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Sonic R. System

  • #11,561
  • Apr 5, 2010 4:06am Apr 5, 2010 4:06am
Quoting traderathome
EU and GU:

Entered short trades.
i dont really understand your entry... please enlight me!
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  • #11,562
  • Apr 5, 2010 4:34am Apr 5, 2010 4:34am
Quoting DanPa
i dont really understand your entry... please enlight me!
Yes. This is a "re-entry" entry. When price pulled up it failed to make the whole number (bearish), not even back to the Open. Instead, it bounced off the lower Dragon line area. So, I thought of this as bearish enough to make entry without waiting for a new low.
Edit: Unless EU and GU move down before US releases, I may be sorry I made these entries, because I will have to close them I think, even if at a loss, before the releases.
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  • #11,563
  • Apr 5, 2010 4:39am Apr 5, 2010 4:39am
Quoting traderathome
Yes. This is a "re-entry" entry. When price pulled up it failed to make the whole number (bearish), not even back to the Open. Instead, it bounced off the lower Dragon line area. So, I thought of this as bearish enough to make entry without waiting for a new low.
OK, got it, thx!

Also, i think will be very helpfull for us to have an indi who show weekly monthly and daily pivot all in one (as you know to make ) , because this and ''computer paper'' will be the all we need ! IF you have time and if you are kind...i'll pay in beer, bordeaux and whatever else you want for that!

Danpa

PS time for me to go! see you later !
  • #11,564
  • Edited 5:28am Apr 5, 2010 4:51am | Edited 5:28am
Quoting DanPa
OK, got it, thx!

Also, i think will be very helpfull for us to have an indi who show weekly monthly and daily pivot all in one (as you know to make ) , because this and ''computer paper'' will be the all we need ! IF you have time and if you are kind...i'll pay in beer, bordeaux and whatever else you want for that!

Danpa

PS time for me to go! see you later !
DanPa, how would you use the display of the three central pivots (for: M,W,D)? Please enlighten me as to how you would use their relative positions in your trade decisions. Or are you simply considering the M,W central pivots if they come close to looking like a target? I'd like to know what you are thinking here.

You can answer on your return, if you are not overstuffed or flat out drunk!

Edit: Added charts showing M and W central pivots. I want to understand DanPa's thinking on the manner in which their display will be used. It should be a simple matter to produce a special indy that displays just the M,W,D central pivots. I could maybe throw in the Range Hi/Lo and Open, too. Easy. But don't tell DanPa this. I expect to get beer, bordeaux, ribs and more for this!
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  • #11,565
  • Apr 5, 2010 5:20am Apr 5, 2010 5:20am
Quoting DanPa
OK, got it, thx!

Also, i think will be very helpfull for us to have an indi who show weekly monthly and daily pivot all in one (as you know to make ) , because this and ''computer paper'' will be the all we need ! IF you have time and if you are kind...i'll pay in beer, bordeaux and whatever else you want for that!

Danpa

PS time for me to go! see you later !


That is why I use this pivot.
Not saying T's pivots are not good , they are great, I just want to see the weekly and monthly pivots.
Maybe that is why, I can't pull the trigger. LOL
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Starting to see instead of just looking.
  • #11,566
  • Apr 5, 2010 5:40am Apr 5, 2010 5:40am
Quoting Rastaman
That is why I use this pivot.
Not saying T's pivots are not good , they are great, I just want to see the weekly and monthly pivots.
Maybe that is why, I can't pull the trigger. LOL
Rastaman, everyone cries "Pivots, pivots......I want those pivots!" And they all swear by their own favorite pivot indicator. But look at the two pics I put up. Now EU and GU are more than likely to move in the same manner after the US release. But look how differently their M and W pivots are located! When I look at that, I don't know what to think!

What I do think is that traders pay attention to whole, half, quarter and eighth numbers......in that order. And their daily machinations of price, back and forth between these numbers, is what produces pivots. So, I am coming to view pivots in another way, as a "secondary" indicator. I am not interested in trying to pinpoint the end of a run at a certain pivot. I am coming to the idea of trading between whole and half numbers. Or from a SonicR breakout to a whole or half number. And who cares if a little is missed on the front end, or back end, or both ends. 25 or 37 pips here, 50 or 62 pips there.....what is wrong with that? And the charts suddenly become much clearer, too.
  • #11,567
  • Apr 5, 2010 5:48am Apr 5, 2010 5:48am
Quoting traderathome
Rastaman, everyone cries "Pivots, pivots......I want those pivots!" And they all swear by their own favorite pivot indicator. But look at the two pics I put up. Now EU and GU are more than likely to move in the same manner after the US release. But look how differently their M and W pivots are located! When I look at that, I don't know what to think!

What I do think is that traders pay attention to whole, half, quarter and eighth numbers......in that order. And their daily machinations of price, back and forth between these numbers, is what...


T, is this like the suffragettes burn your bra type thingy? LoL

I think pivots are fine as long as wait for the retracement and don't use them as a breakout area.
Starting to see instead of just looking.
  • #11,568
  • Edited 6:10am Apr 5, 2010 5:56am | Edited 6:10am
Quoting Rastaman
T, is this like the suffragettes burn your bra type thingy? LoL

I think pivots are fine as long as wait for the retracement and don't use them as a breakout area.
No, what I am saying is that long before anyone came up with the concept of pivots and their formulas, people were trading based on the English monetary system. Could it be that over the many, many years, habits formed trading this way have become inbred into the "system" professional traders use? And the result today is, as it may have started and has always been, that whole and half numbers are the ultimate pivots, with quarter and eighths included. Everything else is just someone's idea of applying a fancy formula to try and second guess future outcome!

Look at any chart. Whether movement is up or down, it obeys these areas and turns at these areas. We all know that price "overshoots", so we speak of areas. Pivots are maybe superfluous......just another invention for non-professional traders, to help them keep their eyes off the ball?

Who knows. Everyone has their own cup of tea.......
  • #11,569
  • Edited 6:22am Apr 5, 2010 6:08am | Edited 6:22am
Quoting traderathome
No, what I am saying is that long before anyone came up with the concept of pivots and their formulas, people were trading based on the English monetary system....
I agree. Since I deleted all pivot indicators from my charts, I have noticed
one interesting thing: the levels that work the most are S&R lines that you
can draw with your naked eye. And to my surprise those lines are mostly
around round numbers (1.3500 eg.) and half round numbers (1.3550 eg.).
This way I can see almost pure price action.

P.S. Has anyone noticed that when Bloomberg or some other TV channel
analysts talk, they always mention round numbers like "The support should
be at 1.4500 blablabla...".
_______________________________________________________________
Quoting traderathome
Pivots are maybe superfluous......just another invention for non-professional traders, to help them keep their eyes off the ball?
I don't know about that, since they have been invented by the floor traders in Wallstreet.
Are there any forex floor traders in Wallstreet?
cut losses short, let profits run.
  • #11,570
  • Apr 5, 2010 6:22am Apr 5, 2010 6:22am
Quoting Domas4
I agree. Since I deleted all pivot indicators from my charts, I have noticed
one interesting thing: the levels that work the most are S&R lines that you
can draw with your naked eye. And to my surprise those lines are mostly
around round numbers (1.3500 eg.) and half round numbers (1.3550 eg.).
This way I can see almost pure price action.

P.S. Has anyone noticed that when Bloomberg or some other TV channel
analysts talk, they always mention round numbers like "The support should
be at 1.4500 blablabla...".
Well, it is probably mass psychology that causes price to behave at round and half numbers as it does.
I can say that, while I was over at the J16 site, I saw not one person using pivots and round numbers such as sweetspots gold, were used by a few people but mainly they were using nearby highs and lows as targets and breakouts.

And as Domas says, most of the price action is at these round numbers.
Obviously round numbers are a self fulfilling prophecy.
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Starting to see instead of just looking.
  • #11,571
  • Apr 5, 2010 6:34am Apr 5, 2010 6:34am
Rastaman, yeap it might be.

__________________________________________
Anyhow, since it is a boring day:
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cut losses short, let profits run.
  • #11,572
  • Edited 6:50am Apr 5, 2010 6:38am | Edited 6:50am
Quoting Rastaman
Well, it is probably mass psychology that causes price to behave at round and half numbers as it does.
I can say that, while I was over at the J16 site, I saw not one person using pivots and round numbers such as sweetspots gold, were used by a few people but mainly they were using nearby highs and lows as targets and breakouts.

And as Domas says, most of the price action is at these round numbers.
Obviously round numbers are a self fulfilling prophecy.
Well, here is a picture for you all. And at what price area did the pop petter? And, Rastaman, look at the second pic. Those highlighted levels are not whole or half numbers. They are eighths!
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  • #11,573
  • Apr 5, 2010 7:03am Apr 5, 2010 7:03am
EU Short Trade:

Just closed it for a little profit. My GU short trade is still running. My SL was mental and I chose to keep the trade. I am down 13 pips at the moment, but this still looks bearish. Time will tell. Just under 2 hrs until US releases.....
  • #11,574
  • Edited 12:29pm Apr 5, 2010 8:36am | Edited 12:29pm
Quoting Domas4
Since I deleted all pivot indicators from my charts, I have noticed one interesting thing: the levels that work the most are S&R lines that you can draw with your naked eye.
What an excellent and valuable observation, Domas. I'd vouch for you all over again if I hadn't already done so. So much value is in your sentence above that I have decided to crawl out of my hole in the ground and step up on my soap box to draw attention to it. Too often, the real solid posts here seemingly go unnoticed, while the wayward and better to be forgotten posts become the subject of page after page of debate and discussion.

Trading becomes quite simple when you base your trades on those obvious and easy to see levels. It is made difficult when we start to base trades on levels derived from various mathematical equations. But most people do not want trading to be simple. They want it to be a great mystery resolved by science, and thus seek indicator after indicator.

Look at the EURUSD over the last few days - taking pips from this thing can be easy, or difficult, or impossible. We each decide for ourselves what it is going to be. I choose to make it easy.

Here is what I have been working on for the last four months: I buy at support with tight stop loss, and I sell short at resistance with a tight stop loss. I add to longs on a SonicR only if price has tested an obvious to the naked eye support level. I add to shorts on a SonicR only if price has tested an obvious resistance level. If I am wrong on my first try at S/R, my loss is small, almost always less than 10 pips, and very often less than 5 pips!

Chart 1 shows "Obvious to the Naked Eye" S/R, chart 2 shows the Sonic Dragon, Chart 3 marks Sonic Entries. Last night, for example, I got short at 1.3535, and then added on the SonicR short at 1.3505, so I already was sitting on +30 pips when I added on the SonicR. This morning I bought at 1.3465, and I just now added at 1.3494 - again, I was already sitting on +30 (ok, +29) pips when I added on the SonicR. My stop loss is 1.3483, so even if I take the hit on the SonicR, I will have a better than break even trade because I bought the first position almost 20 pips below the stop loss on the SonicR.

We each can choose which way to go. My choice has been this: SonicR is based upon S/R and wave analysis. I had always used Wave analysis for entries, and S/R for profit targets. Now I use S/R for initial entries, SonicR wave analysis to pyramid into a bigger position (add to positions on SonicR), and S/R for profit targets and stop and reverse points (My long trade this morning at 1.3465 was a stop and reversal of last night's short).

It sure beats what I still see too much of here: the never ending search for candles, pin bars, multiple moving averages, oscillators etc and so on. But, to each his or her own. I am now a "live and let live" kind of guy. If you want to take a good system like the SonicR and destroy it by trying to make it a perfect system, more power to you.

I will now step down from my soap box and crawl back into my hole, but I leave you with this last observation: SonicR - I think of the "S" as standing for SUPPORT and the "R" as standing for RESISTANCE, and without S/R, you cannot spell SonicR!

S(upport)onicR(esistance)


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  • #11,575
  • Apr 5, 2010 9:30am Apr 5, 2010 9:30am
Had anyone like me entered short for EU/JPY and CHF/JPY ? Can anyone tell me what forced it to reach SL??
  • #11,576
  • Apr 5, 2010 10:06am Apr 5, 2010 10:06am
As I said before, here I use two charts SonicR and a personal settings, only with emas, rsi and volume, that one helps me make my entries, and can tell you that help quite a lot...

this one right now, 17pips, so for the day 33,15 and this one now, so far so good....

PS>and I rarely set my stop loss, and when I did, a spike hit that!!! so that's why you dont see the stop loss!!! I rather do it manually...
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  • #11,577
  • Edited 11:26am Apr 5, 2010 11:13am | Edited 11:26am
Quoting ddaytrader
It [S&R] sure beats what I still see too much of here: the never ending search for candles, pin bars, multiple moving averages, oscillators etc and so on.
And so here goes another excellent ddaytrader's post to my notebook.

I think the reason why most forex traders fail is that they cannot believe that
trading is simple. That is, after reading all sorts of fundamental analysis, trying all sorts of
indicators they cannot accept the fact that simple stuff like S&R, Highs and Lows work best.
I almost became one of those people, thank God I found this thread!
cut losses short, let profits run.
  • #11,578
  • Apr 5, 2010 11:47am Apr 5, 2010 11:47am
Quoting amlavor
As I said before, here (1#) I use two charts SonicR and a personal settings, only with emas, rsi and volume, that one helps me make my entries, and can tell you that help quite a lot...

this one right now, 17pips, so for the day 33,15 and this one now, so far so good....

PS>and (2#) I rarely set my stop loss, and when I did, a spike hit that!!! so that's why you dont see the stop loss!!! I rather do it manually...
1# Sorry, but can you post the chart with SonicR. This way everyone will be able
to see your entry, TP and SL.

2# I think you know that trading SonicR, you always must set SL. If you are
afraid of spikes, this means that your SL is too close, or setup is incorrect.
cut losses short, let profits run.
  • #11,579
  • Apr 5, 2010 12:08pm Apr 5, 2010 12:08pm
Quoting Domas4
1# Sorry, but can you post the chart with SonicR. This way everyone will be able
to see your entry, TP and SL.

2# I think you know that trading SonicR, you always must set SL. If you are
afraid of spikes, this means that your SL is too close, or setup is incorrect.
OR my broker is hunting my SL, if you see the chart when I posted of the low spike that hit my stop loss, I was the only one here to present that, and funny because in the demo account such thing never happened(and I'm still upset lol..), so I do have a stop loss, but it is in my mind, once is reached I exit my entry.
  • #11,580
  • Apr 5, 2010 12:11pm Apr 5, 2010 12:11pm
Traderathome, Domas4, Ddaytrader....

As everyone say the same thing i decide to try this, trade with charts as simple as possible, only pivot i left it here !

Ddaytrader, very valuable information you shared here so i thank you very much!
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