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Sonic R. System

  • #9,341
  • Edited 10:41am Jan 10, 2010 10:19am | Edited 10:41am
Hi TAH . I see that you mailny use the Fibo tool of MT4 FE (others call it Projections) . I did not see you using the MT4 tool Fibo retracements , (others call it Extensions if bigger than 100%).
Pls find the same chart you have post but with a Fibo Cluster using both tools (Extension+Projection .... I use this names from CB and others).
Look how the two tools aligns together
David
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
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Click to Enlarge Name: fibo cluster 2.gif Size: 34 KB
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  • #9,342
  • Jan 10, 2010 10:50am Jan 10, 2010 10:50am
Quoting traderathome
I have: 0, 11, 24, 38, 62, 100, 161, 262, 424 and 638. The 11 and 24 are not really needed, and 38 is rarely needed.
Thank you for the numbers.

Regards,

Cigarguy
Keep It Simple
  • #9,343
  • Edited 2:16pm Jan 10, 2010 11:58am | Edited 2:16pm
Pic 1 - it's from Sonic's Manual , ex #7. I do not understand what was the entry trigger. I see L,H,HL but no Break Out (BO) of the H. So what is the trigger ? A candle closing above the dragon ? Why not to wait for the BO ?

I would have traded this like Juneman - buy stop above the high

Pic 2 - it's from Sonic's Manual , ex #7 .I do not see a "proper" wave.
What was the trigger ? Is this a "Sonic" entry ?

Again, I would be with Juneman and I would not have traded this.
Pic 3 - Perfect explanation by DD . No Long trigger here !
But according to pic 1 , based on the Manual , some enter here long .

That was one of my charts, and I stand by what I said - no entry because price had not broken the high.

Pic 4 - from our Champion Muhhamad .I see L,H,HL .
He entered at the yellow line .So what was the trigger here ?
a. candle closed above dragon but bellow the previous H (?)
b. I think it's like a re-entry , as price got support from the dragon (round green line) and the trigger was when the candle closed above the dragon.

I did trade the GBPUSD on Friday, but I bought above the high of the consolidation - I've attached my trading chart with my three TP's.

Sonic, Muhammad, and others will often wait for a bar to close above the dragon,and then place a buy stop a pips above that bar, even if price is still below the most recent high. I wait until price breaks that high. Neither is right or wrong - it is a matter of personal preference and what you are comfortable with. In the examples you find questionable (all long examples) the trigger is simply that a bar closes above the dragon, and price already has a high, a low, and a potential, but only a potential higher low in place. The trigger is a buy stop above the high of a bar close above the dragon.

You can reverse this for a short. If price makes a high, a low, and then a potential lower high, then some sonikers will enter short on a sell stop placed below the lowof the next bar that closes below the dragon, even if price is still higher than the most recent low. I wait for the break. Neither is wrong - it is a matter of personal preference and what you are comfotable with.

Attached is my chart of the long GU trade from Friday. EP for me was 1.5960, and I took profits at 1.6000 and 1.6050. You will see my fib tool with profits targets 1, 2, and 3. I only trade with two TP's. I use these fib levels to line up with actual S/R levels to pick my TP's. Others, e.g. TAH have taken to using Fibs alone as TP's. I use fibs only if there is actul S/R. If no S/R around the fibs, I look for S/R.

I think I am pure SonicR, and the only thing I do wrong is that I move my stop loss to break even too soon.

I hope this helps.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GU 1-08-2010 Sonic Long1.jpg Size: 113 KB
  • #9,344
  • Edited 1:28pm Jan 10, 2010 12:56pm | Edited 1:28pm
Quoting david4u
I need some help from the Sonic family ...
I have some misunderstandings due to some contradictions that I have found regarding entries , according to my insight .
Would appreciate Sonic, DD , TAH , M. & all sonikers comments.
Pic 1 - it's from Sonic's Manual , ex #7. I do not understand what was the entry trigger. I see L,H,HL but no Break Out (BO) of the H. So what is the trigger ? A candle closing above the dragon ? Why not to wait for the BO ?
Pic 2 - it's from Sonic's Manual , ex #7 .I do not see a "proper" wave.
What...
Hi David,


They are good questions and I wouldn't mind if one of the more experienced Sonikers interject to correct the logic below.

My thoughts on this:

Point 1. To "take early" or wait for "break above last wave"....

Before I try to answer I would first question if it's really that important to beat yourself up over this. Wouldn't you be happy with 40+ pips through a safer option, than 45+pips with a higher risk and required skill level?

My recommendation to you is play safe and wait for the break above until you can recognise PA Momentum - which is why it's classed as advance entry.

Pics 3 - the PA is meandering towards the Dragon, it could easily reverse and did.
Pic1 - has a fewer candles and is a very bullish wave. One could expect the momentum of that wave to carry the PA onwards and it did.
Pic 4 - At one point, it could have gone either way but the many HL favoured an Upwards swing IMHO.

Point 2. PIC2 - looks to bouncing off the 61.8 Fib Retracement Area and the SHI-Channel is already pointing up.
Therefore, I would regard this as a valid set-up somewhere between Trend Reversal and Continuation i.e. its a hybrid set-up.

Note, this is how I categorise these set-ups:

 

  1. Reversal Set-up - BOUNCE off an S&R or Trendline in the opposite direction of the SHI-Channel
  2. Continuation Set-up - FOLLOWS the already established trend direction
  3. Retracement Set-up - HYBRID of the above two. Its where the price retraces somewhere in the Fib 38.2%, 50% or 61.8% area from the last wave.



Pablo
p.s. I'm still learning!

  • #9,345
  • Jan 10, 2010 1:28pm Jan 10, 2010 1:28pm
Quoting ddaytrader


I think I am pure SonicR, and the only thing I do wrong is that I move my stop loss to break even too soon.

I hope this helps.
DD I think there needs to be more work done on going to BE early and placing the SL.

What gives you the idea that its wrong to go to BE early, one week worth of trading?

Pablo
  • #9,346
  • Jan 10, 2010 1:49pm Jan 10, 2010 1:49pm
Quoting ddaytrader


I think I am pure SonicR, and the only thing I do wrong is that I move my stop loss to break even too soon.

I hope this helps.

When i trade i have 3 levels of TP.

TP 1 25 pips i then move my SL to entry point and close 1 lot £152.00


TP 2 50 pips I then move my SL to 25 pips close 1 lot £304

TP 3 100 pips i then move my SL to 50 pips close 1 lot £608


Thats how i roll
  • #9,347
  • Jan 10, 2010 2:32pm Jan 10, 2010 2:32pm
Quoting Juneman
When i trade i have 3 levels of TP.

TP 1 25 pips i then move my SL to entry point and close 1 lot £152.00


TP 2 50 pips I then move my SL to 25 pips close 1 lot £304

TP 3 100 pips i then move my SL to 50 pips close 1 lot £608


Thats how i roll
Juneman, haven't you closed all by TP3 and if not, what is TP4?
If there's no TP4, moving SL to 50 pips I don't understand.
Sorry for being so thick.

Pablo
  • #9,348
  • Jan 10, 2010 4:30pm Jan 10, 2010 4:30pm
Quoting david4u
Hi TAH . I see that you mailny use the Fibo tool of MT4 FE (others call it Projections) . I did not see you using the MT4 tool Fibo retracements , (others call it Extensions if bigger than 100%).
Pls find the same chart you have post but with a Fibo Cluster using both tools (Extension+Projection .... I use this names from CB and others).
Look how the two tools aligns together
David
David,

I stand to be corrected but I believe you are using the Fib Retracement Tool incorrectly in your example.

Once a Wave has been formed i.e. A to B you look for a Retracement to point C before it continues onward.
Depending on the distance of the retracement the extension level can be targeted i.e. Short Retracement leads to strong trend and greater distance for the extension.

Examples:
31.8% Retracement can expect to reach the 162% Extension level
61.8% Retracement can expect 123%

It's at these retracement area's where I would look for the hybrid set-up as mentioned previously:

"How I categorise these set-ups:

 

  1. Reversal Set-up - BOUNCE off an S&R or Trendline in the opposite direction of the SHI-Channel
  2. Continuation Set-up - FOLLOWS the already established trend direction
  3. Retracement Set-up - HYBRID of the above two. Its where the price retraces somewhere in the Fib 38.2%, 50% or 61.8% area from the last wave." - Pablo

The example I post below didn't allow for a SonicR set-up to build before the price took off. But it shows the main principles.

Hope that helps and doesn't confuse you further.

Pablo

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: fib retracement.gif Size: 28 KB
  • #9,349
  • Edited 5:17pm Jan 10, 2010 4:50pm | Edited 5:17pm
Quoting PabloOnFX
David,

I stand to be corrected but I believe you are using the Fib Retracement Tool incorrectly in your example.

Once a Wave has been formed i.e. A to B you look for a Retracement to point C before it continues onward.
Depending on the distance of the retracement the extension level can be targeted i.e. Short Retracement leads to strong trend and greater distance for the extension.

Examples:
31.8% Retracement can expect to reach the 162% Extension level
61.8% Retracement can expect 123%

It's at these retracement area's where I would...
Maybe David is not confused, but now I am. Using the FE tool, point C should be "0". Your chart shows point C in the vacinity of 38%. Are the lines shown from the FR tool, FE tool, both tools.......???
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: fib%20retracement.gif Size: 28 KB
  • #9,350
  • Edited 5:22pm Jan 10, 2010 5:20pm | Edited 5:22pm
Quoting traderathome
Maybe David is not confused, but now I am. Using the FE tool, point C should be "0". Your chart shows point C in the vacinity of 38%. Are you using FR tool, FE tool, both tools.......??????
Hi TAH,

FR Tool is being used in the example, as per Davids example.
As you and DD have discussed before there's a variety of ways of using Fib numbers and where you plot them from. I can't say which is right or wrong as they both have a simular works/doesn't work percentages.

I prefer the FE method with SonicR set-ups but use the FR levels to see why a price might be reacting as it is doing in the C area.

Look at the GU chart below and note where I placed the FR tool.
After that wave was created the PA stopped dead at 31.8% retracement level - you can't see the meaning of that with the FE tool.
Suggests Price is going for a continuation downwards.
As time goes on, it fails to have the legs.
Then a SonicR set-up appears for a Long in a place where I can get to BE before the next FR levels come into play. If the price was to continue downwards on reaching the 61.8% Retracement level I'd be at BE.

Over analysis?
Maybe but it helps know whats going on with the PA IMHO.

Pablo
p.s. I'm still learning....... but I learn fast
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #9,351
  • Jan 10, 2010 5:48pm Jan 10, 2010 5:48pm
My EU Re-entry trade: Per attached chart. Target reached. Trade closed.
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  • #9,352
  • Jan 10, 2010 6:17pm Jan 10, 2010 6:17pm
EJ Trade in Progress: Per attached chart.
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  • #9,353
  • Jan 10, 2010 6:51pm Jan 10, 2010 6:51pm
Quoting traderathome
EJ Trade in Progress: Per attached chart.
Edit: Tp1 reached. Trade Closed. This may go higher. But also, it may pull back to Ep or lower before it goes much higher. Anyway, I am out for now.
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  • #9,354
  • Jan 10, 2010 8:17pm Jan 10, 2010 8:17pm
UJ: On M15 see that price is consolidating about the FE 38% level. On H4 see that run down had good trading activity. So, there exists the possibility of more downside. This may be worth watching to see if we get a re-entry, or a new setup.
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  • #9,355
  • Jan 10, 2010 8:53pm Jan 10, 2010 8:53pm
UJ Trade: For better or worse, asian session too boot, the trade is on.
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  • #9,356
  • Jan 10, 2010 9:15pm Jan 10, 2010 9:15pm
Quoting traderathome
Edit: Tp1 reached. Trade Closed. This may go higher. But also, it may pull back to Ep or lower before it goes much higher. Anyway, I am out for now.
First off, I'd like to thank all that contribute to this thread.

TAH, I took this trade also (My first SonicR). Just closed at TP1 for 33 pips

Thank you,

Slade
  • #9,357
  • Jan 10, 2010 9:25pm Jan 10, 2010 9:25pm
Deciding on where to place FE:

Current UJ trade is an example. The first chart shows how the FE was placed at entry. But while waiting for movement, experimenting with the placement of FE(a) and FE(c), I decided the placement in the second chart had merit. It also has the consolidation centered on the 38% level. But it aligns the 100 and 162 levels better with the Fibonacci S2 and S3 levels for this session (based on GMT time zone).

If price makes it to Tp1 on this second chart, and hesitates "too much", that is where I will decide Tp1 should be. Yes, it could go on and make a more "finality" stop/pause at Tp1 of the first chart, and I will have missed some profit. But, that is the way it is.
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  • #9,358
  • Jan 10, 2010 10:09pm Jan 10, 2010 10:09pm
I do not quite like Asian Sess Trading but Looks like.. Sonikers are having good time..in early week trading...Bravo...

Me was busy chair-ing meetings and shooting people...at work..

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_jWNhyMUpjS...s400/kitty.jpg


Sonic
  • #9,359
  • Edited 1:27am Jan 11, 2010 12:18am | Edited 1:27am
Quoting sonicdeejay
I do not quite like Asian Sess Trading but Looks like.. Sonikers are having good time..in early week trading...Bravo...

Me was busy chair-ing meetings and shooting people...at work..

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_jWNhyMUpjS...s400/kitty.jpg


Sonic

is Asia session still and jp is having bank holiday.

anyone seeing this G/J tiger ?

could it be tame or tame us..

edit. 2nd 1 hr charts show a testing of the box serverals times.

PA fails to break and rebounce back.

cold sweats..
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trade safe
  • #9,360
  • Jan 11, 2010 1:30am Jan 11, 2010 1:30am
Quoting traderathome
UJ Trade: For better or worse, asian session too boot, the trade is on.
I just closed the trade at BE. I will wait to see further what is going on....a new setup.
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