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  • #9,341
  • Edited Mar 5, 2010 1:13am Mar 4, 2010 6:38pm | Edited Mar 5, 2010 1:13am
Quoting dim4ik42

James996 has said already ALL you need about trading DIBS and IB's.
PipMan has said already ALL you need about trading DIBS and IB's.
Hi

I'm trying to pull together more info on DIBS...have reviewed PC's postings God alone knows how many times in the past week and have today discovered James996...but I can't find PipMan (or anyone in FF that goes by that specific name posting in the thread)

[Edit - Just discovered that the name should have been PinMan - no need for anyone to waste their time finding someone who doesn't exist...like I did]

I'd be really grateful if someone could post a link to one of PipMan's posts so I can review his take on the "strategy".

PS - really bad day for me on DIBS...so I take it on the chin and move on...all part of the learning process...a really hard part...

I owe everyone on this thread a great THANK YOU...it's an eye opener to find something this intuitive after spending months (and thousands of £'s). I guess we find what we need when we're ready to understand and use it...and not before!

ColGen
  • #9,342
  • Mar 4, 2010 8:32pm Mar 4, 2010 8:32pm
Quote
This was of course just looking at the last 5 days so this does not constitute a representitve sample so i just wondered if anyone keeps a daily performance log of this strategy?
Lets talk about this shall we...Not only is five days Not a sample but Five years would Not constitute, a proper back-test/sample. Even if you included a proper back test on the four Major Pairs for five years you would just be crossing the minimum requirements. Not only does one need a proper sample size of the population they seek to data mine but other qualitative issues must be taken into account. Does anyone here really believe that the market's behavior that has been exhibited since 2007 is representative of the market we had from 2000 up to the current financial meltdown? Why is any of this important? The fact is the market do in fact change over time. The good news is that markets are made up of humans beings interacting with each other(greed/fear and herd mentality).So we can still exploit this for profit in the long run......


Back test, write up a plan...Follow the plan. You can't pick and chose your Ib's/trades your going to take.You can't avoid Losses you must embrace them. This is why most people will never be able to to this. The only way to overcome this is to back test and size down and get on with it.

I was thinking about putting on a trading conference in the Spring. Would anyone be interested? We could discuss trading Ib's on intra day and daily data the Pros and Cons. Then we could break up into small groups and do the back testing work. Then we will analyze the results finalize a plan and then trade live with real money....Depending on how many people we got we could do it in NYC at my office or any other place at the groups choosing(any ideals?)..Maybe someone can volunteer to step up and organize the whole thing.
  • #9,343
  • Mar 4, 2010 8:38pm Mar 4, 2010 8:38pm
And before anyone insults me It will be feel to all. I will pick up the tab for the whole event...Not only that but any money made off the live trades will be given to someone at attendance by lottery/draw. How cool is that....
  • #9,344
  • Mar 5, 2010 1:49am Mar 5, 2010 1:49am
Quoting james996
And before anyone insults me It will be feel to all. I will pick up the tab for the whole event...Not only that but any money made off the live trades will be given to someone at attendance by lottery/draw. How cool is that....
i would be very interested in this project!
this is a special idea to come together, traders who really want to improve on trading dibs.
  • #9,345
  • Mar 5, 2010 4:47am Mar 5, 2010 4:47am
Quoting james996
Lets talk about this shall we...Not only is five days Not a sample but Five years would Not constitute, a proper back-test/sample. Even if you included a proper back test on the four Major Pairs for five years you would just be crossing the minimum requirements. Not only does one need a proper sample size of the population they seek to data mine but other qualitative issues must be taken into account. Does anyone here really believe that the market's behavior that has been exhibited since 2007 is representative of the market we had from 2000 up...

Great post and great idea on the conference James count me in ......in fact I am happy to organise it! I will pm you and we can come up with a plan......not sure if we can do it on here or if we need set up a seperate thread or even if this is possible to orchestrate on Forexfactory maybe someone or one of the mediators/house traders can advise?
  • #9,346
  • Mar 5, 2010 6:28am Mar 5, 2010 6:28am
Quoting JamesBranson
Great post and great idea on the conference James count me in ......in fact I am happy to organise it! I will pm you and we can come up with a plan......not sure if we can do it on here or if we need set up a seperate thread or even if this is possible to orchestrate on Forexfactory maybe someone or one of the mediators/house traders can advise?

You can use a combination of Skype (for the conference call side of things) and Mikogo if you want a mediator who doesnt mind others seeing there desktop. I am sure if you wanted to go to the extremes of seeing peoples faces then having a conference setup with a camera shouldnt be to difficult either. I have done some training with Mikogo and Skype and it works really well.

Razor
  • #9,347
  • Mar 5, 2010 9:37am Mar 5, 2010 9:37am
I don't know about attending a conference. I live in North Texas, but the balance between work/home/trading is tight enough that I still haven't met with a couple of local traders that I know.

I would like to see some charts here from the folks who are using weekly/monthly to guide their IB trades.

As far as markets changing over time, I think that's a strength that the IB has over trading systems I've read. No matter what the markets are doing, an IB is an IB. It indicates indecision and occurs before a breakout. Not all breakouts have an IB, but most IBs result in a breakout.

It might also be helpful to discuss one or two other formations that pair well with DIBS (wedges for instance), although I wouldn't want to clutter up the thread too much with candlestick patterns that are discussed thoroughly elsewhere.
  • #9,348
  • Mar 6, 2010 1:50am Mar 6, 2010 1:50am
Hi! I have another question: does anybody here trade the friday dibs? Particularly, the ones that are formed at the close of the session?
  • #9,349
  • Mar 6, 2010 5:06am Mar 6, 2010 5:06am
Quoting Alexone
Hi! I have another question: does anybody here trade the friday dibs? Particularly, the ones that are formed at the close of the session?
Friday IB is still IB. I trade anyone that doesn't violate my entry rules no matter when it formed
Mystery Is The Final Product Of Ignorance. Hey! What's ma chart doin'
  • #9,350
  • Mar 6, 2010 9:35am Mar 6, 2010 9:35am
Quoting Alexone
Hi! I have another question: does anybody here trade the friday dibs? Particularly, the ones that are formed at the close of the session?
I looked at the market a couple of times this Friday, but NFP scared me off. Last Friday I traded until about 10AM EST so I don't look at the later candles.
  • #9,351
  • Mar 6, 2010 10:36am Mar 6, 2010 10:36am
I would be very interested in a skpye conference on DIBS.... COUNT ME IN!
  • #9,352
  • Mar 7, 2010 11:57am Mar 7, 2010 11:57am
markets may change, but the concepts never do

I trade FX off of the daily charts and cash equities off of a 15 second chart so I have learned to embrace the extremes of both worlds. I have been short the G/U since the end of january with 4 positions and am sitting at about 2700 pips of profit at the moment and had an equities trade for 7 cents the other morning that lasted about 30 seconds...

Keep your losses tight and figure out a mechanism to let the profit run. Sometimes a price based take profit mechanism is appropriate, sometimes a time based one is and sometimes a standard take profit level is what is needed. It all depends on how price moves. You really dont understand how easy and cheap this is to do with forex data......all the free resources out there are amazing..............try it with intraday cash equity data........

But the longer time frame you play, you better be prepared for long periods of flatness, long periods of draw down, but most importantly, you must know how to push the fcuk out of your positions when they are going your way. Regardless of how you play, your profit opportunties are going to come at you fast and furious (relative to your time frame of course) and if you hesitate, you will miss them - the back testing will give you the confidence to take your trades in situations when you are at the lowest low of your drawdown or at that point where you think the market just "can't go any higher" - kinda like that goldman sach E/U buy recommendation in December - buy at 1.44 - target was 1.55 and SL was 1.43..........(it was a bloomberg story that was posted for about 3 days) I think the trade stopped out in 4 days.....my model was calling for a short at that time............... and look where things are now



Quoting james996
Lets talk about this shall we...Not only is five days Not a sample but Five years would Not constitute, a proper back-test/sample. Even if you included a proper back test on the four Major Pairs for five years you would just be crossing the minimum requirements. Not only does one need a proper sample size of the population they seek to data mine but other qualitative issues must be taken into account. Does anyone here really believe that the market's behavior that has been exhibited since 2007 is representative of the market we had from 2000 up...
  • #9,353
  • Mar 7, 2010 12:16pm Mar 7, 2010 12:16pm
compared to other methods of analyzing and trading markets, long term dibs has one of the quickest learning curves........all you need is some patience, metatrader and a spreadsheet

And I speak from experience as I attempt to master this http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showth...6&pagenumber=2 for intraday trading of cash equities......................
  • #9,354
  • Mar 7, 2010 12:21pm Mar 7, 2010 12:21pm
Quoting Alexone
Hi! I have another question: does anybody here trade the friday dibs? Particularly, the ones that are formed at the close of the session?
Late session => no DIBS entry for me... Big money usually has moved the market already

NFP friday => almost zero chance to enter a trade this day. I rather wait for the dust to settle down and see what's next... besides, market keeps in that zig zag mode for hours before the news (big money is not playing...)

early friday IB => That's fine, IMO...

Cheers!
Many share my views with me. But I don't share them with them...
  • #9,355
  • Mar 7, 2010 12:23pm Mar 7, 2010 12:23pm
Playing IB's using daily chart...........

http://i49.tinypic.com/do43ld.jpg
  • #9,356
  • Mar 7, 2010 1:33pm Mar 7, 2010 1:33pm
Quoting bluefish
Maybe I can be a little help. Below is a screenshot of 3 different simulated equity curves. Testing time is 2 yrs, sample of close to 800 individual trades.

Blue - moving to BE after distance of 1:1 (R:R) has been reached
Pink - taking half off at 1:1
Green - No TP, no moving to BE

Starting equity 1000 EUR, fixed risk per position.
The backtest doesn“t include swap costs (rollovers).
Tested on tick data level.

Bluefish
very interesting bluefish!
good work!

a question comes up to me: where did u take profit in these examples, especially with the green curve?
  • #9,357
  • Mar 7, 2010 3:26pm Mar 7, 2010 3:26pm
The green curve is with BIG trailing mechanism [multiples of ~D1 ATR]

Quoting RussiaTrader
very interesting bluefish!
good work!

a question comes up to me: where did u take profit in these examples, especially with the green curve?
  • #9,358
  • Mar 7, 2010 4:02pm Mar 7, 2010 4:02pm
between taking half the position off at 1:1 or not is in the way it impacts your drawdown - as previously stated by PC

Removing half @1:1 smoothes the equity curve and lets you use bigger leverage. Not talking half the risk off the table at 1:1 is more profitable in the long run, but the drawdowns are more violent.........

Moving a stop to BE subjects you to the swings and retracements of the market that otherwise may turn out to be profitable trade. This comes from being "greedy" and thinking that you need to make some profit on every trade. Trades are like old wine.....they need room to breath

Ive seen this in my testing as well. Once I get my account big enought I will not be taking half the position off at 1:1.......just trailing with a largish MA as a trail


Quoting bluefish
The green curve is with BIG trailing mechanism [multiples of ~D1 ATR]
  • #9,359
  • Mar 8, 2010 2:55am Mar 8, 2010 2:55am
Quoting bluefish
The green curve is with BIG trailing mechanism [multiples of ~D1 ATR]
which green curve?
  • #9,360
  • Mar 8, 2010 2:58am Mar 8, 2010 2:58am
Sorry about the deletion. It was 2am when I was editing my original post

Quoting Razor_trader
I will run test based on both half off and just moving to BE.
Maybe I can be a little help. Below is a screenshot of 3 different simulated equity curves.
Testing time is 2 yrs, sample of close to 800 individual trades.

Blue - moving to BE after distance of 1:1 (R:R) has been reached
Pink - taking half off at 1:1
Green - No TP, no moving to BE

Starting equity 1000 EUR, fixed risk per position.
The backtest doesn“t include swap costs (rollovers).
Tested on tick data level.

Bluefish
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