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  • #141
  • Sep 7, 2009 10:30am Sep 7, 2009 10:30am
Quoting aquaart
I would have thought these spreads were pretty decent
EU 1.5 pip
UJ 1.4 pip
UCh 2.3 pip
AU 2.2 pip
thanks aquaart for your replies.

seldom look at 5 digit brokers, so am a bit confused at first. will check with them to get more info. thanks
  • #142
  • Sep 7, 2009 2:51pm Sep 7, 2009 2:51pm
Quoting pt2009
I guess Feardox meant to say that same issues where posted with the change from MT3 to MT4....... and I totally agree with him.
I think that when they can't get results, people blame the platform or the broker, but I know from experience that people loose because of the complexity of trading a market that it's far from being a game..
A platform can change, hopefully in better. Rules can change, not always in better. We need to adapt in order to have winning opportunities.

Alex
Nice mantra, Alex. What in your mind makes you think the Americans have such foresight? Newton put down physics in formulas, the meaning of which could only be discerned by the aristocracy. This effectively made the lower classes slaves, as their world understanding could only come from approved sources.

How is a new layer of restriction going to empower you? Isn't that counterintuitive?
  • #143
  • Sep 7, 2009 11:27pm Sep 7, 2009 11:27pm
Quoting pt2009
I guess Feardox meant to say that same issues where posted with the change from MT3 to MT4....... and I totally agree with him.
Alex, I think you miss the difference.
The change from MT3 to MT4 expanded trading possibilities, however, it changed the way that trades were viewed and placed. The change form MT3 to MT4 changed a large number of things but it did not actually place restrictions on trading. As a matter of fact in expanded them



The change from MT4 to MT5 actually restricts certain types of ligitimate trading.
For example:

  1. Can't place a pending Sell and Buy orders at the same time (otherwise known as breakout trading).
  2. Can't launch both a sell and buy at the same time (otherwise known as a double Martingale trading).
  3. Will not be able to use multiple EAs on the same instrument if they use same lot sizing.
  4. Will not be able to trade manually and with an EA on the same instrument, if you use same lot sizing.

Sure some people do not understand the benefits of a temporarily neutral positions, but there are benefits to those that are smart enough to use them effectively. Temporarily neutral means you are not losing your original gain.

  • #144
  • Sep 8, 2009 7:13am Sep 8, 2009 7:13am
Quoting rossiya
Nice mantra, Alex. What in your mind makes you think the Americans have such foresight? Newton put down physics in formulas, the meaning of which could only be discerned by the aristocracy. This effectively made the lower classes slaves, as their world understanding could only come from approved sources.

How is a new layer of restriction going to empower you? Isn't that counterintuitive?
fuck ODL
  • #145
  • Sep 8, 2009 7:26am Sep 8, 2009 7:26am
Quoting aquaart
Alex, I think you miss the difference.
The change from MT3 to MT4 expanded trading possibilities, however, it changed the way that trades were viewed and placed. The change form MT3 to MT4 changed a large number of things but it did not actually place restrictions on trading. As a matter of fact in expanded them



The change from MT4 to MT5 actually restricts certain types of ligitimate trading.
For example:[list][*]Can't place a pending Sell and Buy orders at the same time (otherwise known as breakout trading).[*]Can't launch both...

Aquaart,
I understand your point, and I understand these changes are going to affect your trading style.
Unfortunately rules have been made and, like it or not, the way that MT5 has been studied has a reason and a very precise scope. That is to follow those rules.
I don't think that you guys should complain about MT5 but about those rules.
This said, I'm no MT5 fan or anything.
My point is that, I'm happy if you are smart enough to benefit from edging strategies, but I seriously doubt about the profitability of martingale systems and similar. I see trend following as the only way to success. This doesn't mean I'm right. As you say, I might be missing a few points..
have a nice day
Alex
fuck ODL
  • #146
  • Sep 8, 2009 10:06am Sep 8, 2009 10:06am
  •  onu
  • | Joined Feb 2006 | Status: superior senior member | 746 Posts
"....but I seriously doubt about the profitability of martingale systems and similar..."

I don't doubt, u just need an adaptive one and a lot of capital..

http://pceumaxgt1.mt4live.com/

that's the main reason for the new rules in favor of USA brokers

Thx the heaven, i m a free human being, no NFA slave and i can trade wherever i want in this world!
  • #147
  • Sep 8, 2009 7:06pm Sep 8, 2009 7:06pm
Quoting onu
"....but I seriously doubt about the profitability of martingale systems and similar..."
http://pceumaxgt1.mt4live.com/
For Alex,

The point is, that there are many MT4 brokers around the world, not just NFA regulated ones in the USA. (So submitting to NFA for the non-USA brokers is not a requirement.) On the basis that MT4 already had the ability to place trades in both directions, why couldn't they keep that ability for MT5 in the rest of the world?
Programming would not have been any more difficult... ...they already have the logic.
The simple reason is the link the ONU gave above...


ONU
Thanks for the LIVE results link above. Maybe it really does demonstrate why MT5 has been developed without the trade versatility of MT4.
  • #148
  • Sep 9, 2009 1:57am Sep 9, 2009 1:57am
Quoting pt2009
Aquaart,
I understand your point, and I understand these changes are going to affect your trading style.
Unfortunately rules have been made and, like it or not, the way that MT5 has been studied has a reason and a very precise scope. That is to follow those rules.
I don't think that you guys should complain about MT5 but about those rules.
This said, I'm no MT5 fan or anything.
My point is that, I'm happy if you are smart enough to benefit from edging strategies, but I seriously doubt about the profitability of martingale systems and similar....
Yeah, but there are trends on each timeframe. Sometimes they are synergistic, and often in opposition. The NFA rules are stupid and only derail continuation trades. For the current GBPJPY, there are two hourly bear swings enveloped in a bullish daily swing. A continuation trade is making $3, while exploiting the hourly reaps another $2.

Martingale is a doubling sequence which is essential to all life functions. Moreover, MTF trading isn't always martingale. In my example below I'm going short and long simultaneously. That isn't doubling my positions. And NFA isn't barring martingale. Why do that, when it's so lucrative for brokers. You seem confused. Not a good time to skip your homework. The NFA is playing for keeps.

MT5 and NFA are out to do one thing: steal my money. Metatrader should do as Putin, and give NFA the finger. US is a declining empire. NFA decided Americans are too stupid to trade, and so brokers are now nanneys. Better to write off the USA forex market as grossly incompetent than watch the corpse twitch.
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  • #149
  • Edited 5:38am Sep 9, 2009 2:51am | Edited 5:38am
Below is the GBPJPY on the daily time frame, with a decent looking double top.

The blue line represent a nice daily uptrend.

The yellow lines represent where down trends would have been on the hourly chart.

The change from MT4 broker to MT5 broker (or to any other NFA regulated broker) will not allow me to take the yellow down trend trades without closing my daily uptrend trade.

Hence I either have to predict re-entry for the daily uptrend (blue) trade in order to take hourly down trend trades.
This increases difficulty of trading.

OR
I have to go without the hourly downtrend trades.
You will notice that the pips in the hourly downtrend areas, add to being almost the same amount of pips as the overall uptrend. Hence you are going without a lot of pips.

Same occurs on lower timeframes.

MT5 needs to be different for non-USA / non-NFA brokers around the world.

MT5 should not be traded with unless it is changed for every other broker / trader around the globe.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #150
  • Sep 10, 2009 2:34am Sep 10, 2009 2:34am
Does anybody have any experience with ITFX? Spreads are great - maybe too great - don't know. Any info. would be appreciated.

Art
  • #151
  • Sep 10, 2009 8:21am Sep 10, 2009 8:21am
Hi guys,

I totally see your point and the technical troubles some strategies will have. And, believe me, I agree that the NFA rules are close to being idiotic at least.

My question is, has anybody tried writing to the MT5 guys about this changes? if so what was their answer?


have a nice day
Alex
fuck ODL
  • #152
  • Sep 10, 2009 9:23am Sep 10, 2009 9:23am
  •  onu
  • | Joined Feb 2006 | Status: superior senior member | 746 Posts
Quoting pt2009
Hi guys,

I totally see your point and the technical troubles some strategies will have. And, believe me, I agree that the NFA rules are close to being idiotic at least.

My question is, has anybody tried writing to the MT5 guys about this changes? if so what was their answer?


have a nice day
Alex

I guess the mt5 guys give a sh%$ about traders concerns, they are making money with selling their products to brokers. And USA brokers are founders of NFA, don't forget this ever.....
  • #153
  • Sep 11, 2009 8:11am Sep 11, 2009 8:11am
I can't believe all the nonsense I'm reading in this thread.

The NFA restrictions and MT5 aren't part of a conspiracy. The NFA have imposed FIFO. This is incompatible with MT4, hence you end up with stupid restrictions like not being able to have both long and short pending orders in MT4. MT5 does support FIFO, so there won't be any stupid restrictions. You will be able to have both long and short pending orders and buy and sell however you please.
  • #154
  • Sep 12, 2009 1:28am Sep 12, 2009 1:28am
Quoting euclid
I can't believe all the nonsense I'm reading in this thread.

The NFA restrictions and MT5 aren't part of a conspiracy. The NFA have imposed FIFO. This is incompatible with MT4, hence you end up with stupid restrictions like not being able to have both long and short pending orders in MT4. MT5 does support FIFO, so there won't be any stupid restrictions. You will be able to have both long and short pending orders and buy and sell however you please.
While we're on the topic of silliness, you post seems to contradict itself. Perhaps you are thinking of dual accounts for hedging? That still reduces my trading equity with double margin requirements and means more hassle, as now two accounts could blow up.
  • #155
  • Sep 12, 2009 7:17am Sep 12, 2009 7:17am
Edgers you can always edge by using different pairs. For example go long on audusd and short on nzdusd (directly correlated pairs) - or long on eurusd and long usdcad (inverse correlation).
This is a better, more complex for sure, concept of edging.
This said I'm a trend follower and I believe in trend following as the only way to make quick profits with small risk and I see any restriction on the new platform as an opportunity for some people to really learn the real concepts of trading.

About MT5 I suggest that we wait for the release before talking about it. There's no point right now because none of us has 100% information on the new platform.


Alex
fuck ODL
  • #156
  • Sep 12, 2009 4:05pm Sep 12, 2009 4:05pm
Hey Aqaart, i've just come across your thread, i use the "hedge" trade in a similar way, and find it very usefull, though it is definetely not for everyone.
Your private message switched off on purpose?
I'm in Australia too, and use Gomarkets as an trial broker right now.
I guess the best thing about a DOM is the speed by which you can enter/exit orders (if it will work like most DOM's), so the use of a subaccount might be the only other option.
Biggest joker
  • #157
  • Edited 8:12am Sep 14, 2009 7:44am | Edited 8:12am
Quoting euclid
I can't believe all the nonsense I'm reading in this thread.

The NFA restrictions and MT5 aren't part of a conspiracy. The NFA have imposed FIFO. This is incompatible with MT4, hence you end up with stupid restrictions like not being able to have both long and short pending orders in MT4. MT5 does support FIFO, so there won't be any stupid restrictions. You will be able to have both long and short pending orders and buy and sell however you please.
Agreed that when MT5 comes out you will be able to have pending orders in both.



But you still won't be able to have the same size lot trades in opposing directions. The reason I kicked up a stink, is because:

  1. I trade 1 and 4 hour charts, that are nearly always in agreement.
  2. The other 59 minutes each hour I trade the 5 min charts.
  3. Problem is about 30% of trades that I see on the 5 minute chart are now cut out. As you can imagine it is by far the major contributor to my profits.
  4. With the one position system on MT5, whether i am with the USA NFA regulated broker or not it is likely to cause loss for my trading.

Hence not happy...

  • #158
  • Sep 14, 2009 8:53am Sep 14, 2009 8:53am
Quoting baron193
I guess the best thing about a DOM is the speed by which you can enter / exit orders (if it will work like most DOM's)
According to the euromoneyFX survey in May 2008, 80% of the 3.98 trillion dollars traded was completed by 10 of the world's biggest banks.
I would suggest that DOM in FOREX is only relatively accurate if missing the data of those banks. Cause how can 20% of the market determine what the 10 big banks are going to do?

The reason is, that the people who move the market (top 10 banks) with huge volumes, do not release the trading volume that they do. Why? Because when analysised it would give away to others how the bank did its trading / how they made their money. This would be detracting away from the bank's sole purpose.

I spose possibilities are:

  1. MT5 brokers are going to receive a direct broadcast from data that metaquotes acquires.
  2. all Mt5 brokers will need to be ECN with metaquotes acquiring volume of each trade
  3. all maybe it will semi-DOM, and it will look at the number of trades instead of actual trade volume (which I have heard is not bad)

Whatever the case I hope that it is an improvement on what they have at the moment.

  • #159
  • Sep 14, 2009 9:58am Sep 14, 2009 9:58am
Quoting Spitfire
Does anybody have any experience with ITFX? Spreads are great - maybe too great - don't know. Any info. would be appreciated.
Art
There a range of forex based / trading based companies that go by the acronym ITFX.
These include:
http://www.itfx-systemtrading.com (with managed forex accounts)
http://www.itradefx.cn/
http://www.infotradefx.com/

I don't have any info on these peoples. However, they are all different fx companies that go via the name itfx. So people might not know who your talking about.

http://www.investtechfx.com - I looked at these guys once upon a time.

  1. Appear dodgey. NDD but have fixed spreads. This just says to me that they must have hired someone else to be the dealing desk for them, why would you interfere with the spreads (fix them) if you were not dealing? Wouldn't you want to simply pass the best spreads possible onto the client?
  2. 1 pip fixed spreads with 500:1 leverage is exceptional and also means that they are a retail market maker. So again, how can they be not dealing, if they have such high leverage. It would be exposing the company to too much risk, unless they have hired a separate company to do the deal desk work on their behalf. So exceptional, that it makes me wonder how they make their money, because they are NDD supposably.
  3. Minimum Fee of $10 per Lot applies Available for day trader with high level of activities and above monthly customers average trading (I would check this out with them.)
  4. Federal Canadian Corporation operates under Canadian Business Act, does not mean they are a regulated exchange broker, but according to http://www.canadabusiness.ca/servlet...display&c=Regs in Canada there is no investment regulator for forex

There are a range of things that seem dodgey with this broker. but if you go live don't be afraid to pass on your experience.

  • #160
  • Sep 14, 2009 4:15pm Sep 14, 2009 4:15pm
Quoting euclid
I can't believe all the nonsense I'm reading in this thread.

The NFA restrictions and MT5 aren't part of a conspiracy. The NFA have imposed FIFO.
NFA is killing this market....
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