Trade what you see NOT what you expect

Is it so important to see from which tf a sr derives? I appears to me to depend on whether you are zooming in or out. A bottom on the 4h must be on the 1h. However a bottom on the 15m may sort of dissolve within the 4h. That's why I always take them down, i.e. never draw a sr from the 15m onto the 1h but always vice versa. Same thing for trednlines. Completely different for MA's. Am I thinking correctly? Getting confused while writing this.

The higher the TF the more weight can be given it. A bottom on a 4 hr may be far out of frame on 1hr or 15 min but yes it will be there

Absolutely. The higher the TF, the more price data it contains i.e., a daily bar has six 4H bars within it. So, as you look back over time on a weekly/daily chart and find PPZ's (Price Pivot Zones) where price has reacted many times, that PPZ becomes a much stronger one than on the lower TF's.

I have a question. How do you handle the following problem. Imagine you are drawing a S&R line on the daily time frame at 1.6300 which connects for example a high and a low (in both cases the price bounced from the line). On the daily tf the high and the low seem to touch the line before they reverse but when you switch down to the 15 min tf you will see that the highest price of the high was 6282 and the lowest price of the low was 6310. That's the reason why we are talking about S&R zones. On the 15 min tf we can get a lot of bullish and bearish PA inside that zone.

Therefore my question: How do you trade daily S&R line on the 15 min tf properly?

Well, try to keep in mind that these "zones" are where price is likely to "interact". That's what we do is look for the "most likely" areas for this to occur. They aren't "exact" prices but "areas" that should make us sit up and take notice that price is likely to change direction OR at least bounce and then continue. The higher the TF, the more likely.

Now when you're "looking" at a daily or weekly TF, it may "appear" that price bounced right off a "line" but in fact was probably only close to it in that zone. As you move down in TF's it becomes more clear to the "eye" but the actual price (number) where it turned (if it did) is still the same. At that point we let "PA SHOW THE WAY"

Also, as we get higher in TF's, the "zones" become wider. Like for me, a line drawn on a daily may be a zone of 50 to 100 pips (25 to 50 pips either way of center). But on a weekly it's more like 100 to 200 pips. (That's why I use a line graph to find mine as it "usually" is closer to the center of the zone).

Now obviously as we get down into the 15m, that 50 to 100 pip zone has a lot of ups and downs within it and that's what EO's method addresses. So we don't actually trade a daily "line" on a 15m but it alerts us to a strong zone in which many 15m trades can be taken.

I hope I understood your question correctly and that makes sense.

Hey Chris thx for your explaination.

My pleasure. Hope it helped...

This post is a response to Ken's last post on this thread.

After reading his post and thinking about what was said in it for a day I feel it necessary to respond to the attacks that were leveled at me. That's right, for those of you who may not already know who Ken was referring to it was me and that is why I feel compelled to respond.

First and foremost I don't consider myself a senior member of this thread but just someone who has been blessed by the teachings of the senior members and the feeling of camaderie amongst the participants in the thread.

Second, I did have a private conversation with Ken on Saturday as I have had nearly every week for almost a year now regarding trading. We would review some trades that I took and some that he took and try to figure out where and why each of us had taken the trades. Unfortunately Ken and I got into a heated conversation on this particular day in regards to posting of HTF charts. Ken has decided to twist what was said in this particular conversation and then use it to post that I asked him not to post any 15 min charts. What I told Ken is that it would help him and others on the thread to learn how and why EO and Infinity seem to get the tops and bottoms of moves which is the longer more profitable trades that everyone seems to have a hard time figuring out on this thread. My comments were grounded in observations of the last few months by myself as well as EO that people are having trouble seeing the forest through the trees ie: the HTF's being the forest. I wanted Ken to post more of his HTF charts over the next month in order to be able to try to help him as well as others on the thread to spot these seemingly magical areas that EO finds price turning at before the rest of us. I know I learned to trade this method by always analyzing my HTF charts whenever EO or Infinity posted any area that they would be looking at for a potential trade. This was the biggest catalyst to my learning to trade this method. The 15 min chart was just for confirmation PA to enter a trade. Sure there is the 35/50 trade and some Gump trading that is based mainly on the 15 min chart but for the most part this method is HTF S/R with PA on the lower TF for tight entry. The Ma's are used for floating S/R and this has been stated throughout the thread. In fact several months ago EO asked me to post my higher TF charts of The Mistress which I did with explanation as to how I go about spotting areas of S/R. This was what I was trying to get Ken to do.

Third, In the previous paragraph I mentioned some observations that have been made over the last few months of the traders in this thread. I have posted several trades that I had taken over the last few months that were almost all taken off of HTF S/R areas or HTF Ma's or higher TF PA. A few of these trades I posted charts on. These particular trades were extremely profitable for me but that wasn't the reason I asked people if they had taken them. I was looking for feedback to see who was looking at the HTF and taking trades that were the higher profitable trades or at least would ask me why I took the trades where I did. The response I saw was dismal at best which made me believe that the traders on this thread were concentrating on the trees and not the forest. The most recent example was from last Friday. We had a huge pin bar on the 4hr chart on EJ and when I asked if anybody had taken a long down the wick of that pin bar no one had or if they did they didn't respond. I had a couple of people respond but neither of them had taken the long and one gave me his reasoning (Chris) for not taking the trade and his reasoning was based on his personal way he wanted to trade based on HTF S/R which is fine. Now I know that EO as well as myself has stated that when we see such a pin bar we look to take a trade up or down the wick. This was a HTF PA trade that was good for about 70 pips with next to no drawdown and a small stop loss below the wick. So after seeing the lack of response to all of these posts I had the conversation with Ken about posting his HTF charts and put less emphasis on the 15 min chart.

Fourth, Ken has made it known on the thread that he struggles with getting into the longer term more profitable trades and thus struggles to be a profitable trader. Heck he even named his new thread using the word struggle. I believe and Ken even admitted to me he needs to put more emphasis on the HTF and this was the idea I was trying to get across to Ken in asking him to post his HTF charts. Unfortunately Ken must have gotten his feelings hurt and decided to post what he did.

Finally in regards to me not being willing to help, that comment was extremely disheartening to me as I have tried to review trades with Ken privately for nearly a year because if anyone deserves to succeed in this business it is Ken. Especially after all his hard work on this thread. As I have previously mentioned in this post I have shown how I go about analyzing my HTF charts for S/R and if you look at any trade that I do post I hope you would do as I did when EO and Infinity posted areas of interest and go to your charts and try to figure out why I took the trade where I did. It is my belief in learning that unless someone has to truly think for themselves they will not truly learn and understand something. I will not make trade calls but from time to time I will try to post my HTF charts on the weekends showing areas that I will be looking to take trades if anyone is interested.


PippiNole

Hi PippiNole,

Thanks for this explanation, for sure i'm interesting about your HTF, i used 1H and 4H for my HTF, but i start now to have a look at daily and weekly, more patience for sure, but better trade.

ken will eventually cool off and come back and everything will be hunky-dory again.

its only too obvious that i for one, need to focus more on the HTF's. youre right on the money, pippi.

Thank you Pippi, as always there are two sides to a story and indeed having read your side . I want to thank you for trying to do your best for all on this thread. What was a private conversation should have remained private. I value your insite and input and sincerly hope that you will continue to pst here, even though you have been the victim of harsh word and thought, none of which was deserved. That you felt that you wanted to set the record straight says mountains about who you are, many people would just walk away, I applaud you. You are due much respect and I offer mine in the small ( but selfish ) hope that you won't dessert us

Firstly, I for one, had no idea it was you that Ken was talking about, or I wouldn't have said tell them to stuff it

Secondly Ken said this in his last post "Unfortunately not all of us have the ability to be at our charts when all those levels are reached." which makes me think that he is thinking you are trading only those levels. Those levels are not reached all that often, and nobody gets like you do, 1 or 2,000 pips a week waiting and watching for just those levels.

I would certainly be interested in the way you mark up those levels, but I also think it would be helpful for everyone on the thread if you took some time at the weekend maybe to post a sample of your trades even just a few of them, so that people can analyse your reasoning behind taking those trades.

any opinions on the current resistance at 6420? im thinking its not going to overcome this ( i shouldve said "at this point"), may retrace to 6380 before turning up again... but kind of early to tell for sure.

long @ 6384
BE+20 @ 6404
closed +30 @ 6414

Great post, Pippi. Any chance you guys could talk and work this out? The rift between the 2 threads is not very practical. And, I believe, everybody would benefit if the 2 threads could be re-united.

Pippi, I totally agree with your reasoning. Many times I lept at a PA on 15 min chart and lost money because I did not look at higher TFs. This and some other advices of yours are on my memory cards.

This thread is made up by whoever contributes. Even when not trading, I enjoy reading it. Hope the two of you will soon make it up with each other.

Just looked at 4H SR and shorted GU at 15M doji at 6415.

Went long at 35/50 cross on GU also rejection of yesterdays high (PPA), also flat bottom on 1 hour and 15 min. Took some off and covered.

And the other shoe drops. As my buddy Paul Harvey says),...." Now, we know the rest of the story".

Glad you posted this Pippi...

It's always best when we understand..

Good one . I missed that.

The noise at 9.30 GMT certainly gave it a boost