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  • #9,421
  • Mar 11, 2010 3:33am Mar 11, 2010 3:33am
Quoting RussiaTrader
1. yes, i trade a variation of dibs, dojis and IBs
for example i take every trade on dibs with the same charateristics peter crown would do it BUT i only take the trades which are in line with the general trend. so no trades against the general trend. the general trend is subjectiv, but thats where my experience comes in.

2. yes, i like to work with concepts of "relativ highs/lows" to trail a trade.
on youtube i found a video of a trader who is explaining it quite well.
its in german, but the picture should be enough explanation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6teBFFnKns...
Laughed out loud on this one. I know you warned everyone: "Sprechen sie Deutsch?"
  • #9,422
  • Edited 6:54am Mar 11, 2010 6:41am | Edited 6:54am
James996

I'm coming at this from the perspective of a student learning to trade. What I found is that the longer time frames gives me fewer opportunities to blow my bankroll than by taking every opportunity I see (or think I might see) on the smaller time frame And while you are right that technically the time frame does not matter, the larger time frame allows me to see the opportunities to add to positions that I would otherwise miss on a lower time frame - this was key for me in my back testing - (sleep, work, social life, porn watching), so on a relative basis (adjusting for duration of trade, risk taken, etc), my winning positions should be larger than if I was trading lower time frames (If I ran a 24 hour forex desk, that may be different). On top of it all, this is a small account - which i did previously state, so its not food off the table. Would I do this with a large account - probably not. Additionally, as the account grows, the risk will fall as I will have more granularity. Could all of the information i gleaned from by back testing turn out to be crap, I suppose it could, but so could anyones. What I also found is that as I increased the length of my trailing stop, my risk of ruin increased, but the size of my wins did as well - they just became more infrequent

As far as the 3400 pips (which is down to about 2900 to 3000 at the moment) it was just a demonstration of the virtue of holding, which requires some discipline - some thing lacked by most beginning traders - it was just a demonstration that all the basic knowledge you need was given by the IB lesson.

So RT, maybe the markets will go flat soon, maybe they wont.

Quoting james996
I'm calling bs.

There is no difference and it doesn't matter what time frame your trading. As far as the frequencies of trades that has no relevance either. Risk of ruin is just that and it does not matter what time frame your on or the amount of trading taken place. Go do your homework and check out the math you don't have a clue what your talking about.

Knight Rider if you were referring to me than all I have to say is I read just fine and I certainly don't need to be guided by you or anyone else around here also I can assure you that the info...
  • #9,423
  • Mar 11, 2010 7:28am Mar 11, 2010 7:28am
You know, this makes me smile. If you can't look at a monthly chart and know where the long term trend is, then shame on you. As far as worrying whether the trend is going to change, how much time do you think you'll have to decide on whether it has, so you can get out with all those accumulated pips? Do you think bond traders worry about whether the trend is going to change in the next hour, day or week?

In any event, Elliott wave should give you quite a good indicator, especially in the long term. Why don't you look up Bob and see what you think? It's not a short term tool, otherwise you'll be spending all your time much in the same way as looking out for dibs!

The above is something you should be looking at last. If you don't know what is going to happen to a pair without looking at a chart, then this is a shame also. One fellow member jested about economics - I never took the bait (pun intended again), because it doesn't apply to me - but I would say he was quite wrong, especially in looking at the big picture! Even if you don't know something for sure, you can look at a whole numer of indicators which should tell you with some degree of certainty where the long term trend is. The only thing which might affect this is a "black swan" event, but fundamentals always come back. Even our legendary Mr Peter Crowns alluded to the fact he could tell whether a pair was still in a secular bull market as opposed to a short term cyclical bear.

Then, you can study your charts and entry levels and so on and good luck with this.

One last thing before I possibly fade forever (not very nice responses so far - apart from Mary) is ask yourself where the market "FEEDS". When you see a news item and it says there are a number of stops at such and such a place, where do you think the market will go at some point?

I liked dibs because it was a great short term entry point to get into the long term trend. Will I be feeding "pac man" in the future - I hope not, but everybody is entitled to do whatever they want with their own money. Money talks, so to speak.

Knight Rider
  • #9,424
  • Mar 11, 2010 10:17am Mar 11, 2010 10:17am
anyone can look at a chart and see where a trend is or isnt......the challenge is measuring off risk.............
Quoting Knight Rider
You know, this makes me smile. If you can't look at a monthly chart and know where the long term trend is, then shame on you. As far as worrying whether the trend is going to change, how much time do you think you'll have to decide on whether it has, so you can get out with all those accumulated pips? Do you think bond traders worry about whether the trend is going to change in the next hour, day or week?

In any event, Elliott wave should give you quite a good indicator, especially in the long term. Why don't you look up Bob and see what you think?...
  • #9,425
  • Mar 11, 2010 9:30pm Mar 11, 2010 9:30pm
looking to build a long U/J position starting with this IB..........half the position will come off once the trade goes 1:1

and don't say I dont throw up any pics...........

(G/U short still sitting around 2950 to 3000 pips)
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #9,426
  • Mar 12, 2010 2:05am Mar 12, 2010 2:05am
Caught one on the cable but got stopped out

anyone been trading this system longer term (more than a month) and had some good results? What is your R:R average and how many trades you get per week? I'm starting today and hoping as I like the mm...
@pawpaw1000 on Twitter
  • #9,427
  • Edited 2:29am Mar 12, 2010 2:17am | Edited 2:29am
Quoting razorboy
looking to build a long U/J position starting with this IB..........half the position will come off once the trade goes 1:1

and don't say I dont throw up any pics...........

(G/U short still sitting around 2950 to 3000 pips)
Not sure if ur trade got triggered yet, but if ur stoploss is the entire bar then u should have about a 55-60 pips stoploss (including spread, there or there about). There's a trendline acting as resistance plus a s/r at around 91.30 which should be around the area where ur 1:1 is. If it were me I would probably take BE a few pips before that resistance area even though it might not be exactly 1:1, and move the stoploss on the remaining part to match the pips of the breakeven pips (which would still give u a free trade).

EDIT: I think I c the BE line on ur chart now, correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to be exactly at the area that I mentioned no?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #9,428
  • Mar 12, 2010 3:11am Mar 12, 2010 3:11am
Quoting pawpaw1000
Caught one on the cable but got stopped out

anyone been trading this system longer term (more than a month) and had some good results? What is your R:R average and how many trades you get per week? I'm starting today and hoping as I like the mm...
Hi Paw Paw,

Wasn't going to post here again, but felt compelled to!

In my humble of view, why take a dibs trade against the long term trend (I'm not saying you have)?

If you're going to take a dib against the trend (bat both ways, so to speak) and are successful, for god's sake take some profit! Even a salmon swimming against the tide has something to look forward to when he reaches his destination!

If you are going to put your stop losses in on the high or low of the inside bar, why not do it at key s/r levels and in the direction of the trend. Look at the long term charts for key areas of entry. If you try this for three months and your results have NOT improved 100% then you can tell me where to go. I hope you get in on the "long tail" and when you do, try not to take your profits early.

This is my humble advice just to you paw paw. It has been lost on the others - know it alls! They are following the mechanical holy grail. You don't have to.

Take it of leave it, but good luck anyway!

Best,

Knight Rider
  • #9,429
  • Mar 12, 2010 3:24am Mar 12, 2010 3:24am
Quoting Knight Rider
Hi Paw Paw,

Wasn't going to post here again, but felt compelled to!

In my humble of view, why take a dibs trade against the long term trend (I'm not saying you have)?

If you're going to take a dib against the trend (bat both ways, so to speak) and are successful, for god's sake take some profit!...
Sounds pretty logical to me mate, will definately try it that way. Hope when the others ridiculed you they gave reasons? anyways, will try your way. Any ideas on what type of R:R one achieves on average with this system???

eg. if you risk 1% and you get average 20 trades per month you will make 20% or R:R 1:1... Not saying all will win but the ones which win will be BIG!
@pawpaw1000 on Twitter
  • #9,430
  • Mar 12, 2010 4:17am Mar 12, 2010 4:17am
Quoting pawpaw1000
Sounds pretty logical to me mate, will definately try it that way. Hope when the others ridiculed you they gave reasons? anyways, will try your way. Any ideas on what type of R:R one achieves on average with this system???

eg. if you risk 1% and you get average 20 trades per month you will make 20% or R:R 1:1... Not saying all will win but the ones which win will be BIG!
from my experience with dibs 50% of the trades hit the 1:1 level, and the other 50% will result in a loss.
also you will have some slippage and commissions to pay on every trade.
  • #9,431
  • Mar 12, 2010 6:09am Mar 12, 2010 6:09am
Quoting Knight Rider
In my humble of view, why take a dibs trade against the long term trend (I'm not saying you have)?

If you're going to take a dib against the trend (bat both ways, so to speak) and are successful, for god's sake take some profit!...
Good post KR! It's a very good advice, especially if u r just starting out with DIBS, this certainly would be a good way to do it.

I think that it could be done otherwise in the moneymanagment and trademanagment departments than the original DIBS rules, so that you can take trades against the longterm trend (whats a trend, whats longterm?! - lets leave that for a rainy day lol) like when you're saying:
If you're going to take a dib against the trend (bat both ways, so to speak) and are successful, for god's sake take some profit!

And please dont stop posting because there are few people that think, say or are even against your opinions. We are all entitled to have our own thoughts so please don't stop writing here. Imagine what would happen if we all thought the same thoughts and traded the same trades...
  • #9,432
  • Mar 12, 2010 6:13am Mar 12, 2010 6:13am
I dont really pay attenting to SR lines for a few reasons.........one, they are subjective and two, if my trade is going to do what I am looking for it to do in the long run.........it is going to break thru S/R. All of my back testing was done ignoring S/R so it isnt a big factor for me. I just enter the IB's as the plot along the trend..........


I suspect I will get stopped out on this trade...... in @90.72 - SL @90.15 (I always add an extra 5 pips to the SL) half off at 91.29 if it hits.



Quoting NowAndLater
Not sure if ur trade got triggered yet, but if ur stoploss is the entire bar then u should have about a 55-60 pips stoploss (including spread, there or there about). There's a trendline acting as resistance plus a s/r at around 91.30 which should be around the area where ur 1:1 is. If it were me I would probably take BE a few pips before that resistance area even though it might not be exactly 1:1, and move the stoploss on the remaining part to match the pips of the breakeven pips (which would still give u a free trade).

EDIT: I think I c the...
  • #9,433
  • Mar 12, 2010 6:15am Mar 12, 2010 6:15am
I think you need to be a little more specific in your parameters........what time frame were you using? Did you have any entry filters? What pairs were you playing. Did you build positions?

I back tested two pairs, daily charts, medium term MA's as trailing stops, added positions as the trend progressed and got quite the opposite result to you.



Quoting RussiaTrader
from my experience with dibs 50% of the trades hit the 1:1 level, and the other 50% will result in a loss.
also you will have some slippage and commissions to pay on every trade.
  • #9,434
  • Mar 12, 2010 6:59am Mar 12, 2010 6:59am
Quoting pawpaw1000
Sounds pretty logical to me mate, will definately try it that way. Hope when the others ridiculed you they gave reasons? anyways, will try your way. Any ideas on what type of R:R one achieves on average with this system???

eg. if you risk 1% and you get average 20 trades per month you will make 20% or R:R 1:1... Not saying all will win but the ones which win will be BIG!
Well I’ve been drawn back again. Thank you for your post "pawpaw" (and "now and later").
The answer to your question lies in my response before. As my old mate Jim would say (mentioned in earlier “rant”: “if you don’t have the balls to be in the market, you have no place being here”)
The markets sure are “perverse”. I’ll tell you what I think is perverse is the fact that some people make HUGE profits on the backs of the little guys. If I was in the know or an “elite trader”, I would be screaming out loud to put your stop losses as close to your entry point as possible. Then I would be drinking cocktails (“the long short”) in the nearest bar! I’ll probably get into trouble for mentioning this, but hey: “one life, one chance”.
I’m sorry, but some people will never be able to “undo” what they think they “know”. More and more back testing must be the answer, because the market can’t be that simple. So they crouch around in their study rooms looking at every chart and candle stick until they think they have found the answer – the light bulb. I say go get your eyes tested for all that eye straining you’ve carried out.
For some of you city guys, why not bet with $1 and be prepared to lose $1000 (hardly a significant amount for you guys – others; bet with no money). If you get in on the long term trend at the right point, I’m willing to bet you won’t lose anything in the medium term.
When you look at your fingers, I’ll bet you’ll see perfect fib ratios – the same thing with anything – even a “cold fish” has perfect fibs! It is all around us – you just have to be able to open your eyes. Anyway, back to studying my charts and doing a bit of back testing (oops) ....
Knight Rider
  • #9,435
  • Mar 12, 2010 8:18am Mar 12, 2010 8:18am
Quoting razorboy
I think you need to be a little more specific in your parameters........what time frame were you using? Did you have any entry filters? What pairs were you playing. Did you build positions?

I back tested two pairs, daily charts, medium term MA's as trailing stops, added positions as the trend progressed and got quite the opposite result to you.
ok, we are talking about different things.
i am trading only H1 originally dibs like peter crowns described it.

i am including the slippage and commissions and add to the risk. so about 50% hit these 1:1 levels, the rest are losses.

from 100 trades i make my profits with 2 trades, so about 2% of the trades are trades above 10:1
  • #9,436
  • Mar 12, 2010 8:32am Mar 12, 2010 8:32am
Quoting pawpaw1000
Sounds pretty logical to me mate, will definately try it that way. Hope when the others ridiculed you they gave reasons? anyways, will try your way. Any ideas on what type of R:R one achieves on average with this system???

eg. if you risk 1% and you get average 20 trades per month you will make 20% or R:R 1:1... Not saying all will win but the ones which win will be BIG!
Originally Posted by PeterCrowns http://cdn.forexfactory.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
You might not have thought much about this yet, but when you finally get to be successful at this, you are going to have many trading opportunities closed to you that NOW you can just trade blithely with a small account.

Good luck, but then "you won't need it", will you?

Something to get your "JAWS" into, hey?
  • #9,437
  • Mar 16, 2010 7:36pm Mar 16, 2010 7:36pm
Trade hit my stop loss...........about 2400 pips in total on the risk free portions of the trade

Quoting razorboy
GU - about 3300 pips at the moment

4 open positions. all risk free

I am posting this not so much to say how wonderful I am at spotting a trend, but to give a little back to thread that helped me see the light........and stop staying up nights trying to figure all this crap out.............
  • #9,438
  • Mar 16, 2010 7:42pm Mar 16, 2010 7:42pm
Quoting razorboy
Trade hit my stop loss...........about 2400 pips in total on the risk free portions of the trade
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #9,439
  • Mar 16, 2010 9:19pm Mar 16, 2010 9:19pm
Quoting razorboy
Trade hit my stop loss...........about 2400 pips in total on the risk free portions of the trade
Bravo!

Yeah... long tails...

How was the final R:R you got? Just curious....

Cheers!

HT
Many share my views with me. But I don't share them with them...
  • #9,440
  • Mar 17, 2010 5:54am Mar 17, 2010 5:54am
Will have to calculate it later today. After I did all my back testing, I actually stopped calculating R:R as I was not trading single positions with DIBS so R:R became a little misleading. For example on this trade, I had 4 positions, 2 were around 850 pips, 1 around 350 and the last around 180. I

When i finished my testing, I just looked at the cumulative total and though "F$$K, thats a lot of pips", did some basic math to figure out the compounding rate on the account if I had invested the profits from each trade into future trades and left it at that. I find that the whole concept of R:R on individual trades a little misleading as they don't take into account all the little losses. I know I just need to have the stomach to sit through times when drawdown is killing me and watching profit evaporate in hopes of getting that really big win. Based on historical results, this trade was a mid sized win


Quoting HouseTrader
Bravo!

Yeah... long tails...

How was the final R:R you got? Just curious....

Cheers!

HT
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