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NEW MT5 Seriously Stuffed For Traders Platform

  • #161
  • Sep 14, 2009 6:44pm Sep 14, 2009 6:44pm
does anyone know if mt5 will have a pencil tool so you can draw freehand on the screen. please tell me it does
  • #162
  • Sep 15, 2009 12:58am Sep 15, 2009 12:58am
Quoting aquaart
According to the euromoneyFX survey in May 2008, 80% of the 3.98 trillion dollars traded was completed by 10 of the world's biggest banks.
I would suggest that DOM in FOREX is only relatively accurate if missing the data of those banks. Cause how can 20% of the market determine what the 10 big banks are going to do?

The reason is, that the people who move the market (top 10 banks) with huge volumes, do not release the trading volume that they do. Why? Because when analysised it would give away to others how the bank did its trading / how they...
No, i know Depth will not be usefull, it wouldn't be useful even if all the players were included, on the other hand transacted volume would be.
What i mean is that it makes order entry a lot quicker, for someone like me trading very fast TF's, that is all.
Biggest joker
  • #163
  • Sep 15, 2009 7:25am Sep 15, 2009 7:25am
Quoting baron193
Hey Aqaart, i've just come across your thread, i use the "hedge" trade in a similar way, and find it very usefull, though it is definetely not for everyone.
specially is not for people that don't spell "EDGE" right...
fuck ODL
  • #164
  • Sep 15, 2009 2:23pm Sep 15, 2009 2:23pm
I really like the fact that MT5 is going to have a price ladder built into it. Every decent system must have one.
Generally MT is a platform aimed at retail customers most of who have little expertise in the field.
  • #165
  • Sep 16, 2009 2:46am Sep 16, 2009 2:46am
Quoting pt2009
specially is not for people that don't spell "EDGE" right...
It would be the wrong way, IF, i was trying to spell: "edge"
...moron
Biggest joker
  • #166
  • Sep 16, 2009 6:00am Sep 16, 2009 6:00am
Quoting eric
I really like the fact that MT5 is going to have a price ladder built into it. Every decent system must have one.
Generally MT is a platform aimed at retail customers most of who have little expertise in the field.
I would have to agree with you on "MT is a platform aimed at retail customers most of who have little expertise in the field."

However, I have looked at 7 different platforms, I would have to say that MT kicks butt for charting capabilities, and the upskilling of the "platforms" ability because of scripts and upskilling of trading because of EAs and indicator programming ability makes it worth it.

My indi's self programmed, work very well. Not achievable on say FXCM's forex trading station II, nor saxo bank's platform. In dealbook 360 it is possible, but definitely more difficult, with a lot fewer programming examples available on the web. Also more expensive if you want to pay someone to programme for you if using other platforms.

EA and indi programming to produce better trading make MT4 worth it. It is the sole reason I like MT4. Hence if the use of EAs is reduced by this one position system at an MT5 broker, I may as well cross to some of the other platforms that allow for trading in both directions without being forced to recognise profits at early points in time.
  • #167
  • Sep 16, 2009 6:37am Sep 16, 2009 6:37am
Quoting pt2009
Edgers you can always edge by using different pairs. For example go long on audusd and short on nzdusd (directly correlated pairs) - or long on eurusd and long usdcad (inverse correlation).
The best correlated pair I have found is the CHFJPY and EURJPY. AUDCHF and EURAUD also has good negative correlation. Basically anything with CHF and EUR in complimentary pairs will have good correlation / negative correlation.

Quoting pt2009
This said I'm a trend follower and I believe in trend following as the only way to make quick profits with small risk.
I follow trend on 3 time frames. As you could agree, the trend on the 5-min TF is not always the same on the 4-hr TF. Hence, the ease in not having one position only system in the MT5 platform.

Quoting pt2009
About MT5 I suggest that we wait for the release before talking about it. There's no point right now because none of us has 100% information on the new platform.
Or maybe 12000 traders that are obviously at least interested in the presently not so hot MT5 platform and viewing this thread may persuade them to make changes for non-USA based brokerages. After all there are a few of us Aussie, Belize, Britian, British Virgin Islands, Canadian, Chinese, Cyprian, Euro group, Israelite, Japanese, Kiwi, Middle Eastern, Norwegian, Russian, Swiss and Ukrainian. (and they are MT4 brokerages that I know of).

If you would like a list of MT4 brokers that do not have the one position per instrument MT5 broker platform see this link
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=174626
  • #168
  • Sep 20, 2009 7:11pm Sep 20, 2009 7:11pm
Quoting supermatt
does anyone know if mt5 will have a pencil tool so you can draw freehand on the screen. please tell me it does
All I know supermatt is that there is significant increase in the number / variety of tools available for the platform.
  • #169
  • Oct 7, 2009 4:05pm Oct 7, 2009 4:05pm
Quoting aquaart
The capabilities of MT5 were released in a review.

The creators of MT5 have elminated the capability for a trader to complete a small counter trend trade, unless you are willing to pay another spread to re-join the longer term trade you were in.

What the third post's picture below really shows, is that the opening of a short term SELL Trade, must be accompanied by the closing of an your BUYs.

However if the original BUY Trades were going long term, you are now required to overcome / pay commissions or spreads, to close, then re-open...
I would like to make a correction. Gallant FX is NOT NFA regulated. They utilize a custodian, Sunspot Capital, who holds all client funds.
  • #170
  • Oct 9, 2009 8:09am Oct 9, 2009 8:09am
Quoting fxprof74
I would like to make a correction. Gallant FX is NOT NFA regulated. They utilize a custodian, Sunspot Capital, who holds all client funds.
Thanks for that. Correction made, to unknown country of origin with GMT+1 setting. On the MT5 Broker Free List / MT4 Brokers List found at the bottom of first post.
Found here - http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...45&postcount=1
  • #171
  • Oct 9, 2009 9:35am Oct 9, 2009 9:35am
I have done my best to get away from MT4. Now looking at other charting providers that are not a broker as well.

I am using netdania chartstation ATM very happy with it. I am also looking at Amibroker.

cheers
  • #172
  • Oct 9, 2009 11:18pm Oct 9, 2009 11:18pm
  •  onu
  • | Joined Feb 2006 | Status: superior senior member | 746 Posts
@ aquaart

regards your mt4 broker list on post # 1

FXCM Germany www.fxcm.de/ isnt a mt4 broker
  • #173
  • Oct 10, 2009 9:56am Oct 10, 2009 9:56am
Quoting onu
@ aquaart

regards your mt4 broker list on post # 1

FXCM Germany www.fxcm.de/ isnt a mt4 broker
Yes you are right. I made a wrong assumption, because FXCM Australia Britian and USA all have / had MT4 available. Rather than trying to filter through the German I assumed that they would have MT4 too.
My mistake obviously.

Here is the first post with corrections http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...45#post2791245 and the MT4 Broker / MT5 Broker Free List is improving.
  • #174
  • Oct 10, 2009 10:12am Oct 10, 2009 10:12am
Hi aquaart,

Poltekfx has closed down. Have a look here http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/public...w.poltekfx.com.
  • #175
  • Oct 10, 2009 10:23am Oct 10, 2009 10:23am
Quoting mattrader
Hi aquaart,

Poltekfx has closed down. Have a look here http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/public...w.poltekfx.com.
Thank you
This MT4 broker list / MT5 broker free list is getting better by the minute.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=174626

If anyone knows of an MT4 broker that does not use MT5 as well, please feel free to tell me to put them on the list. Also tell me what country they are based in. Thanks
  • #176
  • Oct 13, 2009 7:40am Oct 13, 2009 7:40am
Quoting euclid
I can't believe all the nonsense I'm reading in this thread.

The NFA restrictions and MT5 aren't part of a conspiracy. The NFA have imposed FIFO. This is incompatible with MT4, hence you end up with stupid restrictions like not being able to have both long and short pending orders in MT4. MT5 does support FIFO, so there won't be any stupid restrictions. You will be able to have both long and short pending orders and buy and sell however you please.
I have to take back some of this. I have tried the MT5 beta and it does not yet properly support FIFO. Which does make it as bad as MT4 with FIFO. As it stands you need two accounts to do in MT5 what you can do in other trading platforms. It's hard to believe it will be released like this since it is supposed to be able to support stocks and futures too. We'll have to wait and see.
  • #177
  • Edited 2:30am Oct 14, 2009 2:21am | Edited 2:30am
Quoting euclid
I have to take back some of this. I have tried the MT5 beta and it does not yet properly support FIFO. Which does make it as bad as MT4 with FIFO. As it stands you need two accounts to do in MT5 what you can do in other trading platforms. It's hard to believe it will be released like this since it is supposed to be able to support stocks and futures too. We'll have to wait and see.
MT4 can be made to support FIFO / NFA rulings, as it is back end execution of the trades that is the main problem. This is evident with IBFX supposably having a solution that manipulates the platforms unofficial statement to produce the "official" trading statement from IBFX central.

Hence the question must be asked, WHY does the MT5 amalgamate all your open trade orders into one overall position?

The simple reason must be that it requires the taking of profits or losses at the same time that new orders are opened. Otherwise they would not be able to amalgamate the trades into one overall position.

This normally does not affect trading too much, as can be seen in picture below (fantastic). However, as is shown in post 28, the one position system increases the likelihood of loss when a losing nedge scenario is completely demonstrated.

In MT4 you could operate at break even for that particular area, but in MT5 it must operate at a loss. Hence the increase in loss for the trader and or increase in profitability of retail market maker MT5 brokers or the opposing trader (often the bank).

This is why I have said that MT5 brokers are a downgrade for profitability even though there is an increase in the tools available.

This will force people like me, to change trading tactics, which sucks.

Hence, this MT5 one position system affects traders who are successful nedgers (that is people who have no need for a stop loss). No stop loss equals no loss, at the risk of a greatest loss, that is losing an entire account if not monitored properly. As a result it affects people using multiple EAs or EAs along side manual trading.

If IBFX's back end is successful, then it shows that trading in opposing directions with separate positions being held, whilst being FIFO / NFA compliant is possible. There is no need for a 1 position system as MT5 / MT5 brokers will have.

A list of MT4 brokers / MT5 broker free list:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=174626

If anyone knows of an MT4 broker that does not use MT5 as well, please feel free to tell me to put them on the list. Also tell me what country they are based in. Thanks
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  • #178
  • Edited Oct 15, 2009 5:45am Oct 14, 2009 6:05am | Edited Oct 15, 2009 5:45am
In trialling MT5, I have found that it is exactly how I said trades would be executed as hopefully the pics below demonstrate.

First I placed a Buy trade. As can be seen.

Then placed a sell trade.

Trade history page shows exactly what I had stated earlier. That take profit on the buy trade would be recognised. As a result a loss is recognised on the buy trade, even though most people would want the buy trade to remain open in this case.

Therefore I was unable to scalp 5 pip in the short direction without first taking a loss on the buy trade. And then re-entering a buy trade at a lower value. This is the extra spread / commission earned for the MT5 broker.

This is pathetic.

This is a loss of trade functionality.




However, the pluses to the platform:

  1. are greater number of indi's, which for MT4 can be found everywhere in these forums anyway
  2. MQL5 and MQL4 at first glance appear similar, so for a little bit above useless programmer like myself I should be able to work it out
  3. a greater number of timeframes (which for me the 6min, 10 min, 12 min, 20 min, 2 hr or 3 hr might be of some use).
  4. In my rush I forgot to mention the chart within chart EA. This is a very good feature that I could use regularly. You can have the same symbol different TF or different symbol altogether. This is the edit.
  5. Other than that, the buttons you click on are prettier.

In the trial the one thing that might make MT5 worth it is not functional in this demo environment, Depth of Market.

Other people are not impressed with it either. If MT5 is an upgrade what are other people saying about it?


First picture shows an active buy trade.
Second Picture shows placing of the second sell trade.
Third picture shows the profit / loss being realised a direct result of trades being amalgamated into one position (to a zero position). Notice how this incurs a loss on the overall balance.
Fourth picture shows how the trades were actually executed.


The Way to Overcome This
To overcome this I would trade a larger sell position so that the sell takes everything from the buy trade and then enters an actual trade in the short direction. Note that the amount of the active sell trade is the larger volume of the sell trade minus the smaller volume of the original buy trade. Hence the amount being traded in the sell direction is smaller than what I entered into the order panel.

Then I would need to enter a new buy trade (not shown in pictures below) at my take profit point of my now reduced sell trade. This Buy trade should be the same that I entered on the sell panel. Therefore I should have a buy trade left over.

However, I then run this buy trade to my 1st buy trade target. This will allow me to recover the losses that were recognised when I first entered into the sell trade. In the end I achieve the same number of pips as with individual trades being executed with MT4 brokerages, but I had to do it with 3 trades instead of 2.

However, this last buy trade is where the extra spread and or commission is being paid. In other words MT5 brokers will have upgraded because it upgrades their profitability.

Do NOT trade with an MT5 broker unless trades are allowed to be individually managed. That is MT5 needs to lose the single position system.

MT5 is downgrade for ease of profitability, an upgrade in difficulty of trading and an upgrade for broker profitability.

If a single brokerage (IBFX), can make MT4 compliant whilst keeping full trading functionality, why can't metaquotes the original developers make individual trades NFA / FIFO compliant.


Here is an MT4 Broker List that is MT5 Broker Free.

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  • #179
  • Oct 14, 2009 11:25pm Oct 14, 2009 11:25pm
not much-and it will be fun. maybe 1-to-2 nights. unless its a damm Friday evening! God I hate the weekends.
FF = Forex Faggots
  • #180
  • Oct 15, 2009 2:18am Oct 15, 2009 2:18am
Can you take this seriously?
Attached Image
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