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NITRO Variations for Open-minded Traders

  • Post #1
  • Quote
  • First Post: Aug 26, 2009 9:59am Aug 26, 2009 9:59am
With Edge currently under investigation, all of us trading Nitro need a new home. Some of us don't want to have to obey hard and fast rules dictated from on high.

Those who wish to stick strictly to Edge's strategy should head over to 4xstar's thread here - http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=193524

Those who wish to keep an open mind, and find ways of improving their trading, whether it be with sticking with the original rules or formulating improved strategies should post in here.

Money management is important, and one should always have a trading plan. That said, 1%, 2%, 3% gain per day - whatever it is is up to you. Similarly, if your reading of the PA shows that you could ride the momentum for longer then by all means do so.

There is no "right" way in forex. Just as there is no "right" way in life.

Onward with the pipping!

  • Post #2
  • Quote
  • Edited 10:16am Aug 26, 2009 10:02am | Edited 10:16am
Trading Nitro

This system utilises renko charts.

There is a free version available on FF here.

Alternatively there is a version which can be purchased online. A google search for "renko script mt4" will likely find it.

The currency pairs traded with this method are the Yen crosses.

Those are: AUD/JPY, EUR/JPY, GBP/JPY, CHF/JPY, CAD/JPY, NZD/JPY

Relevant indicators are attached to this post.

A more detailed explanation of how Nitro is traded is forthcoming.

In the meanwhile, the C4 thread (over 500 pages long) contains all you need to know, if you dare sift through it!
Attached File(s)
File Type: ex4 DXTrade Nitro Dashboard.ex4   22 KB | 2,176 downloads
File Type: ex4 HMA Color nrp.ex4   6 KB | 1,794 downloads
File Type: ex4 smC4Scalper Candles_v3.1.ex4   8 KB | 1,802 downloads
File Type: ex4 Nitro-Momentum-Indy-V2.ex4   4 KB | 2,078 downloads
Excellent idea .. this will give a home for those who want to trade Nitro, but with a more room for experimentation. I'll be referring people to this thread, I am sure.
******************* I'd rather make money than be right.
<RESERVED for 4XTrader2>
4XTrader2
I look forward to it 4xStar. I agree we need a thread where people post their trades each day. Additionally we need a place where improvements to the system can be discussed and made.
No doctored screens just 6th day in a row making a profit. The key is price action. Note that I removed everything but the Renko scalper candles and the MA. I have another MA on the chart strictly to help me identify the larger trend.

I am only posting the EJ chart as this is all I traded today.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 0826Trades.jpg Size: 92 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 0826TradeCharts.jpg Size: 170 KB
4XTrader2
Quoting Mindsphere
Trading Nitro

This system utilises renko charts.

There is a free version available on FF here.

Alternatively there is a version which can be purchased online. A google search for "renko script mt4" will likely find it.

The currency pairs traded with this method are the Yen crosses.

Those are: AUD/JPY, EUR/JPY, GBP/JPY, CHF/JPY, CAD/JPY, NZD/JPY

Relevant indicators are attached to this post.

A more detailed explanation of how Nitro is traded is forthcoming.

In the...
If you go looking for the free version be sure you go all the way to the end of the thread. The original has gone through some enhancements and bug fixes. Current version is v1.6 and is in beta...
Old Benjamin was right
Quoting 4xtrader2
No doctored screens just 6th day in a row making a profit. The key is price action. Note that I removed everything but the Renko scalper candles and the MA. I have another MA on the chart strictly to help me identify the larger trend.

I am only posting the EJ chart as this is all I traded today.

Hi all, new to this system. Read the thread and D/l the templates and indis acccordinly.

but i cant seem to understand how is the Entry is define?

could sum1 show the light of path to me?

thanks N rgds
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: nitro.jpg Size: 188 KB
trade safe
Quoting Mindsphere

Those who wish to stick strictly to Edge's strategy should head over to 4xstar's thread here - http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=193524

Those who wish to keep an open mind, and find ways of improving their trading, whether it be with sticking with the original rules or formulating improved strategies should post in here.

What Do We Know About Nitro?


From Edgetrader’s post on the C4 Strategy forum of Sunday, August 02, 2009, 8:58 pm (since removed):
His “original” Nitro system backtested on TradeStation including a screenshot of Nitro trades on the EURJPY, supposedly had the following indicators and settings:
1. WMA (16)
2. TRIX (5)
3. Momentum (4) – Primer
4. MA cross with TRIX confirmation is the Trigger
Listed the GBPUSD, EURUSD, and USDCHF pairs. However the screenshot and Excel spreadsheet shared was for the EURJPY.
Renko blocks were set at 10 pip blocks but it was suggested 5 pip blocks could provide quicker activity. The screenshot showed 10 pip blocks. I have checked the trades in the trade list of the spreadsheet against the screenshot and they do check out.

From the C4 Strategy Post #1 updated August 7, 2009, the following was recommended for the NITRO STRATEGY:
Commercial Renko charting package is recommended.
The following Indicator settings were recommended:
1. HMA color set at 8,3,3,true,2,0. (MA in Color_wAppliedPrice.mq4)
2. SM Super Trix PV4 set at 2,1,1,1. (Keep ONLY the signal arrows on your charts) (smSuper TRIX_PV_4col.ex4).
3. Momentum set at 4 and overlayed within the TRIX indicator box. (Standard MT4 indicator).
4. DXTrade Information C4/Nitro meter (default settings) (DXTrade C4 Nitro Dashboard.ex4)
5. SM Scalper Candles set at 2,1,1,1 overlaid on the Renko bricks. (smC4Scalper Candles_v3.ex4)
Best suited pairs listed were the EURJPY, CHFJPY, AUDJPY, and GBPJPY. Substitute GBPJPY with USDJPY if uncomfortable with large spreads and high volatility.

1. Set the Renko brick size to 10 pips
2 - SM Scalper candles turn color as does the HMA color indicator.
Momentum crosses the 'zero' level of the TRIX indicator – Primers
3 - TRIX arrow appears – Charge!
4 - Two (2) bombs on the meter that are the same color. – Detonator.
TP = 5 pips SL is arbitrary.
What is the Nitro Strategy Now?


Renko charts – commercial or freebie – your choice.
Indicators:
· Moving average. WMA 8 to 12 or HMA 8
· TRIX 2 to 6 OR
· IndexedMomentumK – 2,10,2,3.
· Other indicators per your discretion
Entry/Exit: 5 pips TP, SL is discretionary
Correlation with other JPY pairs provides confirmation of trend direction.
FOCUS ON PRICE ACTION. Price action is best described as how fast the price is moving in the direction of the trend. If it is moving fast enough you can get in and hit your profit target within one to two minutes. This is considered a high-probability trade.
The concept of “less is more” applies to indicators, trading goals, risk.
Conceivably, a 5 pip profit made with one trade of 5 lots has less risk than 5 – 1 lot trades making 5 pips.
Can this strategy be traded profitably?
That is for you to decide. A number of people have been forward testing this strategy and are convinced that it is profitable and worth pursuing. I am one of those who believe that. My basic plan has been to trade it for a couple hundred trades in a demo environment, go live with small exposure (1 mini lot) and test it again for a couple hundred trades. From there, go to larger lot sizes (1 to 10 standard lots).

Post your thoughts, comments, feedback, critiques, ideas, etc. that you feel will validate and improve the strategy. Please don't post mindless BS, accusations, innuendos, rants, etc. that do not improve the strategy.
Thanks
4XTrader2
The top settings... not bad... and if those are the actual settings used
(btw I greatly prefer the 5 tic renko myself) to get the great
results that were posted as back test results..perhaps this
should be a focus for some traders interested in moving forward?

Brian

Quoting 4xtrader2
What Do We Know About Nitro?


From Edgetrader’s post on the C4 Strategy forum of Sunday, August 02, 2009, 8:58 pm (since removed):
His “original” Nitro system backtested on TradeStation including a screenshot of Nitro trades on the EURJPY, supposedly had the following indicators and settings:
1. [color=#0070c0][size=3][font=Calibri]WMA...
Quoting golden1
The top settings... not bad... and if those are the actual settings used
(btw I greatly prefer the 5 tic renko myself) to get the great
results that were posted as back test results..perhaps this
should be a focus for some traders interested in moving forward?

Brian
I have been disecting the nitro.xls and comparing trades and indicators trade by trade. It will take a few more days before I have any definitive conclusions. However, my hope is that the FF admin will allow Edge to continue to carry this forward as I believe he has been very beneficial in driving this in a positive direction towards the goal of helping people trade for a living on their own.
4XTrader2
Thank you for consolidating the known information about Nitro. It was very hard to keep up with the C4 thread...

I will be testing this alongside you all. What times do you all plan on trading this?

I was planning on trying the London / US overlap.
4xtrader2 quotes ~
"The concept of “less is more” applies to indicators, trading goals, risk.
Conceivably, a 5 pip profit made with one trade of 5 lots has less risk than 5 – 1 lot trades making 5 pips.
Can this strategy be traded profitably?
 That is for you to decide. A number of people have been forward testing this strategy and are convinced that it is profitable and worth pursuing. I am one of those who believe that. My basic plan has been to trade it for a couple hundred trades in a demo environment, go live with small exposure (1 mini lot) and test it again for a couple hundred trades. From there, go to larger lot sizes (1 to 10 standard lots)."

Herein lies the biggest problem area (and indeed may well have been part of any potential plan to take this commercial).

The concept outlined above is all good and well; on demo!

With real money, in order to make any decent return it will require 2 major elements - a large bank and nerves of steel. This is a completely different scenario from demo. No amount of back/forward testing, performance data will eliminate the unexpected in live FX.

Do the basic maths on this, calculate what you expect to earn from it, what size bank you will need, what your potential outlay will be, what your return will be, etc.. Then consider what state of mind you would have if you had 2 or more consecutive losing trades with that amount of your money at risk. (Please don't say this will never happen, this is FX and no matter how high your expected level of probability it is not guaranteed).

Be honest about your findings and consider whether you would want that level of stress etc in your trading. I doubt that there will be many willing to take this on with real money unless they want to play at it for pennies.

On the other hand, if someone was to come along and offer to do all the work for you, deposit 10K upwards with them. You don't then have the stress etc, you might get a return but then again you'd be entrusting your hard earned with a complete stranger and we all know what can happen then. Sadly that opportunity may have gone now due to recent events, you should all be relieved.

Simply put, when you are considering FX with real money look at "Less is More" objectively, very objectively.

Regards.
Regarding backtest:

- Despite several requests, the parameters/indicators/logic used for the "1000 wins 0 losses" backtest were never provided.
- Judging by the trades taken, no long-term (or near-term) trend was used to filter trades
- The 100% win rate was for two months. I believe it was stated that previous months were around 97% win rate.
- No one has been able to duplicate these results in MT4.

Now, this is what I really could never understand. The 97-100% win rate backtest was using a 100% mechanical system (EAs are 100% mechanical, right?).

Then, why has Nitro been advertised as 75% mental/discretionary?

If reading Price Action effectively is so important and can only be achieved by hundreds of hours of screen time, then why can an EA read Price Action very, very accurately?

If you all are serious about getting your trading to the levels the backtest showed, then I hope most of your discussion is about how to define Price Action/momentum/correlation.

Either the backtest results are a fake or the author developed a mechanical way to define PA/Momentum/correlation. I'm not judging anyone, but 1 of these 2 things MUST be true.
Quoting strada
4xtrader2 quotes ~
"The concept of “less is more” applies to indicators, trading goals, risk.
Conceivably, a 5 pip profit made with one trade of 5 lots has less risk than 5 – 1 lot trades making 5 pips.
Can this strategy be traded profitably?
...
Agree. What never should be eliminated is the old trading rule, never trade against the trend,

the bricks watching as they walk up and down is nice, but the signals should only be taken into the direction of the prevailing trend -
and it's hard work to figure out what this means right now.
/ ... clarifying decisions ... /
Quoting strada
Herein lies the biggest problem area (and indeed may well have been part of any potential plan to take this commercial).

The concept outlined above is all good and well; on demo!

With real money, in order to make any decent return it will require 2 major elements - a large bank and nerves of steel. This is a completely different scenario from demo. No amount of back/forward testing, performance data will eliminate the unexpected in live FX.

Do the basic maths on this, calculate what you expect to earn from it, what size bank you will need,...
Strada, this is something I have put a lot of thought into and that is why I have committed to this strategy. Having traded live for the last 5 years, I know what drawdown is and I know what losses are. I have lost 25K overnight and regained it back the next day so I am also familiar with risk.

The beauty of this strategy is that it does not need 100K in capital to fund it and it does not require me to leave my money exposed to the market for extended periods of time. If I net 3 or 4 hundred bucks a day with this strategy, then I have enough to live on and pursue other endeavors. The ideal risk/reward for me is one trade in the market for less than 1 minute and I am out for the day. If I need funds to go on a vacation, then I might have to do two or three trades instead.

Can I handle consecutive losses? How about 17 in a row? That's my record. Yes it was live and it killed my account. But I am now back in the game and am learning to manage myself, my expectations, my risks and my rewards. If you continue to follow this thread you will see me post my results daily - the good, the bad, unretouched. If you look at my postings on the C4 thread over the last couple of months you will see my trades as well.

As for letting someone else manage my trades? Not on your life! Neither will I manage anyone else's (and I have had lots and lots of opportunities). My advice to anyone who is trying to invest money in any market is to become your own expert. No one is going to hand it to you. You have to work for it.
4XTrader2
Quoting zznbrm
Regarding backtest:

- Despite several requests, the parameters/indicators/logic used for the "1000 wins...
You'll notice some interesting things around the forum. That scalping type technique is 75% mental, i'd argue even higher. But that 95%+ scenario is often shown because it is 95%+ effective after the fact. You can't backtest something that's 75% mental because you're only accounting for the 25% which is mechanical. Nor can you say something like that works after a few weeks of demo testing. It takes months of consistency and with a demo you have no pressure, whereas in real time its your hard earned money on the line. That more then half of that 75% mentality. Because again, on demo if you make a mistake, well that's all it is and you simply shake it off by stating that you're learning.

Overall, demo trading for 2-3 months is minimum. Some state that with this you'll be able to enter completely emotionless trades with real cash. Money makes the world go around. And until one of those traders actually use real money, they're only fooling themselves into thinking that they'll be emotion-free, completely mechanical after they're finished demo-ing.

Actually a good alternative is using a micro account to practice with real money. That'd probably be the best way to forward test.

P.S yes its quite easy to fabricate your MT4 results. Running simulators is the most easy way and I assume its not too difficult with photoshop. Not saying it was done, but its easy.
Quoting zznbrm
Regarding backtest:

- Despite several requests, the parameters/indicators/logic used for the "1000 wins...
I have been analyzing the spreadsheet and screenshot trade by trade to decipher the riddle. My question to you in deciphering the PA/momentum/correlation is what have you done and what results can you share with the rest of us? If you don't put any effort into it to prove or disprove what has been presented and you are just expecting it to be handed to you then you don't belong in this thread. Everyone here should be absolutely obsessed with proofing up this strategy and should expend considerable effort to help the rest of the team here to proof it up. Thus far a number of people have traded this strategy and are achieving some very promising results. Others are providing resources with indis to help, while other are working in directions to proof up the PA/Momentum/Correlation thing. No pain, no gain. You don't get a bodybuilder's physique without the effort.
4XTrader2
Quoting DarkDays
Thank you for consolidating the known information about Nitro. It was very hard to keep up with the C4 thread...

I will be testing this alongside you all. What times do you all plan on trading this?

I was planning on trying the London / US overlap.
DarkDays,
The London / US overlap is certainly the best time to trade it although others do trade both the Asian and the European sessions. Again, what works best for you. I look for price action that will get my trades in and out of the market in under a minute.
4XTrader2
Sounds familiar - the suggestion that since someone has not posted screenshots and indicators, that they are not putting forth an effort.

I can assure you I will not post beta versions of indicators for this method. I will share the results of my efforts when I am ready - when it is production ready.

My work is similar to the work some of FrankenPips crew is doing with momentum. For example, let's take the 4 JPY Nitro pairs. What kind of momentum does JPY have in the market? Which of the pairs is currently the strongest in the JPY direction? Which is the weakest? Which pair was strongest 1 minute ago? 30 seconds ago? 10 seconds ago? Is the momentum increasing or decreasing?

It seems "Price Acton" is this method's version of "Yada Yada Yada":

"The TRIX was RED for all four Nitro pairs, yada yada yada, I made 5 pips."
"The TRIX was RED for all four Nitro pairs, I noticed the price action, I made 5 pips."

"Yada Yada Yada" can and should be put into words (or numbers).

Quoting 4xtrader2
My question to you in deciphering the PA/momentum/correlation is what have you done and what results can you share with the rest of us? If you don't put any effort into it to prove or disprove what has been presented and you are just expecting it to be handed to you then you don't belong in this thread. Everyone here should be absolutely obsessed with proofing up this strategy and should expend considerable effort to help the rest of the team here to proof it up. Thus far a number of people have traded this strategy and are achieving some very promising...
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