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PAMA GannGrid System

  • #41
  • Edited Jan 25, 2010 8:06am Jan 24, 2010 12:43pm | Edited Jan 25, 2010 8:06am
Quoting TJPLD
You never cease to amaze me SwingMan. Don't know why I haven't vouched for you earlier. That is solid and decent work here.
I tried to get and understanding of Gann a few month ago but I found it hard to find a simple application of his rules. Everything seems very mysterious. No one explains how he came up with his Ideas. I'd guess that he found a method to derive complex angle and vibrations relations with a few lines.
To understand Gann internally and not superficially, one has to be interested in esoteric. Do you remember my photo posted in the c4 forum from my trip in Tibet?
post #3150 in http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...et#post2909494
  • #42
  • Edited 9:00am Jan 25, 2010 7:19am | Edited 9:00am
Three points:

- 1 - To "normalize" the grid it looks like you've used percentages, it seems, to make price and time equivalent (hence fixing or standardizing the 45 degree angles across charts.) You mentioned elsewhere that normalizing the scales was Cuddy's central insight. So that's the key point with your indi.

- 2 - The start time, as you said to me, affects everything that follows: maybe makes sense for the user to set the grid to the Monday opens, or even re-set daily to the US close 5 EST. I think it tends to be used for a lot of daily pivot calculations (which also have the start time problem).

But if everything is normalized, the start time of the grid is really not that big a deal maybe.

- 3 - How to trade it. Maybe looking at the grid, I just see simple crosses of the gridlines as entries:

typical price closing > nearest down gridline as long;

typical price closing < nearest up gridline as short.

Could filter by MTF: choose the trend on 4hr or hourly direction, then scalp 5/15 min gridline crosses in that direction only.

The grid just puts normalized lines in the sand, like TRO's (kreslik.com) trading a simple horizontal line. These lines are diagonal. That's the only difference. Think he posted this approach for a while as Frankenpip on FF, before being banned.

**Esoterik aspect is hilarious (Gann got a little carried away, thinking he was applying general relativity's equivalence of space and time=spacetime to trading, LOL ). Yup, my charts/trades are travelling at the speed of light, with a little bit of gravitational warp as volume picks up ("high frequency trading": Goldman Sachs is interested here).

But your normalization concept here is very sensible.
  • #43
  • Jan 25, 2010 8:24am Jan 25, 2010 8:24am
Quoting SwingMan
To understand Gann internally and not superficially, one has to be interested in esoteric. Do you remember my photo posted in the c4 forum from my trip in Tibet?
post #3150 in http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...et#post2909494
Haha excatly that was my biggest obstacle.
Beeing...well atleast half academic it's hard to convince yourself that the planets of our solarsystem influence the markets when there are 100 Trillion other Objects in our universe. What's with the recently discovered planets in our solarsystem how did Gann make his predictions without knowing about the new ones? That's what keeps me from understanding Gann the way it was meant to be understood.
  • #44
  • Jan 25, 2010 8:38am Jan 25, 2010 8:38am
Quoting TJPLD
Haha excatly that was my biggest obstacle.
Beeing...well atleast half academic it's hard to convince yourself that the planets of our solarsystem influence the markets when there are 100 Trillion other Objects in our universe. What's with the recently discovered planets in our solarsystem how did Gann make his predictions without knowing about the new ones? That's what keeps me from understanding Gann the way it was meant to be understood.
I have heard that Gann died broke.
Has anyone else ever heard that?
  • #45
  • Jan 25, 2010 8:41am Jan 25, 2010 8:41am
I'm taking a Pluto short, with stop and reverse SAR set to Saturn's orbit. (Going for a big trade).
  • #46
  • Jan 25, 2010 8:46am Jan 25, 2010 8:46am
Quoting bit9ret
**Esoterik aspect is hilarious (Gann got a little carried away, thinking he was applying general relativity's equivalence of space and time=spacetime to trading, LOL ). But your normalization concept here is very sensible.
- Are you sure what you write? Einstein published his theory 1916, and Gann developed 1908 his "Master Time Factor" ...

- About the esoteric touch of Ganns inspiration was avoid to publish. But what is esoteric...?


I quote a part of his biography:
--------------------------------------------------------
Knowledge is the way to win in the market. Starting from his early age, Gann had already realized that the natural law is the underlying driving force that moves the market. He claimed that he had spent 10 years in studying the relationship between natural law and the market. During these 10 years, he had traveled to England, Egypt and India for knowledge. When he was in England, he spent days and nights in the British Museum to study the financial markets for over a hundred years. During that time, he focused himself on ancient mathematics, geometry and astrology for inspiration and revealed their relationships with the financial markets. One of his important techniques, the Gann Cardinal Square, was said to be inspired from the structure of Egyptian and Indian temples.
After the long journey for knowledge, he concluded his findings that the financial markets are driven by the "Law of Vibration". The law once grasped, one can tell the future market time and price with high accuracy. Gann also claimed that the "Rate of Vibration" of individual stocks and futures contracts determine the up and down of their prices.
Unfortunately, the details of his theory are often kept in veil. Late comers are very difficult to grasp the essence of his techniques. In general, his theories are based on the followings: ancient mathematics, geometry, numerology and astrology.
--------------------------------------------------------
  • #47
  • Jan 25, 2010 8:52am Jan 25, 2010 8:52am
Quoting SwingMan
- Are you sure what you write? Einstein published his theory 1916, and Gann developed 1908 his "Master Time Factor" ...
Gann was before his time (travels very fast)

Gann was special, that is, "specially relative", as in 1905.
  • #48
  • Jan 25, 2010 8:56am Jan 25, 2010 8:56am
Quoting bit9ret
Gann was before his time (travels very fast)
It would be interesting to investigate whether Einstein had stolen his theory from Gann!
  • #49
  • Jan 25, 2010 9:10am Jan 25, 2010 9:10am
I have been read alot of thread from SwingMan, it really help alot.
will have a look on this strategy.
Support!!
  • #50
  • Jan 25, 2010 9:36am Jan 25, 2010 9:36am
Hey Guys,

Before you laugh too much at or about Gann, let me ask you: Has anyone ever seen, heard or read Welles Wilder's book: "The Delta Phenomenon"?

Or his "The DELTA Society International"?

I have, and in my view it isn't far in principle from Gann, but takes another tack. He claims it's completely original.

Good luck to us, http://cdn.forexfactory.com/images/icons/icon3.gif
Herty
  • #51
  • Edited 12:18pm Jan 25, 2010 11:26am | Edited 12:18pm
Quoting herty
...Before you laugh too much at or about Gann, let me ask you: Has anyone ever seen, heard or read Welles Wilder's book: "The Delta Phenomenon"?
Or his "The DELTA Society International"?
I have, and in my view it isn't far in principle from Gann, but takes another tack. He claims it's completely original.
We have in FF a thread about: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=20&page=6
  • #52
  • Jan 25, 2010 12:17pm Jan 25, 2010 12:17pm
Quoting bit9ret
...The grid just puts normalized lines in the sand, like TRO's (kreslik.com) trading a simple horizontal line. These lines are diagonal. That's the only difference.
I believe that the coloured reverse trend lines are more similar to the parabolic SAR indicator!
  • #53
  • Jan 27, 2010 7:19pm Jan 27, 2010 7:19pm
Swingman,
it seems for some reason that there are few recent posts in this wonderful concept. I believe that there is a great potential benefit to using these 45 degree angled lines to help see trend direction, continuation, or change. I hope that some who are using or thinking of using this as a component of their trading will share their ideas with us. And of course, thank you SwingMan for your tireless pursuit of sharing your ideas with all on FF. Keep up the great work. Yours indicators are true gems, as are you.
thanks again.
traderdp
  • #54
  • Edited 12:40pm Jan 28, 2010 12:06pm | Edited 12:40pm
Quoting traderdp
Swingman,
I hope that some who are using or thinking of using this as a component of their trading will share their ideas with us.
traderdp

Hello traderdp

I make experience with Gann Grid this week and will do it next month again and it seems after a few days now, that it could be implemented on trading systems in many cases. It seems to apply one argument more for market entries. I have test it on TraCop-1% few days ago and be really impressed. It shows me signals between GannHiLo and EMA9 and ever before EMA9/20 crossover. Gann Grid gives me signals furthermore when it's time to switch the TF, e.g. from H4/H1 to smaller ones (H1, M30/M15, M5). See Chart EURUSD, H4, 2010 January 28 for further details. (...and I need it sometimes on smaller timeframes, e.g. M5, in contrary of it's basic concept). See GannGrid indicator with ADX > 25, too, please.
Gann Grid gives me excellent signals when market are going in buy or sell zones. In conjunction with MTF a really superb outstanding tool, a useful and helpful indicator!

With my sincere thanks to SwingMan!

Kindest regards

Forexcube
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EURUSD, H4.jpg Size: 858 KB
  • #55
  • Jan 28, 2010 4:35pm Jan 28, 2010 4:35pm
Quoting Forexcube
...I make experience with Gann Grid this week and will do it next month again and it seems after a few days now, that it could be implemented on trading systems in many cases. It seems to apply one argument more for market entries.
Thanks @Forexcube, I agree!

Generally speaking, we use indicators to identify turning points in the charts.
- With the GannGrid we have this turning points in the chart(!), and we need indicators only to determine the entry points.

Also we do not really need indicators... I tested this days folowing 2*GG idea:
- main trend on H1
- Trading on M5 in the direction of the main trend, only if the trends match.
As example, for a Long-Trend we can take the entry level 1 ATR above the Low of the next candle(s) after the signal.
Initial SL can be taken on the GG trend line, or 2 points under the Low of the entry bar, etc. This way you avoid many false signals, and the hit ratio is very high.
  • #56
  • Edited 7:25pm Jan 28, 2010 7:15pm | Edited 7:25pm
Just programmed a little indicator do draw automatically the FiboRetracements.
Please test it.
.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: fiboautoretracements.gif Size: 12 KB
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 smAutoFiboRetracement_v1.mq4   4 KB | 1,476 downloads
  • #57
  • Jan 28, 2010 8:22pm Jan 28, 2010 8:22pm
Swing Man,

Is it better to have the grid begin on a certain date and leave it there?

Would you set the grid to begin x number of bars back?

Which do you recommend?
  • #58
  • Jan 28, 2010 8:23pm Jan 28, 2010 8:23pm
Quoting SwingMan
Thanks @Forexcube, I agree!

Generally speaking, we use indicators to identify turning points in the charts.
- With the GannGrid we have this turning points in the chart(!), and we need indicators only to determine the entry points.

Also we do not really need indicators... I tested this days folowing 2*GG idea:
- main trend on H1
- Trading on M5 in the direction of the main trend, only if the trends match.
As example, for a Long-Trend we can take the entry level 1 ATR above the Low of the next candle(s) after the signal.
Initial SL can be taken...
Where do you take profit?
  • #59
  • Jan 28, 2010 9:21pm Jan 28, 2010 9:21pm
nice work swingman. however without access to the source i cant rely on it to remain functional. My broker MBT has a very different application of the MT4 exe..... changes are constant and so is my need to recompile the indicators. Thankyou for your efforts its really nice but without the mql source it is utterly useless to me.

may the pips be with you!.........
  • #60
  • Jan 29, 2010 12:57am Jan 29, 2010 12:57am
Quoting billbss
...
Is it better to have the grid begin on a certain date and leave it there?
Would you set the grid to begin x number of bars back?
Which do you recommend?
-Where do you take profit?
- In post #37 I wrote:
----------------------------------------
An important remark:
The program use as default 120 bars back for calculations.

It is better for each time frame to give a definite date as BeginnDate, to not calculate every day other grids and other signals.

If the computer is running, the grids are automatically drawn continuously.
 ----------------------------------------

* Maybe for higher TFs (H4, D1) is better to have a definite date.
If you start every time in the month the platform, you have the same grid.

* Maybe for lower TFs (M5, M15) is better to have x bars back.
On restarting the platform you have an actually calculated max/min for the grid. But if you don't close the platform a week, the grids are drawn continuously, and maybe is better to refresh this after 1-2 days.

The indicator is not perfect yet, and it gives some bugs on the current bar. When I see this, I restart the indicator (120 bars back), and sometimes gives little differencies.

- Please don't ask for "system rules" (SLs, TPs). I'm not a trader or system developer like others, and use at the time the indicator only discretionary. I can made only remarks from my tests in the last 2-3 days.
Maybe can one of the members define a set of practical trading rules adapted to the GannGrid indicator, and a trading system.
As example, @Forexcube has tested with his trading rules the use of the GannGrid indicator, and achieved few 1000% wins in a week...!
Maybe can he help us further.
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