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NITRO Variations for Open-minded Traders

  • #161
  • Aug 31, 2009 6:41am Aug 31, 2009 6:41am
Hey folks,

Was away last week and just got caught up on the
latest developments. I am excited that this is moving
forward in new directions and thankyou to all those with
positive contributions.

Personally I have not been keen on the 25:5 risk/reward nitro
and did a lot of experimenting with "multiple time frame"
nitro, using the euro on a 10 pip brick chart and also 3 brick
chart, trading when both were lining up, 10 at edge of bollinger
bands, going for 5 pips, risking 10 - 15. This method is workable
but for me it doesn't feel like "less is more trading" which is what I want.

Now I am trading c4 and renko patterns (thanks ASDF for the
great info). I really like the support/resistance aspects of renko and
I like that it is is really easy to take pips with c4 when everything
is lined up, (I am taking 7 pips, risking 15, but usually closing much earlier
if I am convinced direction is wrong).

I find watching c4 and renko charts at the same time gives excellent information,
especially when watching the highly correlated pairs. I'm not trading the yen pairs,
only eu and aus as I have 0.9 and 2.0 spread and they
are the least chaotic movers imo.

I have been studying patterns and it would be great if we can discuss
this more for renko, particularly results and probabilities.

Took 3% during london today with "discretional c4"
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  • #162
  • Aug 31, 2009 7:08am Aug 31, 2009 7:08am
Quoting paradoxical
asdf, you sound much like Edgetrader. i see you've only been a member of FF for a short time, and were a futures trader before this. I've traded futures myself, and can't say that there's much similarity between futures and forex, at least when it comes to the use of indicators. Just curious as to what qualifies you to be giving advice with such a short time at forex?
There have been historically high correlations between the aussie and gold, and between the loonie and oil (including near record high correlations this year). This summer has also seen high correlations between the s&p and the euro. Are these just anomolies? Would you mind posting some facts or observations regarding the lack of similarities between futures and forex? As it is, your only contribution to this thread is a blanket opinion that has no factual basis at all, and runs contrary to industry statistics.

Price action is price action, regardless of the market. Price makes highs and lows in futures, forex, stocks and bonds. Support and resistance holds or it doesn't hold. I look forward to your findings that indicate otherwise.
  • #163
  • Aug 31, 2009 9:03am Aug 31, 2009 9:03am
Quoting asdf
There have been historically high correlations between the aussie and gold, and between the loonie and oil (including near record high correlations this year). This summer has also seen high correlations between the s&p and the euro. Are these just anomolies? Would you mind posting some facts or observations regarding the lack of similarities between futures and forex? As it is, your only contribution to this thread is a blanket opinion that has no factual basis at all, and runs contrary to industry statistics.

Price action is price action, regardless...
Well said asdf,
There is too much cr4p pasted in FF. We should all try (hard?) not to add to it.

Ian
  • #164
  • Aug 31, 2009 9:26am Aug 31, 2009 9:26am
asdf,

I insist: PA trading and strategies that DON'T rely heavily on the use of (new) indis are more suited for the other thread, I think your opinions will be most welcomed there, check it out and decide for yourself:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=193524

Quoting asdf
There have been historically high correlations between the aussie and gold, and between the loonie and oil (including near record high correlations this year). This summer has also seen high correlations between the s&p and the euro. Are these just anomolies? Would you mind posting some facts or observations regarding the lack of similarities between futures and forex? As it is, your only contribution to this thread is a blanket opinion that has no factual basis at all, and runs contrary to industry statistics.

Price action is price action, regardless...
  • #165
  • Aug 31, 2009 9:58am Aug 31, 2009 9:58am
Here is an even bigger picture look at the eurjpy. knowing where you're at on the map can make all the difference in understanding where price might move next and how big the move may be.

I asked earlier what that huge triple top formation might say about the subsequent move down? Strong reversal formations tend to lead to strong moves away from the reversal point. Here it is was a 250+ pip move downward.

Bali, I post here simply based on the title of the thread. I don't advocate taking 5 pips at the risk of 20, or even 10, especially not when there is a high probability of a 100+ pip move in your favor. Thus my comments don't belong in the other thread. I post here because this is for open-minded traders.
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  • #166
  • Aug 31, 2009 10:12am Aug 31, 2009 10:12am
Very clear!!!

Quoting asdf
I asked earlier what that huge triple top formation might say about the subsequent move down? Strong reversal formations tend to lead to strong moves away from the reversal point. Here it is was a 250+ pip move downward.
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  • #167
  • Aug 31, 2009 10:17am Aug 31, 2009 10:17am
Price action as a whole sucks today.
EJ provided good trades. I normally don't trade CADJPY but felt the pattern indicated an impending uptrend (highlighted rectangle). However it was delayed and cost me two losing trades. Am done for the day as Price is going nowhere right now.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...&postcount=260
4XTrader2
  • #168
  • Aug 31, 2009 12:21pm Aug 31, 2009 12:21pm
I will post this in both the thread because i think it can be useful both for those who like Nitro variations and for those who like the original version but want to make better the R/R ratio.

I was observing the chart with the renko wicks activated...i've noticed something interesting.

On EURJPY most of the times when a reversal brick occours...the price retraces before going in the right direction...and retraces often about 10 pips.

On GBPJPY the situation is different, when there is a good reversal...the most of the times the price doesn't retrace and goes in the right direction pretty quickly...due to the major volatility.

So...an idea can be:

On EURJPY:

- Don't take the trade if it doesn't retrace
- Enter the trade if the price retraces about 10 pips with a TP of 10 pips and a SL of 11 pips + spread

On GBPJPY:

- Take always the trade (because if the signal is good the price doesn't retraces too much) with a TP of 5 pips and a SL of 11 pips + spread

This is just an idea...i don't know how it can do in real trade...i'm sure the hit rate is a little bit lower...but the R/R ratio can be surely better.
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Market is like a puzzle, YOU have to fit the pieces!!
  • #169
  • Edited 2:26pm Aug 31, 2009 1:06pm | Edited 2:26pm
Quoting Chris_B
...On EURJPY most of the times when a reversal brick occours...the price retraces before going in the right direction...and retraces often about 10 pips....
So...an idea can be:
On EURJPY:

- Don't take the trade if it doesn't retrace
- Enter the trade if the price retraces about 10 pips with a TP of 10 pips and a SL of 11 pips + spread
Chris,
If I understand you correctly, you are saying theat on the EJ the second Green brick or second Red brick has a long wick. The problem, surely is that some of those 2nd bricks keep moving against the reversal brick and so end up being a reversal brick of a reversal brick.
Your suggestion would have us enter on ALL of these ones, but not on the ones which go in the desired direction from the start ( i.e. the smooth winners).
Whilst it is true that the stoploss can be reduced a bit and the TP increased a bit, you are targeting only those trades which look likely to be losers. (If you take a trade on completion of every reversal brick) I counted 8 losing trades on your EJ chart and this change would still take every one of them whilst not taking some of the winners. Does the improved R:R compensate for this?

Ian
Appologies, having problems getting my head around this. I forgot that (in theory) you don't lose from missing a winning trade, so long as you have enough trades and enough winners. It may work to enter on a slight retrace with a smaller SL and shoot for a few more pips.
  • #170
  • Aug 31, 2009 1:21pm Aug 31, 2009 1:21pm
Quoting ianf0ster
Chris,
If I understand you correctly, you are saying theat on the EJ the second Green brick or second Red brick has a long wick. The problem, surely is that some of those 2nd bricks keep moving against the reversal brick and so end up being a reversal brick of a reversal brick.
Your suggestion would have us enter on ALL of these ones, but not on the ones which go in the desired direction from the start ( i.e. the smooth winners).
Whilst it is true that the stoploss can be reduced a bit and the TP increased a bit, you are targeting only those trades...
I really don't know...mine was just a visual observation...i've not tryied and i've not done a specific research on %...
Was just an idea for those who want to try to see if it makes better their bad R/R feel...

In any case it seems to me that even with the original rules... a 20pips+spread SL is the best option...
Market is like a puzzle, YOU have to fit the pieces!!
  • #171
  • Aug 31, 2009 1:28pm Aug 31, 2009 1:28pm
Quoting Chris_B
I will post this in both the thread because i think it can be useful both for those who like Nitro variations and for those who like the original version but want to make better the R/R ratio.

I was observing the chart with the renko wicks activated...i've noticed something interesting.

On EURJPY most of the times when a reversal brick occours...the price retraces before going in the right direction...and retraces often about 10 pips.

On GBPJPY the situation is different, when there is a good reversal...the most of the times the price doesn't...
Chris,

i'm currently refining my entry setup in much the same way. i wait for the 3-block reversal in a key area such as S/R or trendline. once that third block prints going the other way, then i either place a limit order in the middle of the third block or right in between the third block and second block. haven't settled on one yet. for me, patience on entries and exits always pays off. i've found that fear of missing the big move has put me in some really bad trades, and fear of losing big profits has led to some really bad exits. i try and let price action take me out now. easier said than done, however, as exits are the most difficult part of the game. what's the quip: enter like a monkey, exit like a pro!

By the way, don't get down on those losses today. it was a tough day. index futures were also very slow and choppy. i took two losses before just shutting it down. chalk it up to business expense.
  • #172
  • Aug 31, 2009 1:41pm Aug 31, 2009 1:41pm
It's a cool strategy, I made some nice +5pips minutes ago. I entered on the second block though, I had the feelling that PA was getting choppy again, it turned out to be true.

I also make shure that correl + mom are in sync

Quoting asdf
Chris,

i'm currently refining my entry setup in much the same way. i wait for the 3-block reversal in a key area such as S/R or trendline. once that third block prints going the other way, then i either place a limit order in the middle of the third block or right in between the third block and second block. haven't settled on one yet. for me, patience on entries and exits always pays off. i've found that fear of missing the big move has put me in some really bad trades, and fear of losing big profits has led to some really bad exits. i try and...
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  • #173
  • Aug 31, 2009 2:25pm Aug 31, 2009 2:25pm
Be careful with the wicks when visually backtesting. The renko bricks based upon M1 data may give "misleading" high low values. During times of high volitility, the high/low data can be incorrect.

Also, it should be impossible that a downward renko brick could have a low below the close of the brick. Likewise, an upward renko brick should never have a high above the close.

Does not appear to be a factor when the bricks are created in live mode.

Again, limitation of MT4. Only tick data will give accurate high/low values.

May or may not affect your findings...

Quoting Chris_B
I was observing the chart with the renko wicks activated...i've noticed something interesting.
  • #174
  • Aug 31, 2009 4:47pm Aug 31, 2009 4:47pm
I have traded eMini ES - S&P500 - and August is always a very choppy, slow month. I really do not know if Currencies have the same fluctuations with time of year. Monday was OK early Asian session (I took 2 early +5s) but the rest of the day was difficult to trade. Better to sit it out IMO.

Perhaps PA will be better in September and beyond. Someone with more experience may care to comment.
  • #175
  • Aug 31, 2009 4:51pm Aug 31, 2009 4:51pm
Quoting zznbrm
Be careful with the wicks when visually backtesting. The renko bricks based upon M1 data may give "misleading" high low values. During times of high volitility, the high/low data can be incorrect.

Also, it should be impossible that a downward renko brick could have a low below the close of the brick. Likewise, an upward renko brick should never have a high above the close.

Does not appear to be a factor when the bricks are created in live mode.

Again, limitation of MT4. Only tick data will give accurate high/low values.

May or may...
The bricks are formed from the close price of the candle data. It is quite possible to have other candles after a brick is formed that have a high or low value above/below the renko brick and hence the wicks. If it is coded properly there is no need to have tick by tick data to represent the highest and lowest price WHILE any particular brick is valid (that is until a close price of a candle formes a new brick). However I can only speculate on the limitations of MT4.

Cheers,
John.
  • #176
  • Aug 31, 2009 4:58pm Aug 31, 2009 4:58pm
Quoting scartree
I have traded eMini ES - S&P500 - and August is always a very choppy, slow month. I really do not know if Currencies have the same fluctuations with time of year. Monday was OK early Asian session (I took 2 early +5s) but the rest of the day was difficult to trade. Better to sit it out IMO.

Perhaps PA will be better in September and beyond. Someone with more experience may care to comment.
Today was a bank holiday here in the UK. Maybe that had something to do with it.
  • #177
  • Aug 31, 2009 4:58pm Aug 31, 2009 4:58pm
Quoting zznbrm
Be careful with the wicks when visually backtesting. The renko bricks based upon M1 data may give "misleading" high low values. During times of high volitility, the high/low data can be incorrect.

Also, it should be impossible that a downward renko brick could have a low below the close of the brick. Likewise, an upward renko brick should never have a high above the close.

Does not appear to be a factor when the bricks are created in live mode.

Again, limitation of MT4. Only tick data will give accurate high/low values.

May or may not...
Hi,
I think I have said this before:
The commercial script uses incomming tick data (once it has built the historical bricks from the 1 min data).

This is one of the reasons why it is the best implementation of Renko in MT4 (last time I checked which was 2 days ago).

Ian
  • #178
  • Aug 31, 2009 5:00pm Aug 31, 2009 5:00pm
Quoting johny pip
Today was a bank holiday here in the UK. Maybe that had something to do with it.
Not only a bank holiday, but very few news events in the FF Calendar and no RED news.
  • #179
  • Aug 31, 2009 6:05pm Aug 31, 2009 6:05pm
Quoting ianf0ster
The commercial script uses incomming tick data (once it has built the historical bricks from the 1 min data).
Of course, the commercial script uses incoming tick data. Thus, my comment that there does not appear to be any issue when in live mode (ie, using tick data).

It is only the historical bricks that may or may not have an issue.
  • #180
  • Sep 1, 2009 3:48am Sep 1, 2009 3:48am
Quoting zznbrm
Of course, the commercial script uses incoming tick data. Thus, my comment that there does not appear to be any issue when in live mode (ie, using tick data).

It is only the historical bricks that may or may not have an issue.
Regardless of what kind of data is being used for calculation, all wicks are shifted to the right, thus belong to a 'wrong' bricks. May be this issue is related to limitations of MT4... may be not... And may be Michal could make it clear?

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