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The DIBS Method... No Free Lunch continues

  • #8,801
  • Oct 16, 2009 3:39am Oct 16, 2009 3:39am
Quoting Razor_trader
I use daily and weekly timeframes and the bars before today to give me an insight into market behaviour. For instance if we have reacted from a Support/Resistance line and the bar is a confirmation of that point holding then my bias for the next day or week will be based on that. I dont take trades in the hope that I can make some quick pips, I take trades that setup to be held for longer.

I mentioned to a trading partner the other day my disgust at myself for taking profit on my AUD/USD trade that I had around 86/87 mark (it is now trading...
Hi Razor

You clearly are an experienced trader and sound like you've been doing this a while, well a lot longer than me anyway..

However although I can see the benefit of looking forward to Daily, weekly charts etc to gauge what the "larger picture" is, but isnt that what the 1 hour will do anyway ? Because you are following the "Trend for the Day" with half of your position and using the rest to go for the big moves, which is the same thing, except by not considering the "trend for the day", arn't you missing out on lots of decent profits along the way ? And although the "trend for the day" can be against the long term trend...your still missing out I think?

The only modification I would make to this system is when I hit my 1st target I would always at least bring my stop to break even, although personally in that situation I leave the stop a few pips in profit, then if it retraces I still make something and if it runs on then I either place a trailing stop or shadow the 20 EMA for the same purpose until it closes over that.

Anyway I still have a lot to learn And Im sure I will modify my system many times ..

Cheers


ab1
  • #8,802
  • Oct 16, 2009 6:07am Oct 16, 2009 6:07am
Quoting Razor_trader
I didnt catch them that early but I have 2 G/Js running plus a G/U running at full steam (the market hasnt taken my 1:1 which is now at 2:1).

I updated my journal with these trades.

Well done, it is these times that test your nerve. Can you now watch these trades mature further or do you take them off. Can you watch 900 become 200 or less without the fear of it going to zero. Time will tell

Razor
100% right mate...thats separates an everage trader from a very profitable trader, if yu look at the gbpjpy DIBS from 13 Oct, it went 100 pips into profit then came back to 4 pips closer to intial SL, then shot up 600+ pips, a trader who had the balls to hold is sitting in a 600+pips unrealized profit ...do yu take it or late it run...this is a mental game.(whilst another trader took profit at 1:1 and moved SL to entry level and got stopped out...now there are kicking themself)
  • #8,803
  • Edited 8:42am Oct 16, 2009 8:23am | Edited 8:42am
Hi, can anyone have a look at this senerio for me and tell me what would be normally done please.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: dibs 2.jpg Size: 120 KB


My question I guess is a simple one.

Once we get an inside bar and enter a trade, if we get stopped out is that then regarded as finished with. Or if the entry line is broken again after a few hours, like in the picture above, would anyone consider that valid.

Im Guessing not, as in theory where would it end....... we'd be entering all over the place ! So just wanted confimation I suppose, that we would be looking for a new inside bar to enter again, if that happen to be the next bar, then great ! but otherwise we wait

Oh and one more thing....The direction we trade for the day is determined in the open of the 1st bar isnt it ? So.. like if the candle opens and then closes say lower, then that day we only take short trades ? below the open. So if after a few down candles they all started going up and went back above the open line for the day , it is only at that point if we got an inside bar above the open, it would be a valid set up to go long. So I think if Im reading this right..... trend direction can change for the day as many times as you like, but set ups are only valid after an inside bar is formed either below or above the open following a closed candle.

I hope thats not too confusing ?

cheers

ab1
  • #8,804
  • Oct 16, 2009 8:38am Oct 16, 2009 8:38am
Out of interest are there any participants on this thread who are making money out of dibs?


No BS please. No need to mention figures. % gain is the best measure.

If you reply to this, please also mention over how long and approx how many trades.

..Will be interesting

Good trading to all..
  • #8,805
  • Oct 16, 2009 9:10am Oct 16, 2009 9:10am
Quoting highneb
Out of interest are there any participants on this thread who are making money out of dibs?


No BS please. No need to mention figures. % gain is the best measure.

If you reply to this, please also mention over how long and approx how many trades.

..Will be interesting

Good trading to all..
Hi

I just started this yesterday and have read a lot about it. Price action systems to me have always shown good promise. As for this one Im running it on a demo account for the time being. So far my results have been as follows:-

H1 Charts, EURUSD, GBPUSD, USDJPY, USDCHF
15/10 - EURUSD 53 pips , reached 1st target and then placed a trailing stop
16/10 - EURUSD -34 pips, Entered trade, reversed & hit my stop (by 1 pip)
16/10 - USDCHF Open trade currently, up 9 pips and rising.

Its early days yet but I think the stops should be 5 pips from the high & low of the inside bar candle and not 1 pip. But thats only my opinion. I wouldnt have lost todays EURUSD trade if that would have been the case.

Be good if there were a few more traders left on this thread but it seems that they have either got fed up and left or are doing other things....lol

ab1
  • #8,806
  • Oct 16, 2009 9:50am Oct 16, 2009 9:50am
Quoting ab1
Hi, can anyone have a look at this senerio for me and tell me what would be normally done please.

Attachment

My question I guess is a simple one.

Once we get an inside bar and enter a trade, if we get stopped out is that then regarded as finished with. Or if the entry line is broken again after a few hours, like in the picture above, would anyone consider that valid.

Im Guessing not, as in theory where would it end....... we'd be entering all over the place ! So just wanted confimation I suppose, that we would be looking for...
Its a bit late but here it is.

Daily EUR we look to be rounding for a pullback. We havent made a new high today in fact we are gaining downside momemtum. Hard luck on the first IB and really a pip is tough to swallow. Short would be a good option, but keep in mind that it may be a short lived short. EUR has been trending long nicely so there is every chance that this pullback may only be in play for a day or too (if we even do get a pullback).

Weekly we are nearing an area of previous S/R PLUS we are also nearing 1.5000 which in itself being a 000 is a tough nut to crack first time, especially on a friday when a lot of people/institutions are setting up for the weekend.

Just my 2c
  • #8,807
  • Oct 16, 2009 11:01am Oct 16, 2009 11:01am
Quoting ab1
Hi, can anyone have a look at this senerio for me and tell me what would be normally done please.

Attachment

My question I guess is a simple one.

Once we get an inside bar and enter a trade, if we get stopped out is that then regarded as finished with. Or if the entry line is broken again after a few hours, like in the picture above, would anyone consider that valid.

Im Guessing not, as in theory where would it end....... we'd be entering all over the place ! So just wanted confimation I suppose, that we would be looking for a new...

Hi ab1, i've not posted here for a while but i'll give you my 2c worth to add to razors.

I trade dibs on the 1h but i trade on/with the concept of gmma (google it) it's pretty basic stuff but i use gmma (a simple version) to establish trend and acceptable dibs entrys within that trend. Also don't underestimate good old support n resistance (if i can't move to b/e before 1st s&r i don't entre) your short hit some trouble almost straight away, it was also against the trend (as i see it) so you brought a knike to the gun fight!

kind regards

ic


nice to know your still trading well razor hope business is good
  • #8,808
  • Oct 16, 2009 11:28am Oct 16, 2009 11:28am
Quoting icarusfx
Hi ab1, i've not posted here for a while but i'll give you my 2c worth to add to razors.

I trade dibs on the 1h but i trade on/with the concept of gmma (google it) it's pretty basic stuff but i use gmma (a simple version) to establish trend and acceptable dibs entrys within that trend. Also don't underestimate good old support n resistance (if i can't move to b/e before 1st s&r i don't entre)...
Hey

Thanks for your input...not many people on here..this thread needs lifting a bit...the method has got sound principles, ie : Price Action.

I know I entered against the trend, but thought as Im only testing it at this stage Id enter every signal and see what happens.....I suppose thinking back that was a bit stupid.....like its a new system for me so Ill ignore all known sound principles like overall trend direction and S&R....lol

But I was trying to do it as Peter had designed it on H1....and as far as Im aware that means following the "DAILY TREND" rather than the over all trend...which will sometimes be the same and sometimes it will be different.

Anyway I shall plug away a bit more and see what pans out...adding things along the way.....I just didnt want to fill my screen full of MACD, RSI, Stoch's EMA's, PSAR, zig zag...etc, etc ,etc..................

cheers
  • #8,809
  • Oct 17, 2009 7:48am Oct 17, 2009 7:48am
Quoting highneb
Out of interest are there any participants on this thread who are making money out of dibs?


No BS please. No need to mention figures. % gain is the best measure.

If you reply to this, please also mention over how long and approx how many trades.

..Will be interesting

Good trading to all..
WHY...if yu doubt the method do your own backtesting, my figures or anybodies figures does not guarantee yu success with the method. Might sound rude but its the truth
  • #8,810
  • Oct 17, 2009 7:51am Oct 17, 2009 7:51am
I had a bad week using the DIBS, or should I say attempting to use the DIBS. This was been my fourth week at it, and on Tuesday I was up a few bucks, but it was downhill from there. I'm reading everything I can, I'm getting up at 2:00 in the morning to catch the markets, but I'm still losing.

I now realize that one fundamental mistake was not incorporating the spread into my buy/sell calculations. This lead me to getting stopped out earlier than I should have been, because I was getting into the trades too soon.

The other reasons are the classic mistakes; improper money management (too large of a position), not looking at the big picture before entering a trade, looking at too many pairs rather than just four or five, and moving stops when the trade is going the wrong way.

Dumb, dumb, dumb. Bad dog.

The other biggie is not keeping proper track of my trades - and I know better than that. So, last night I sat down and came up with my DIBS trading log. I will hand-write the numbers in, because I think it will force me to slow down a little and really look what happened. I am attaching a copy the log sheet.

I may even force myself to show them to my wife at the end day and explain to her my day's analysis. She definitely won't buy any b.s.

Just for grins, I also attaching the calculator I use to set my points. It now includes the spread.

I know I can beat this thing.

MurphyMan
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf DIBS log v1.pdf   4 KB | 1,511 downloads
File Type: xls DIBS calc v1.xls   14 KB | 754 downloads
  • #8,811
  • Oct 18, 2009 1:10am Oct 18, 2009 1:10am
Hey James,

Quote
Thanks for your very useful posts. I am looking to implement a trading schedule just like yours, using a system based on the 1H bars that I developed myself.

What kind of sleeping schedule/exercise, and/or diet do you use that gives you the stamina for such a long work day, on a consistent basis. Too many times, waking up at 2:00 AM, I cannot last past 7:30 AM EST.

Also, what kind of activities do you do to stay sharp while waiting for the 1H bars to complete. I personally do not plan to watch charts or my P&L screen during that time.

Cheers,

Jacques...

Real good questions.. I try my best to get as much sleep as possible before London opens. But as you are finding out it's hard. Basically trading these time frames is the same as taking a 3rd shift job with major overtime thrown in. I've been doing this for many years and the truth is it never becomes natural. I'm fortunate in the fact that I employ a couple of interns, having them around helps greatly. As far as staying in shape goes my suggestion is to go buy a trend mill and start taking major doses of liquid vitamins. lol. Joining a chat room or skypi room can help. Talking to others during the night makes the time fly bye faster. In the end I have always found that proper trading is very boring. I also spend very little time looking at the charts and gave up thinking in terms of money a long long time ago.
  • #8,812
  • Oct 18, 2009 5:09am Oct 18, 2009 5:09am
Quoting highneb
Out of interest are there any participants on this thread who are making money out of dibs?


No BS please. No need to mention figures. % gain is the best measure.

If you reply to this, please also mention over how long and approx how many trades.

..Will be interesting

Good trading to all..
I will be blunt and I make no apologies at it.

I doubt there will be a huge number of people who are going to do your homework for you but in light I will add this.

The core concept of making gains in DIBS is the longevity of a hold on positions, therefore the longer you can hold the better. Alot of people, myself included just to clear that up, may not be having the success that would make DIBs is a formidable part of there trading model, but that is not because DIBs isnt successful, it is just that from a holding POV it can be difficult to watch pips that most would bank, vanish for to nothing.

On that however, backtesting has been done, Joel and Peter have vouched for the system and Nathan did extensive testing to show it has a decent edge over a vast period. The traders who are giving this ago have done there homework and are working towards a goal that I expect will take years to achieve. DIBS is one of those hard grind methods, but the aforementioned traders have done this over 20 something years. That gives you an idea as to how robust it can be when you hit the big trades. If you cannot, or are not willing to work on getting the big trades then forget it.

I tire of the lurkers who for what ever reason feel the need to get numbers in order to short cut a process, more or less without doing any reading on the thread, just to make a decision they are most likely not going to stick to anyway. Face it, unless you are prepared to do some reading and homework your chances of getting anything are slim to none. Blunt, yes I told you.

To add to that I will say that those who have done backtesting, extensive or otherwise, manually or with an EA have noted that over a period of a year or more the system works. To add to the edge they have done there homework and worked out some filters that help remove the trades that are less likely to net good gains. Just look at the AUD or EUR US crosses, they have been quite free flowing with dozens of areas that have IBS that havent seen the market since. What does that show you??? What does that mean to you ???

If you have done testing over a period of time then you will understand that results do not manifest themselves immediatly and that along with the homework (pre-requisite) you also need to do the field work for longer than a week or 2. You need to take more than a loss or 2. If you cannot do this then seriously there is nothing here for you because in short the model doesnt produce 99% wins, it doesnt guarentee your 1K deposit will magically turn to 20K in a year (I could have said a million because thats what most expect). If you want some results do the work required because what 1 traders tells you means squat unless you mirror them in all aspects, if not then thats fine, im sure I will see you and others at other threads asking the same question.

Im not normally a tough nut and yes I will be helpful to those who wish more than others work handed to them on a silver plate just to ease them into an environment that is anything but easy.

I hope you find what your looking for either here or somewhere else

Razor
  • #8,813
  • Oct 19, 2009 3:57am Oct 19, 2009 3:57am
Well said Razor! To Quote PC: 'Win rate is not the most important factor in finding a good trading method.......profit potential/risk is!' (more or less that's how he said it I think!?)
Best,
J


Quoting Razor_trader
I will be blunt and I make no apologies at it.

I doubt there will be a huge number of people who are going to do your homework for you but in light I will add this.

The core concept of making gains in DIBS is the longevity of a hold on positions, therefore the longer you can hold the better. Alot of people, myself included just to clear that up, may not be having the success that would make DIBs is a formidable part of there trading model, but that is not because DIBs isnt successful, it is just that from a holding POV it can be difficult...
  • #8,814
  • Edited 6:50am Oct 19, 2009 4:20am | Edited 6:50am
There was a problem in the Short Sell side. This is the correct one.
Sorry about that.
Murph
Attached File(s)
File Type: xls DIBS calc v1a.xls   15 KB | 1,030 downloads
  • #8,815
  • Oct 21, 2009 8:40am Oct 21, 2009 8:40am
Quoting Fxtrader
Did yu catch the DIBS trades this week gbpjpy long from 142.04, gbpusd long from 1.5850, eurusd long from 1.4851, usdchf short from 1.02720, usdjpy long from 90.15...all trades should still be running now with more than 900pips of unrealized profit
DIBS racking some pips...gbpjpy and cable, swissy and usdjpy stopped for a profit.
  • #8,816
  • Oct 22, 2009 10:04am Oct 22, 2009 10:04am
Quoting Fxtrader
DIBS racking some pips...gbpjpy and cable, swissy and usdjpy stopped for a profit.
Nice work. I still have trades for G/J opened from 142.63, 144.61 and 148.06 and G/U 1.6418. They are not DIBs trades but they do outline a good point with holding trades.

Well done on the profits mate

Razor
  • #8,817
  • Edited 12:32pm Oct 26, 2009 12:31pm | Edited 12:32pm
Something I noticed from both PC charts and others when taking dibs. Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but there are 7000 posts...........

Say for example its a down day - you get an inside bar and are going to go short - what have noticed is that on some of the charts, the entry candle sometimes goes above the high of the DIB candle (remember, we are still going short) - is this still considered a valid entry.

The first chart - a PC classic is a text book entry

The second chart - look at the last entry - a short. the high of the bar after the inside bar exceeds the high of the inside bar. Is this still valid?

Third Chart - 4th entry - I see an inside bar, price moves above it, then stays below the daily open and then falls thru the low of the DIB three candles later after exceeding the high of the DIB...im not sure this is a kosher DIB entry

Fourth Chart - two short entry set ups - two dib bars - down days and high of DIB is exceeded before short trade is entered.

Am I being too picky with my entries.

thanks for your input
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: DIBS Perfect Hourly.jpg Size: 424 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: Snap Inside Hourly Breakouts V British Pound.jpg Size: 397 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: Snap Inside Hourly Breakouts VI Euro.jpg Size: 395 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: Snap Inside Hourly Breakouts II.jpg Size: 217 KB
  • #8,818
  • Oct 27, 2009 2:25am Oct 27, 2009 2:25am
Hi, If you are looking for breakouts of the inside bar on the downside it doesn't matter if the IB is broken north and vice versa for for long trades.
Best,
J







QUOTE=razorboy;3176852]Something I noticed from both PC charts and others when taking dibs. Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but there are 7000 posts...........

Say for example its a down day - you get an inside bar and are going to go short - what have noticed is that on some of the charts, the entry candle sometimes goes above the high of the DIB candle (remember, we are still going short) - is this still considered a valid entry.

The first chart - a PC classic is a text book entry

The second chart - look at the last entry - a short. the high of the bar after the inside bar exceeds the high of the inside bar. Is this still valid?

Third Chart - 4th entry - I see an inside bar, price moves above it, then stays below the daily open and then falls thru the low of the DIB three candles later after exceeding the high of the DIB...im not sure this is a kosher DIB entry

Fourth Chart - two short entry set ups - two dib bars - down days and high of DIB is exceeded before short trade is entered.

Am I being too picky with my entries.

thanks for your input[/quote]
  • #8,819
  • Oct 28, 2009 1:54am Oct 28, 2009 1:54am
Hi All

Been laying low for a few weeks, considering things with Forex, but back in action again with Dibs !

Just like to say that I feel for you guys/girls that are using this method and not on the GMT time zone. I mean its hard enough getting up pre 6am living in London, but to be up at like 1am...wow, you deserve a medal. It must be real tough when youve had a bad week...you must be thinking is it all worth it ! So you have my total respect.

Going back to basics with this system though, Have I read it wrong here but could some of the failures that we experience be attributed to that some of us (meaning me) are taking IB's that are not valid. In post #1, I thought it said that we only take Long positions if the IB occurs above the open for the day and vise versa for short. So if the opening candle lets say has the open at the bottom of the candle and has risen in the first hour, shouldnt we then only consider IB's above that open and only go long for example that day? or have I read that wrong.

Reading a few recent threads I just wanted to add that for a system to be successful its all about Risk/Reward Ratio & money management.

Risk Reward because......If you find any system that will give you only 50% wins and apply a 2:1 Risk/Reward Ratio, then you will not lose. ie : 10 trades at say $100 each, 2:1 RR, with 50% wins = $500 profit.....

And money management so you dont blow your account due to opening to large a position and getting a margin call, should the trade go against you. Ive done that before and then seen only a few moments later it reverse again and go into massive profit. So my previous poor MM has cost me, because I tried to increase my account to quickly.

I always remember reading that with only a $2000 account and only making 10 pips per day using just 2% MM, your account will grow to $250,000 in one year....still got to prove that one out in reality , but on paper the math is true.....

Anyway had some profit yesterday from the EURJPY, let see how dibs performs for the rest of the week Good luck !

ab1
  • #8,820
  • Oct 28, 2009 2:10am Oct 28, 2009 2:10am
Just to elaborate on my previous post, the picture below shows the open for today, marked with a magenta line....so the way I read the rules are that we are only looking for inside bars the give us long oppertunies for the day.... or can you take trades if the price goes short below the open line ? I just felt that if the price is bouncing above and below the open its showing a ranging market and would be a weak market to consider entering. I though we were looking for a strong move from the open so set the direction for the day.

Cheers


ab1

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