Fractal Geometry....Trading?

Here are few PLDot indicators I found on tsd forum. Hope they are of any use here. I don't know which one is accurate and hope someone will suggest.
I am yet to make any headway with this system..

I ate each words of this thread, again and again over, and lost my impatience so far, left all this emotion to the one who created this thread, I still made 50 or more pips everyday, but based on all what worked for my own, not sytematized yet, and this thread is nearly what I think it is my style, but disappointed so far,I even had a PM to Mhg, but no response till now. This is a kind of hell for me to come here to learn all what here called a share. Thought much about this words for this post, but at last have to post on.

Mgh: SORRY....I haven't checked these posts as much as I should
have had. As I explained elsewhere...I don't have the time to give
ample play to the market. For EUR/USD last P1 1.4045, P2 1.4375
and P3 1.4205...you should have come out with a profit of 75 pips.
You would have been stopped out with a Trailing Stop...should you
have used it...of 42 pips from the highest high at the time.
Your EP can at times act has a cushion and spare being stopped out
at a loss, but at the same time take away a greater profit. From the
last two explanations...you should have had both profits, but what
is more important is the mechanism of the market stretch...that is
from P1 to P2....and then the reaction from P2 to P3. This is the
market itself doing what it is suppose to do. That's all you have to
work with. All I did was try to point out this simple mechanics that
drive the market or the other way around. For the rest of you...
be very careful in trying to use the P&L. It can be very dangerous
unless you really know and understand its mechanics. And even then,
it's not the Holy Grail. My advice is still the same: Stay out of all the
markets; you probably don't belong in it. Of course, you won't take
that advice...just as I didn't. I'm an old man now...and when they
say I'm dead...I WANT A SECOND OPINION. But even then....WOW
MAN...what a fantastic trip it was...a real 'gas' and I ain't finished yet.
ciao,
tonyj

Camp followers...This only part of the lines in the P&L and
hopefully an explanation what is something that the 17th-c
French mathematican Rene Descartes suggested.

Trading is an art form for sure, and the sciences that would explain how we apply the art would be fractal geometry to understand the when of taking a signal, and physics to explain the why of taking the signal. The art is in the methodolgy, the science in the overview. Bill Williams once told me we haven't yet come up with a language to describe trading, and I didn't quite know what he meant, until I tried spelling out some of concepts behind the tactics that traders further up the food chain use.

Fractal Geometry is applicable to the "when" of trading once we understand the concept of self-similiarity, which fractal geometry epitomizes. Understand that what occurs on a larger scale is also happening on a smaller scale, but with more iterations, and in a slightly more complex way. What that should mean for traders is avoid lower time frames unless you can handle more frequent reversals and that slight degree of complexity.

Science can provide definitions to describe how things work, but it will alway be the individual with a sound plan, and the will to execute it, that leads to accomplishment. More often than not that individual is past the need to communicate those lessons.

Trout: The suggestion of "Fractal" as mentioned in these forums is a
misconception. It really doesn't belong in our trading lexicon. As long
as one understand that it is really a major support or resistance area
and nothing more, one can be safe. Measures and mass distributions
play an important part in the theory of fractals. So for an understand-
ing of the mathematics of fractals, one should be familar with Hausdorff
measure and dimensions. And that would be like a date with a nympho-
maniac...one of mental alienation. You would be lucky to end up with your
shoe laces. The word "Fractal" is used in Charles Drummond's "Point
and Line Methodology" because it's the same as the "Dotted Line".
Along with Drummonds "Dotted Line" (Williams 'Fractal"), Charlie D.
also had 'isolated high and low'...as well Phantom High and Low. The
word "Fractal" is not used elsewhere in the P&L. Only here on this post.
The wording 'self-similitary' becomes a "fuzzy logic" when in actuality
it appears in all 'time frames'. This might dismay one...but if one were
to use the word 'Fractal', it belongs with and in the "ticks" (or pips).
Another thing....the 'tick' is the only truth. Once you know how to
read the "ticks" you're on your way. Let those who want to believe it...
that all of this is "NOISE". We've all been brain washed by all those
gurus...especially the past hundred years. So be careful with the word
"Fractal". If you really want to get into Fractal Geometry...try getting
the book "Fractal Geometry" by Kenneth Falconer. Practice fanning your
lips with your index finger before you get the book.
ciao,
tonyj

thanks Tony, I agree. I don't use the term fractal, but understand that it represents the point at which an iteration -- change-of-direction -- does or does not take place. I'm only intrested in the "how and when" or execution of things, not the "what and why" . Mainly because I'm not near smart enough or talented enough to paint that vision which would explain the what and why.

If someone can reprogram the DG envelope to a MTF one you will be heading the right direction.
http://www.forexfactory.com/attachme...d=285531&d=Aug 6, 2009 4:12pm

Tony,

Thank you for posting your page of the "Lines"

Now that I have another arrow (actually 6 arrows) 5-1's, 5-2's down and up, from top to bottom, and lines 5-9 in my quill, I'll be drawing some lines, and one step closer to putting the pieces together. There is no doubt that these lines onced placed in revelant positions of the DOT, will add another and clearer "View from the Bridge"

Visual pattern fractals are obvious on every time frame, AFTER THE FACT, but it's the math ratio and the pre-fractal pattern % repetition give away, combination, that does the majic, and yes, it does repeat over and over, and it's a thing of beauty and awe when you finally see it, and find it coming home to Papa over and over again. And yes, it is the TICK that is the Be All and End All. Thanks for driving that home.

Also, thanks for the advice to give up trading, but after a decade and a half + it would (in my humble opinion) be foolish and a waste of what's left of my resources. One only fails if one gives up, so many success stories are based on this, I'm starting to be one of them.

So, it's just me and the market, dukeing it out , in the past I've been the guy on the left, but with you as my newest trainer, by default of course, I know how to stick one of those jabs in just the right place at just the right time. Oh, and yes I know that the market NEVER let's it's guard down, that's why so few traders get to raise their arm at the end of the fight.

Cheers,

LR

Hi Tony!

You have written long time ago, but if you are here please tell us about the role and use of the envelope around the Dots.
Thanks
Arado

Trout: Count me in as well for having to look up into the sky for a sign.
With an I.Q. of -2...the yo-yo has no string. When they tell me that it's
birds...not boids. I'm really puzzled....they sure choip like boids.
ciao,
Tony

Arado: The envelope around the Dots is a 3 MA of the Resistance and
3 MA of the Support (R1 and S1) used with Pivot Points. It's agency
would be similar to Bollinger.

Hi Tony!
Thanks for the explanation, it is clear now.
Arado

I hear you Tony,
I don't know much, but I know where to get a good lunch. My buddy Tony Pintozzi from Taylor Street's weber grill. You can get a brat or a saasage...or da' boad'a'dem. He is a maestro!
Ciao

hi ,can anyone post the red and white line indicator?

kudos to tony for becoming the thread starter for this p&l method... based from your previous post, when you're talking about the fractals, are you referring to crest? sorry I'm still new to this p&l thing..

Sierra: The word "Fractal" is built in the platform of MetaTrader. It's
just a 'resistance' point at it's highest in that 'run' if an uptrend...and
just the opposite at the end of a downtrend. The word "Fractal" is an
nomination by Willams. In the Point and Line Methodology invented by
Charles Drummond...all P&L'ers go by the word 'Dotted Line'...which
was used before the word 'Fractals' appeared in the markets. Also,
Charlie D. (Charles Drummond) went way beyond these 'mentions' in
such declarations...like "phantoms" and some other choice words that
had certain patterns. Charles Drummond is a genius, and it is too bad
that he is not recognized for who and what he is. Whether it's important
or not, any market in its graphical form is really nothing but a rectangular
coordinate. A run from a low point to a high doesn't follow a straight line...
or 'slope' in a total linearity. At the high 'Fractal'...the slope is zero and
is in a form of being an up logarithmic...then a zero slope...and then
a down 'logarithmic' form. The 'run' from the 'high' (if not a continuation)
or {congestion)...to the 'low', which becomes the 'support'...the market
becomes a 'down' expondential. The real 'linear line' is the inflection
between the expondential and logarithm. Now this is in reference to
the "Daily". Now you can only make your trade..whether "in" or "out"...
only during the "daily" and it's lower "time period or frames". It is here
that you as a newbie can get all fouled up because of all the brain wash-
ing by all our popular gurus. No matter how you look at it...the 'tick or
pip' is the only truth. That's where is all starts...and where it appears
in all the TIME FRAMES from itself to the yearly and infinity. THAT IS
IF WE DON'T ATOM BOMB EACH OTHER. Time will be 'infinity'...of course.
But just remember that the trading takes place only during the 'daily'
and at its feet are the lower time periods from the 'open' to the close'.
If you can learn how to read the 'ticks' (and it's tough as hell) and
keep reading up the 'time ladder'...minute etc, where each has its
own 'support and resistance'...and you register each of these events,
you'll be on your way. Good luck...
Yes...it's the crest.
ciao,
tonyj

This is code is for a MTF DG Envelope Pldot. Someone needs to add a shift forward to the code for the upper and lower band. I have no understanding of code or I would change it myself.

//+------------------------------------------------------------------+
//| MTF_PLdot.mq4 |
//| |
//| |
//+------------------------------------------------------------------+
#property copyright "Copyright 2006, Keris2112"
#property link ""
// Portions of this code are from #MTF_Moving_Average and DGBL
// Tweaked by pinoytrader
#property indicator_chart_window
#property indicator_buffers 3
#property indicator_color1 Black
#property indicator_color2 Blue
#property indicator_color3 Black
//---- input parameters
/*************************************************************************
PERIOD_M1 1
PERIOD_M5 5
PERIOD_M15 15
PERIOD_M30 30
PERIOD_H1 60
PERIOD_H4 240
PERIOD_D1 1440
PERIOD_W1 10080
PERIOD_MN1 43200
You must use the numeric value of the timeframe that you want to use
when you set the TimeFrame' value with the indicator inputs.
---------------------------------------
PRICE_CLOSE 0 Close price.
PRICE_OPEN 1 Open price.
PRICE_HIGH 2 High price.
PRICE_LOW 3 Low price.
PRICE_MEDIAN 4 Median price, (high+low)/2.
PRICE_TYPICAL 5 Typical price, (high+low+close)/3.
PRICE_WEIGHTED 6 Weighted close price, (high+low+close+close)/4.
You must use the numeric value of the Applied Price that you want to use
when you set the 'applied_price' value with the indicator inputs.
---------------------------------------
MODE_SMA 0 Simple moving average,
MODE_EMA 1 Exponential moving average,
MODE_SMMA 2 Smoothed moving average,
MODE_LWMA 3 Linear weighted moving average.
You must use the numeric value of the MA Method that you want to use
when you set the 'ma_method' value with the indicator inputs.
**************************************************************************/
extern int TimeFrame=1440;
extern int MAPeriod=3;
extern int ma_shift=1;
extern int ma_method=MODE_EMA;
extern int applied_price=PRICE_TYPICAL;
//extern int envelope=233;
//double ExtMapBuffer1[];
//double ExtMapBuffer2[];
//double ExtMapBuffer3[];
double up[];
double md[];
double dn[];
double sup[];
double res[];
//+------------------------------------------------------------------+
//| Custom indicator initialization function |
//+------------------------------------------------------------------+
int init()
{
string short_name;
//---- indicator line
IndicatorBuffers(5);

SetIndexBuffer(0,up);
SetIndexBuffer(1,md);
SetIndexBuffer(2,dn);
SetIndexBuffer(3,res);
SetIndexBuffer(4,sup);

SetIndexStyle(0,DRAW_LINE);
SetIndexStyle(1,DRAW_LINE);
SetIndexStyle(2,DRAW_LINE);
SetIndexShift(0,1);
SetIndexShift(1,1);
SetIndexShift(2,1);

/* SetIndexBuffer(0,ExtMapBuffer1);
SetIndexStyle(0,DRAW_LINE);
SetIndexBuffer(1,ExtMapBuffer2);
SetIndexStyle(1,DRAW_LINE);
SetIndexBuffer(2,ExtMapBuffer3);
SetIndexStyle(2,DRAW_LINE); */

//---- name for DataWindow and indicator subwindow label
switch(ma_method)
{
case 1 : short_name="MTF_EMA("; break;
case 2 : short_name="MTF_SMMA("; break;
case 3 : short_name="MTF_LWMA("; break;
default : short_name="MTF_SMA(";
}
switch(TimeFrame)
{
case 1 : string TimeFrameStr="Period_M1"; break;
case 5 : TimeFrameStr="Period_M5"; break;
case 15 : TimeFrameStr="Period_M15"; break;
case 30 : TimeFrameStr="Period_M30"; break;
case 60 : TimeFrameStr="Period_H1"; break;
case 240 : TimeFrameStr="Period_H4"; break;
case 1440 : TimeFrameStr="Period_D1"; break;
case 10080 : TimeFrameStr="Period_W1"; break;
case 43200 : TimeFrameStr="Period_MN1"; break;
default : TimeFrameStr="Current Timeframe";
}
IndicatorShortName(short_name+MAPeriod+") "+TimeFrameStr);
}
//----
return(0);

//+------------------------------------------------------------------+
//| MTF Moving Average |
//+------------------------------------------------------------------+
int start()
{
datetime TimeArray[];
int i,shift,limit,y=0,counted_bars=IndicatorCounted();

// Plot defined timeframe on to current timeframe
ArrayCopySeries(TimeArray,MODE_TIME,Symbol(),TimeFrame);

limit=Bars-counted_bars;
ArraySetAsSeries(sup,true);
ArraySetAsSeries(res,true);

for(i=0,y=0;i<limit;i++)
{
if (Time[i]<TimeArray[y]) y++;

/***********************************************************
Add your main indicator loop below. You can reference an existing
indicator with its iName or iCustom.
Rule 1: Add extern inputs above for all neccesary values
Rule 2: Use 'TimeFrame' for the indicator timeframe
Rule 3: Use 'y' for the indicator's shift value
**********************************************************/
{
sup[y] = (((iHigh(NULL,TimeFrame,y)+iLow(NULL,TimeFrame,y)+iClose(NULL,TimeFrame,y))*2)/3)-iHigh(NULL,TimeFrame,y);
res[y] = (((iHigh(NULL,TimeFrame,y)+iLow(NULL,TimeFrame,y)+iClose(NULL,TimeFrame,y))*2)/3)-iLow(NULL,TimeFrame,y);
}
}
for(i=0,y=0;i<limit;i++)
{
if (Time[i]<TimeArray[y]) y++;
{

up[i] = iMAOnArray(res,0,3,0,MODE_EMA,y);
md[i] = iMA(NULL,TimeFrame,MAPeriod,ma_shift,ma_method,applied_price,y);
dn[i] = iMAOnArray(sup,0,3,0,MODE_EMA,y);
}
/* ExtMapBuffer1[i]=iMA(NULL,TimeFrame,MAPeriod,ma_shift,ma_method,applied_price,y) ;
ExtMapBuffer2[i]=ExtMapBuffer1[i]+(envelope*Point) ;
ExtMapBuffer3[i]=ExtMapBuffer1[i]-(envelope*Point) ;*/


}

//



return(0);
}
//+------------------------------------------------------------------+

Hi All,

This discussion went far away from the original topic.
And is far more interesting than the initial subject :-)

Maybe it deserves a separate thread? The MT fractals is just misunderstanding - you already explained it in detail - this just messes up.
The power and details of the PnL is much, much different story, this is a separate trading world as a matter of fact. The so called "fractals", damn - ISOLATED HIGHS/LOWS or the Dotted line (who was that stupid to call it a fractal? - I played with fractal graphic formulas in early 90's, I can hardly find similarity...) is just one of elements there.

ALX

Fractals are the basis of my trading. A fractal is "a rough or fragmented geometric shape that can be split into parts, each of which is (at least approximately) a reduced-size copy of the whole".

Every day is unique but the patterns and patterns inside the patterns are not.

This is indeed different from the fractals that Williams talks about and different from the fractals in MT.

I am convinced the markets are fractal (just like many other things around us). Realizing this, studying and applying it turned my trading around from losing to profitable.

For trading it just means we see move (1) - retracement (2) and continuation (3) on each and every timeframe from the monthly to a tickchart!

In short I watch different timeframes (15 min, 5 min and 1 min). 15 min gives the general trend (direction of the trade), 5 min gives the trading setup and 1 minute is for the exact timing. I usually enter at (right) trendline breakout of the 1 min only if this coincides with something important on the 5 min as well as the 15 min so all these traders who watch this are on my side....Confluence. Something like an elevator inside an elevator inside an elevator that all start going in the same direction at some point in time.

By watching different timeframes you can find the true "breaking points" of the market.

It's important what price does at these points... a small move, up or down, can cause a tornado (butterfly effect)...which (not coincidently) just like fractal geometry is rooted in chaos theory. We see this every day in the market.

regards,
Ivo