversal candles which if were on any other time frame would probably have persuaded me to stay out.
  • #366
  • May 27, 2010 2:59pm May 27, 2010 2:59pm
Quoting kostas1
Sure, here it is :nerd:
Thank you!
  • #367
  • May 27, 2010 3:00pm May 27, 2010 3:00pm
Quoting hiramp
I think I've answered my own question. Looking over Clay's notes, he says that trading decisions should be made off the M15 only. The other time frames (H1 and D1) are for confirmation only.

Still, it's an interesting question...
As Kostas says, the higher timeframes are important. Technicaly the higher the MA the more important it 'should' be, therefore a 50 on the 1hr is the equivalent of a 200 on the 15minute, therefore you would expect more resistance there. High timeframe PA is also suppposed to be stronger too.

That said, Clay oringial started his strategy with 5 minute chart entries, however he stopped using it because he found he was taking signals on it, rather than using it for entries only.

Though.... if you look at the strategies employed by Kostas and Clay, although they share the same overall trading strategy, Kostas' attitude to taking profit was very very differnt to Clays. He admitted himself that he was prone to swinging for the heavens on each trade and nearer the end of his thread, he did state that he thought Kostas's method of taking pips when they were there was the right way to go. He has also said the same in emails to me.

If you take this information, then the 5minute chart makes sense. Signals on there 'should' give over less pips, but if you are happy to take those pips, then it really doesn't matter. Obviously, Kostas has taken this one step further and now takes entries off the 1minute chart, which infact means he is trading the 5minute chart, whereas you and I are trading the 15minute chart.

Essentialy you need ALL the timeframes. Though..... to many and you will start seeing counter signals and there will be to many reason to not go in. My advice, based on my VERY limited knowledge, would be to settle on however many timeframes you want and then do NOT change them.

I am unlikely to use the 4hr, for some reason the idea that everyones 4hr charts are differnt upsets me a little, therefore I do not trust it, at least not with this strategy.

One thing that is starting to happen to me and Kostas touched on it today, the smaller timeframes really do tell the story of the standalone candles. You can see a candle on the 15minute and think it didn't bounce off that MA, when infact it did and it gave up 15 pips then retraced again. The 15minute (or which ever TF) won't show you this but the lower ones will. And again, this ties in well for me when you start thinking about taking lower levels of pips.

For instance, your 50 trade earlier was great, I would have loved that trade, but I probably would only have gotten around 25/30 pips on it with the way I setmy trades and TP's. BUT, doing it this way means I am booking profit as I go rather than, what used to kill me, waiting to 'see' what happens and having it reverse nearly all the way back.

Whats really sunk in with my over the course of this thread and Clays one is that trading really is simple..... I don't mean easy, I mean simple. Keep it simple until you get good at simple, then add something, if you need to. That could be another timeframe, another MA, another pair, another session..... anything really. BUT do NOT do that until you get good at simple, else nothing will ever be simple.

Clay, in his emails to me, kept on at me to stop complicating it, and surprise surprise, when I did, it clicked. Now, don't get me wrong, I am very much a newbie, but I KNOW I am differnt to three weeks ago.

I know I have moved away from the rules and Kostas has too, but I am going to read the rules again tomorrow, because despite adding 5% to the account today, I was pi$$ed at the bad trades I took. All because I was getting overconfident.

Sorry for the wall of text, but if I can share what I have learn..... however small it is, then it's worth some sore fingers!

And.... as Kostas said.... keep the charts comign, even the bad ones, infact, especially the bad ones. I'll always tell how many trades I have taken in my posts even if I don;t post the charts, because sometimes, like Kostas replied to you, you need someone to reel you in a bit (not suggesting that you do, just a figure of speach).

Anyhows... this was suppposed to be a short reply..

Good night and good trading tomorrow.

ps..... UK is on bank holiday on monday so it may be a little odd tomorrow!

Lee
  • #368
  • May 27, 2010 3:19pm May 27, 2010 3:19pm
Quoting leemonk
I didn't think there was a 5ema on this strat?
My mistake. I meant the 10EMA. My charts are set up according to The Dance with the only addition being a Pivot indicator after noticing how you and Kostas use them - and seeing how prices tend to be affected by them.

And I really appreciate your post on the importance of the various time frames.

Every time I think I "understand" something, someone else says or does something that forces me to re-evaluate what I thought I knew. It's like looking at a crystal where every time you rotate, the light reflects off of a different facet causing you to see the same thing in a slightly different way.

Hiram
  • #369
  • May 27, 2010 3:21pm May 27, 2010 3:21pm
After wading through "Trading in the Zone," here's what I've determined are the most important take-aways (that I plan to paste next to my monitor!):


The 7 Rules of a consistent winner:

 

  1. I objectively identify my edges.
  2. I predefine the risk of every trade
  3. I completely accept the risk or I am willing to let go of the trade
  4. I act on my edges without reservation or hesitation
  5. I pay myself as the market makes money available to me
  6. I continually monitor my susceptibility for making errors
  7. I understand the absolute necessity of these principles of consistent success and therefore I never violate them.



The 5 Fundamental Truths of the Market:

 

  1. Anything can happen. The Market can change directions at any moment. It can go up, down, sideways, or stay the same. It’s past history or direction is no guarantee of future direction. Anything can happen.
  2. You don’t need to know what is going to happen next in order to make money. In fact, trying to predict what’s going to happen next leads to emotional distress, fear, anticipation, elation – all emotions that cloud your judgment and prevent you from seeing what the market is presenting.
  3. There is a random distribution between wins and loses for any given set of variables that define an edge. What you need is an edge that puts the odds in your favor – and then you need to take enough trades so that the probabilities work in your favor.
  4. An edge is nothing more than an indication of a higher probability of one thing happening over another. All it does is put the odds in your favor over the long term – it does NOT predict individual winners and losers.
  5. Every moment in the market is unique. It doesn’t matter what the market has done in the past because the past is history. Just like each flip of a coin is a unique event with the same 50/50 probability, each moment in the market is unique.



You can become the Casino instead of the Player if:

 

  1. You have an edge that genuinely puts the odds of success in your favor (your trading system)
  2. You think about trading in the appropriate manner (the 5 Fundamental Truths of the Market)
  3. You do everything you need to do over a series of trades (the 7 rules of a Consistent Winner)


Then, like a casino, you will own the game and be a consistent winner.

  • #370
  • May 27, 2010 3:31pm May 27, 2010 3:31pm
Quoting leemonk
...if you look at the strategies employed by Kostas and Clay, although they share the same overall trading strategy, Kostas' attitude to taking profit was very very differnt to Clays. He admitted himself that he was prone to swinging for the heavens on each trade and nearer the end of his thread, he did state that he thought Kostas's method of taking pips when they were there was the right way to go.
I found the same advice in "Trading in the Zone." The author recommends trading in sets of 3's (ie: entering 3 trades at the same time on the same pair and under the same conditions). The first trade is closed out as soon as you get a couple of pips and is basically to cover the cost of your spread.

The second trade gets closed out at your normal TP point, usually an area of S/R.

The 3rd trade is your "swing for the heavens" trade that you let run wild for as long as you like, or that you put a trailing stop on before going to bed.

The idea of putting on multiple trades and taking "progressive profits" is supposedly (according to the author) more profitable over the long term than the "all or nothing" approach most of us take.

Hiram
  • #371
  • May 27, 2010 3:37pm May 27, 2010 3:37pm
Hi guys,

Where has Clay gone and why?

I am new to forex, 4 months now on demo, just opened live on Oanda. I do price action (I think that is the term used).

Just read this thread. Where would you suggest a newbie starts with this.

Many thanks and kind regards.
  • #372
  • May 27, 2010 3:50pm May 27, 2010 3:50pm
Quoting leemonk
1) That said, Clay original started his strategy with 5 minute chart entries, however he stopped using it
2)Though.... if you look at the strategies employed by Kostas and Clay, although they share the same overall trading strategy, Kostas' attitude to taking profit was very very different to Clays.
3)Obviously, Kostas has taken this one step further and now takes entries off the 1minute chart.
4) I know I have moved away from the rules and Kostas has too.
Lee
1) He did because he wanted to make the method as simple as possible (good idea) and he could afford to, since he was shooting for many pips.
2) Correct! Same strategy, different take profit targets
3) I am NOT taking signals off the M1 but refining my M15 entries with M1 and M5. I DO take some strong signals from M5 (post #336). The M5 will fake you more often but using quick take profit and small SL it's treating me great so far.
4) I don't think I have moved away from the rules. As I said above, same rules different way to take profits. That said, if from this great company we have in this thread, we discover something that can be used as a rule, we will change the rules. The idea of course is to try to keep this system as simple as it is without complicating it with unnecessary rules.

Kostas.
  • #373
  • May 27, 2010 3:57pm May 27, 2010 3:57pm
Quoting morfisher
Where has Clay gone and why? ...

Just read this thread. Where would you suggest a newbie starts with this.
Hi and welcome aboard!

As far as where Clay went and why, I don't know all the details so I can't really comment. All I can say is that his advice - although sometimes brutally honest - is missed.

As to where to start, down at the bottom of this page (as well as at the top) you should see the page indicator that tells you what page you're on as well how many other pages are on the thread. Click on "<< First" and you should be taken to post # 1 where Kostas outlines the purpose of the thread. He also includes a link to the original thread on The Dance where you can find the "course materials" including The Dance Manual and indicators. THAT's where you need to start.

Read the manual. Then read the manual again. And then come back here with your questions. You'll always find someone that will take a stab at providing an answer.

Hiram
  • #374
  • May 27, 2010 4:07pm May 27, 2010 4:07pm
kostas why not make a room on skype ?

best regards
  • #375
  • May 27, 2010 4:17pm May 27, 2010 4:17pm
Quoting jgadefelth
kostas why not make a room on skype ?

best regards
jgadefelth,

I am a busy professional (mostly trading from work actually) and I simply don't have enough time to help in a skype setup.
The best way in my opinion is to continue this thread in the spirit that Clay started it, which is post your charts here and we discuss them. As more of us become proficient we could give even more help to each other.
My wish is that people who stick at this thread are the ones that have the necessary focus to succeed (and believe me that is exactly what Clay gave me through his teachings). Skype or other chat sessions are useful but some times you can get distracted. So study this thread (Dance thread also), post your charts & questions here and we discuss as we learn.

Kostas.

P.S. Of course if my name changes to eKostas and I ask $50 per person for a skype session, you should start worrying
  • #376
  • May 27, 2010 8:39pm May 27, 2010 8:39pm
Hi Kostas1,

Would it possible to show this thread your account balance....I'm a newbie so its really a newbie stupid request...lol....You started trading the Dance back in March '08 .... so approx 2 years and you mentioned that you gain between 3 & 9 % per day.... So at the low end at 3% a day that should give you an account balance of $299,034,379.73

Thanks,

Billser


Quoting kostas1
Hi all,

CHOROS (pronounced ho-roh-sh) means Dance in Greek.
Since that's where I am from, I thought I could use this as a name since anything else could be considered dangerous. My name doesn't start from "e" which is also considered dangerous in FF.

Anyway, I am posting this just to have a home for those who want to continue discussing the Dance strategy which has been moved by the admins. My experience with the strategy is very positive so far and I will continue trading this way since it has changed my results dramatically. Original...
It's All About Attitude ...
  • #377
  • May 28, 2010 12:02am May 28, 2010 12:02am
Quoting kostas1
1) He did because he wanted to make the method as simple as possible (good idea) and he could afford to, since he was shooting for many pips.
2) Correct! Same strategy, different take profit targets
3) I am NOT taking signals off the M1 but refining my M15 entries with M1 and M5. I DO take some strong signals from M5 (post #336). The M5 will fake you more often but using quick take profit and small SL it's treating me great so far.
4) I don't think I have moved away from the rules. As I said above, same rules different way to take...

Morning Buddy,

I think I might have been a little murky in my post. Let me just reply so you know what I meant.
Quoting kostas1
3) I am NOT taking signals off the M1 but refining my M15 entries with M1 and M5. I DO take some strong signals from M5 (post #336). The M5 will fake you more often but using quick take profit and small SL it's treating me great so far.
This is exactly what I meant. I think maybe my use of the words entries and signals might not have been the best. I meant that you take entries off the 1minute chart rather than trading it..... ie looking for 'Dance' signals from it.

Quoting kostas1
4) I don't think I have moved away from the rules. As I said above, same rules different way to take profits. That said, if from this great company we have in this thread, we discover something that can be used as a rule, we will change the rules. The idea of course is to try to keep this system as simple as it is without complicating it with unnecessary rules.
Didn't mean offence here, but as the basic set of rules go, we have moved from them, we take counter trades, which is the biggest step away...... but my point wasn't to dig, it was more about looking at it from an evoloutionary point of view. Because we (you mainly - I am still working on it) are happy to take a smaller amount of pips on each trade, then it makes sense to take counter trades if the signals are strong enough. I think the main reason Clay didn't was because they tend to revert back fairly quick, leaving pips on the table and an SL that was about to get hit.

To be fair, if we had the advanced manual, then I would hazard a guess that we trade from that!

Hope thats a bit clearer.

L:ee
  • #378
  • May 28, 2010 12:08am May 28, 2010 12:08am
Quoting leemonk
Morning Buddy,

I think I might have been a little murky in my post. Let me just reply so you know what I meant.

L:ee
Lee,
Really no offense taken. I know you mean well and that's how I interpret your posts. All I want is to have the rules of the game clear for the rest of the people. Keep doing your great job in this thread!

Kostas
  • #379
  • May 28, 2010 12:09am May 28, 2010 12:09am
Quoting morfisher
Hi guys,

Where has Clay gone and why?

I am new to forex, 4 months now on demo, just opened live on Oanda. I do price action (I think that is the term used).

Just read this thread. Where would you suggest a newbie starts with this.

Many thanks and kind regards.
Morfisher,

Welcome.

You sound simlar to me, I have been learning now for around 5 months or so.

As much as the answer is going to bore you, Hiramp was correct. You realy really need to start in the original thread. The source of information in there is unbeleiveable.

Clay posted tons of charts and that is where much of the strategy is clearest.

Comign from someone just as new as you. Please read the manaul and the original thread before you start trying to trade to much. It will save you a lot of disapointment and anguish. I was trying to do both and I was posting a ton of questions because I kept messing up, now here, we will try to help you as best we can, but this thread does not have the level of support that the original did, so you really need to get what you can from the original thread.

I beleive Kostas posts links to somewhere where you can download the original thread....rapidshare I think it was.

Lee
  • #380
  • May 28, 2010 12:10am May 28, 2010 12:10am
Quoting kostas1
Lee,
Really no offense taken. I know you mean well and that's how I interpret your posts. All I want is to have the rules of the game clear for the rest of the people. Keep doing your great job in this thread!

Kostas
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