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  • #541
  • Apr 11, 2010 4:32am Apr 11, 2010 4:32am
How do you know that Im not a real autor of those texts
  • #542
  • Apr 11, 2010 4:37am Apr 11, 2010 4:37am
guys dont go for who is right or who is wrong.who is copying who is doing paste.take the good advice and leave the bad ones .
take what works for u.peoples are here to learn or teach not spying.
  • #543
  • Apr 11, 2010 4:39am Apr 11, 2010 4:39am
Quoting Parazite
How do you know that Im not a real autor of those texts
Hmmm, I don't know, and obviously if you are then I apologize, but I thinks it's unlikely.
  • #544
  • Apr 11, 2010 5:03am Apr 11, 2010 5:03am
Bonjour Parazite,

From traders who are REALLY willing to learn the right way :

Please, it would be so kind of you to post some charts example which explain your concept ?

Thanks for your attention,

Cheers

Angel
  • #545
  • Apr 11, 2010 6:05am Apr 11, 2010 6:05am
Quoting Scotty B
I know I'm asking more of a matching engine type question, but I'm very curious.

Oh one more..What happens if buy stops were just triggered @ 100.00 and I issue a massive market sell order at the same time that dwarfs the demand the stops create? What would the PA look like in that case? Would the buy stops push price up and then my order smash it down creating a pin bar? Or would my long down bar form with the buy stops getting filled invisibly at nearest bid prices as price fell? Would you see any upticks at all if the buy stop was big enough...

Really enjoyed that discussion Scotty, got a lot out of that one mate
Sounds like I'm too insignificant to engage with. Perhaps I'll just ignore you from now on like everyone else does.
  • #546
  • Apr 11, 2010 6:10am Apr 11, 2010 6:10am
Quoting trade price
i know its not good to post someones else posts but its valid as long as it helps new people to understand this business.(imho)
and of course he did not said he knows everything.he was helping people. and he did copy and paste that helps someone.
if u can do that, please do. as long as it helps someone.

If anyone has this text then I wonder if you could PM me please? Would be interested to see this post.

Thanks
  • #547
  • Edited 7:22am Apr 11, 2010 6:49am | Edited 7:22am
Most of the retails traders are out of the game when big orders flow comes in the market.dont fight with their plan just join with their plan if u wanna success in this business.
if u are not sure what i am talking about. here is chart.
i can show them in any charts.and i am not talking hindsight(actualy i am talking now).
chart-
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: test22.GIF Size: 20 KB

that was my live trades if u see my active thread u will find at that time it was a live trades and i do post results as well..


i do post lots of live trades in my thread and last friday i posted few live trades in the saxons thread(nearly naked-simple trade)
here is the few live trades links (at that time it was live. any one can check the date and time)

#128
#131
#140
#143
#159
#174
#178
#186

happy trading
sho

edit:by the way all the links copy and paste from my own posts.
  • #548
  • Apr 11, 2010 7:35am Apr 11, 2010 7:35am
Quoting Sutts

What I think happens is that your huge market sell order eats up the nearest liquidity first (which happens to be the influx of market buy orders created by the stops triggering). This effectively removes all the market buy orders before they've had a chance to effect price (by filling the sitting limit sell orders above).
Hey Sutts,

Sorry I didn't respond to you, please don't take it personally. Sometimes I intend to respond to someone and I come back later to find several new pages have appeared in a thread and I simply forget about a post.

Anyways.. Good work thinking about what I presented. I do not beleive that the large market sell would be filled with the market buys, market orders don't trade with market orders. As I've thought more about my own question, I think in a fast crazy market a larger spread would momentarily appear. Price would go up and down at the same time. The buys would remove offers and the sells would take out bids. The Forex is probably too big and liquid for this type of spread to form though. I'm sure a robot exists to chase price and fill in such a gap with new offers/bids. If the gap were not filled right away you'd see price zigzagging up and down the length of the gap. This is situation where a chart would not help you. You'd have to be looking at DOM to see it. If I'm right, the market could easily trade up and down at the same time. This type of thing could explain PA like pin bars.

Say price is trading at 100.40 and at a relative high point. Now say there is lots of buy stops sitting at 100.45. MM's are seeing balanced flows @ 100.40A/100.39B and replenishing liquidity in a tight range simply because of the balanced flow. MM's see this as a potential short term high and the ask side of the market is pretty heavy while new bids will not follow price up anyfurther. Maybe some of the orderflow in the tight range is coming from hedge funds who are selling and this tips off dealers not to offer too much size on bids any further up. One of the hedge fund traders gets news of the stops at 100.45, so he does what we've been talking about and issues a large limit ask at 100.50, then buys into the stops. The stops create a spike up to the 50 mark, and very few dealers offer new bids between 40 and 50, the deep bids are still down at 40. After the 50 mark is hit and someone comes in and sells even a little, the market will immediately gap down to the 40 mark and voila, we have 10 pip pin bar. This induces the techies to start selling and the market moves down until equilibrium is found again.

Quoting Sutts
PS. Another question I'd like to answer is this:

If price was to move to a level where there are an equal number of limit buy and limit sell orders, would the 2 groups of limit orders be matched up (effectively cancelling out all the sitting liquidity at that level) WITHOUT the need for any market orders to be submitted?
This is somewhat cloudy for me. To my knowledge, limit orders cannot exist at certain prices until the market is above or below the price you want to trade at. For example, right now the market is 100.00bid and 100.02ask. If you were interested in issuing a limit sell of 10 lots at 99.99, you'd have to wait until the ask price was at 99.99 or lower to submit your order, otherwise you'd be filled at 100.00. I think I'm right on this. The term, if I'm not mistaken, is a marketable limit order. This has to do with exchange rules.

If you think about it though, it wouldn't make sense to say hey I'd like to submit a limit sell at 99.99 right now when someone is willing to give me 100. It does make sense if you're thinking ahead though, but if you know the market is going to drop, you might as well sell at 100 now, then 99.99 later.

I know this is not specifically what you were asking, I'm just explaining the only way I know of where a limit order can trade with another limit.
  • #549
  • Edited 10:22am Apr 11, 2010 9:48am | Edited 10:22am
Quoting eurotrash
Hmmm, I don't know, and obviously if you are then I apologize, but I thinks it's unlikely.
Idk he might be the author because he sure likes quoting him

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=1344

"Why do institutions spread large orders between three, or more brokers, use iceberg orders, and stealth trading. If it's not important, why hide it.
Paradoxically the majors are hiding what the minors aren't even looking at ?. If nobody's looking they won't see the gorilla.

Learn about the inter-relationships between the following four market segments; OPTIONS,STOCKS,FUTURES AND CFDs.
Learn about arbitraging. What. Who. How. Why. When.
Learn about the 4 segments from the perspective of writers of the derivatives.
when you have learnt that fully you will begin to understand."

And on the site:

http://www.camron.com.au/components/index.htm

to begin your journey

learn about the inter-relationships between the following four market segments.
learn about arbitraging. What. Who. How. Why. When.
learn about the 4 segments from the perspective of writers of the derivatives.
when you have learnt that fully you will begin to understand.
we are advised cfd's are responsible for driving 40% of activity in the physical stock market.

Interesting stuff on that website.
  • #550
  • Apr 11, 2010 10:43am Apr 11, 2010 10:43am
Quoting eurotrash
Sure it may or may not be right, I'm just saying that anyone can copy and paste info that has been painstakingly researched and written by others and try to pass it off as their own (note: copy/paste from articles without acknowledging it's someone else's work = trying to pass it off as your own) and make it appear as if they know what they're talking about.

I'm not suggesting that Parazite doesn't know what he's talking about, I'm sure he does, but it's just not right what he did. And it's sort of directed to Scotty as well, given his responses...
so lemme ask how does this impact your trading can you spot these orders before they hit? or are we expecting price to run after someone buys a huge amount.. because if i remember right a barings trade lost 6$ billion in firm money speculating on currencies..and I think I would hate to be following that big money..
  • #551
  • Apr 11, 2010 10:51am Apr 11, 2010 10:51am
Quoting Scotty B
This is somewhat cloudy for me. To my knowledge, limit orders cannot exist at certain prices until the market is above or below the price you want to trade at. For example, right now the market is 100.00bid and 100.02ask. If you were interested in issuing a limit sell of 10 lots at 99.99, you'd have to wait until the ask price was at 99.99 or lower to submit your order, otherwise you'd be filled at 100.00. I think I'm right on this. The term, if I'm not mistaken, is a marketable limit order. This has to do with exchange rules.
I didn't want to get into these questions because, yes most of these type of questions are order mechanics related and are market specific or differ by broker / dealer or market but most of these sound like they are CME futures related questions. You can issue the marketable limit order to sell at 99.99 limit and it acts as a market order at 100 with the limitation on price to 99.99. Another way to handle the situation is to issue a stop limit order with a 99.99 stop and a 99.99 limit attached. Some markets offer these types of orders, and some do not. You might miss a fill with a stop limit order, however, if the price moves below 99.99 before your order can be filled.

Quote
If you think about it though, it wouldn't make sense to say hey I'd like to submit a limit sell at 99.99 right now when someone is willing to give me 100. It does make sense if you're thinking ahead though, but if you know the market is going to drop, you might as well sell at 100 now, then 99.99 later.

Yes makes sense and I've done it that way - you want a fill but you also want to limit your worst entry price. Sometimes these markets are moving around 4-5 pips by the time you get your order in. Limiting orders can mean some missed fills so there is a counterbalance.

And to your final point - yes limit orders don't trade with each other unless some of them become marketable. It would be a strange *weekendish* thing indeed if the markets had no market orders and the limit orders just stood still.

Scotty - you asked previously about a big order (or several counterbalancing orders) and how the banks would deal with some type of situation like that. If you have access to the data on a low timeframe, take a look at the most recent NFP just after 8:30 (Eastern) and before the decline on the EUR/USD started. Pay particular attention to the period from 8:32-8:35 for how the initial orders were finally digested by the banks. It's my speculation that because there were far fewer participants (good friday 4/2) that the move was delayed as a round of pass the Euro went on and as prices were brought back to their starting level due to the lack of heavy transactions going on until positions could be hedged. I think the activity you see after 8:35 is consistent with banks being "in charge" with little outside activity driving the movement but lots of drift in prices to allow for lots of fills at different levels, which would tend to benefit the banks. At least that was the thought I had when I was watching it unfold.
  • #552
  • Edited 11:09am Apr 11, 2010 10:56am | Edited 11:09am
At the end of the day you need to know where the trigger places are where your at on the chart and the stops everything else flows right through those points.. I dont need to know that a institution is trading 400M at X price because if you see it .. your ment to see it.. I was beat up before I got to hidden liquidity.. trust me .. These guys will do anything and everything to hide orders or show orders .. the use a technique called "feeding price" as well basically faking volume buys and sells at different levels.. I dunno anyone who can trade based on the BIG DAWG and make money.. its just an area of market understanding that leads down 3 years of indepth research leading you to the same place you started.. trust me I know.

here where you go trying to follow big money... http://www.currencyconverter.co.uk/a...nk090404101547

order processing is important.. how limits works and market orders work is great structure and how things are processed important..
how price moves.. liquidity.. whats happening on charts.. this is important stuff

not ZOMG DA'BIG DAWG be RUNNIN DA PRICE.. stay on topic please

And parasite is right whatever he said based on what Ive seen quoted.. these guys hide stuff and reroute stuff and it looks like its coming 10 different ways in machine gun style firing rate.. hidden or not hidden .. there is no point trade price and trade simple orderflow..
  • #553
  • Apr 11, 2010 10:56am Apr 11, 2010 10:56am
Quoting Fx chartist
Hi Forex, Im trying to understand about what you said (in the red ink) but it doesn't make sense to me at all. I hope you could elaborate on that statement.

How do you know or recognize that big money was absorbing the selling? how you recognize the big money is showing up at the important S/R ????
Sorry that was a litte bit imprecisely.

If the price goes to a certain level and nobody is willing to sell or fill the orders, price normally comes down.

That’s what you see on footprint charts for example 0/226 bid/ask traded.

Friday was what I call a “overhead hidden buying pressure” day.

Everytime euro made new lows (7-15 pip steps) huge buying showed up on the depth to absorb the most sellers while the offer side stayed at the same size or "collapsed".

Some people call this imbalance.

At important S/R levels the big money shows up by looking at the market depth.
  • #554
  • Apr 11, 2010 11:07am Apr 11, 2010 11:07am
Quoting Mr-Forex
At important S/R levels the big money shows up by looking at the market depth.
So we just need to look at DOM and see the bigger volume is in our side?
If a break happens on low volume it wont stick and vice versa.

Is there any need to look for anything more subtle thn that?
  • #555
  • Apr 11, 2010 11:16am Apr 11, 2010 11:16am
Quoting Deusomega

Interesting stuff on that website.
And I'd like to add a big thank you to eurotrash for providing the link. Very interesting stuff indeed!

Also, a belated thanks to Mr-Forex for posting a link that has been a huge eye-opener for me...
http://www.lind-waldock.com/educatio...eature02.shtml

Very educational!
  • #556
  • Apr 11, 2010 11:16am Apr 11, 2010 11:16am
Quoting Mr-Forex
Some people call this imbalance.

At important S/R levels the big money shows up by looking at the market depth.

yeah I call it imbalance

but you are correct looking at the market depth around these levels will tell you alot about the buyers and sellers.. but this is an addon to basic charting and price action.. like in the last euro.usd trade where I said I was staying out ... We were at decent support but I saw on the FXCM DOM that it was laggin and was sad.. so I looked at the bloom and the buying surges around the support was def. more intense than the sellside.. which led me to say "I will not be taking anyshorts in here on the break lower.." price fell down a short amount then ran up and rocketed.. now im no market guru or anything but watching buying and selling pressure on a DOM around support and resistance can help your trading and understanding of the zones as an addon to the chart.

As for seeing the high vrs low volume transacted I dont look at this at all.. I look at the ratio buy to sell near support .. because the market can move on high volume or low volume.. and Ive seen 33M sell to 27M to buy in the 5 best prices move price less than 8M to 6M and Ive seen high volume large imbalanced ration run chunks on price.
  • #557
  • Apr 11, 2010 11:46am Apr 11, 2010 11:46am
Quoting Ted1983
So we just need to look at DOM and see the bigger volume is in our side?
If a break happens on low volume it wont stick and vice versa.

Is there any need to look for anything more subtle thn that?
No the DOM is a reflection of a small piece of a decentralized market. If you're looking at futures DOM you get a market that is a reflected market to the underlying cash market. If you're talking about a ECN's DOM, you get only what is displayed there and what others want you to see - it comes in when it wants to come in and there is no telegraphing of orders via the DOM. Most of the size trading sits on the sidelines and never shows up in the book. With that dynamic it's difficult to come to an if...then logical type of interpretation of the DOM. If you were talking about a single centralized market then the DOM there would be much more important.
  • #558
  • Apr 11, 2010 12:23pm Apr 11, 2010 12:23pm
got three trades open during market open.. well see how they go
AUDUSD rocketing at open.. be back in few hours
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #559
  • Edited 1:17pm Apr 11, 2010 12:38pm | Edited 1:17pm
Going back to the point about the value of trading on Oanda vs other options:

http://www.darkstar.com/greece.png

Back when I was on Currenex, I still wouldn't be able to trade for another 1 hour. Oanda may be a bucketshop, but it has its advantages.
  • #560
  • Apr 11, 2010 1:46pm Apr 11, 2010 1:46pm
Quoting eurotrash
OK, using google I was able to painstakingly reconstruct his post, and found it was basically a copy and paste from various articles from www.camron.com.au
Great site, i have been reading it (trying to navigate it lol) for last 3 years,
beware of copyright issues!!
You're not really anonymous on the net.
Biggest joker
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