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Sonic R. System

  • #5,661
  • Aug 28, 2009 6:27am Aug 28, 2009 6:27am
Quoting Leo.
Quoting from earlier i asked the following regarding the first attachment, "Are either of these two highlighted setups valid (GBPUSD)? They both look quite similar to me but only one of them played out well.
With respect to the GU set ups, I'd agree with Rastaman about the short set up. Whenever you see a lot of up and down bars not only alternating, but overlapping as well, it is usually a good sign to look elsewhere until you see some more impulsive moves. That being said, SonicR will incur losses. So there will be times where a SonicR set up forms that results in a loss. The fact that it loses does not make it invalid. It makes it a SonicR that hit the SL before it hit TP.

The second GU, the long set up, is fine, and I believe if you read through yesterday's posts, Little Trader took that long GU.

Quoting Leo.
I have also attached another screenshot of AUDUSD that has something in it i'm not quite sure about.
The AU looks good also, and in fact I saw the same set up on the AJ when I opened my MT4 this morning. Yes, the swings are smaller than I would generally like to see if this where a SonicR trend reversal. But this is a SonicR trend continuation, and therefore a shallow pullback is actually a sign that the set up is a strong one. If this were a Trend Reversal, whereby we were taking a Short trade against the immediate uptrend, then I'd want to see bigger swings.
  • #5,662
  • Aug 28, 2009 6:43am Aug 28, 2009 6:43am
Quoting ddaytrader
Good Morning, Sonikers! And welcome back, snusnufreak!

UCHF Sonic Short

EP: 1.0565
SL: 1.0590 (-25)
TP1: 1.0510 (+55)
TP2: 1.0475 (+90)

TP1 area should be strong support - TP2 would be a big bonus.
ddaytrader, thanks for clearing up those queries in your recent posts, i really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.

With your UCHF post i noticed a similar kind of setup with UCAD, but i measured out a much larger move as you can see in the picture, perhaps this isn't necessary to measure such big moves?

But i did it because i thought that for a good Sonic R setup, price should cross well up into the MA channel region (or beyond it) and then come back across it again?? However i see from a lot of traders posts, including your recent UCHF chart, that this isn't always the case. I think you referred to this type of scenario in your last post as a "shallow pullback".

I understand there is a large amount of discretion involved. But would you be able to just very simply explain why it is that sometimes you would only require for price to pull back to the channel very slightly before entering? Is it trend strength and direction? setup location? channel angle? I understand its a tricky one to give a clear cut answer on.

Thanks,
Leo
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #5,663
  • Aug 28, 2009 6:51am Aug 28, 2009 6:51am
Quoting Leo.
Thanks Rastaman. I thought that might of been a possibility.

I've noticed that a lot of traders using this method try to place their EP out the way of ranging or consolidating areas and beyond near term highs and lows.

This USDJPY 15M chart looks to me to have a Sonic setup of some kind. I hope people will speak up and nail me for any errors that i am making with trying to find appropriate setups. I really like this strategy and want to learn it well, so please don't go easy on me!

Thanks again,
Leo



Looks like you are really getting the hang of the Sonic wave, GOOD FOR YOU!

I on the other hand , had some kind of mental block and just could not see the waves till DD, TAH, Basber & Sonic, guided me through them by hitting me with a brick on the back of the neck. Worked.

Now I see Bricks all over the place.

Seriously though, It is refreshing to see people who do not seem to struggle with the waves. Good Luck.



PS: I am ALL EARS waiting for the answer to your question, I also wanted to ask the same thing but figured I have already asked enough.
Starting to see instead of just looking.
  • #5,664
  • Aug 28, 2009 7:01am Aug 28, 2009 7:01am
You have identified swings on the UCAD that are larger than necessary for M15 SonicR.

Quoting Leo.
I understand there is a large amount of discretion involved. But would you be able to just very simply explain why it is that sometimes you would only require for price to pull back to the channel very slightly before entering? Is it trend strength and direction? setup location? channel angle? I understand its a tricky one to give a clear cut answer on.
As I explained, it has to do with whether or not the SonicR is continuing a move, or reversing a move. If continuing a move, then I will trade off smaller swings if that is what the market gives me. If reversing a move, I require larger swings.

a) If price is trending up, then I would not require large swings to take a Sonic long in the direction of the up trend.

b) If price is trending down, then I would not require large swings to take a Sonic short in the direction of the down trend.

Quoting Leo.
I understand there is a large amount of discretion involved.
SonicR is not automated, so to that extent it is discretionary. But it is, nonetheless, very objective. Otherwise, how would we explain the fact that often five or more Sonikers are trading the same set ups at the same time even though each is located on a different continent? Do not mistake SonicR's dicretionary character for subjectivity. The discretion comes down to whether or not the individual trader will pull the triger. The identification of the set up is completely objective.
  • #5,665
  • Aug 28, 2009 7:06am Aug 28, 2009 7:06am
Well, Leo, I think you just got your first Brick in the back of the neck.

Sometimes, only a brick will do and DD can deal them out so eloquently.



Welcome aboard.


Thanks for the explanation D, it clears some points up I was going to ask.

I also felt that first wave was perhaps too large.
Starting to see instead of just looking.
  • #5,666
  • Aug 28, 2009 7:31am Aug 28, 2009 7:31am
Thanks again for the generous explanations.

I'm recognizing that this is a very objective strategy but at the same time it is a far cry from being completely free of all bias and a strategy lead by self ruling. Yet this is why i like it so much because it allows the trader to exercise their skill through implementing the rules themselves as they feel is appropriate and correct.

I am still struggling a bit with defining the best setups though, at the moment they are jumping out at me everywhere. I read somewhere earlier in the thread that some Sonic R traders are using a trend drawing indicator or something like that? it shows up trend lines and gives you an overall view of the higher TF trend. Is there something like that available? If not, that's fine, i can draw the lines myself. But it does seem to help a lot to know where the setups are occurring within a trend, which would lead into helping to know which wave setups have a higher potential of making a decent move.

Thanks,
Leo
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  • #5,667
  • Aug 28, 2009 7:41am Aug 28, 2009 7:41am
Quoting Leo.
Thanks again for the generous explanations.

I'm recognizing that this is a very objective strategy but at the same time it is a far cry from being completely free of all bias and a strategy lead by self ruling. Yet this is why i like it so much because it allows the trader to exercise their skill through implementing the rules themselves as they feel is appropriate and correct.

I am still struggling a bit with defining the best setups though, at the moment they are jumping out at me everywhere. I read somewhere earlier in the thread that some...
Maybe you mean the Sonic SHI channel?

Make sure you set the TF to 60 even though you use it on an M15 chart.


PS: You may want to use this pivot indicator also.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 Sonic SHI Channel MTF.mq4   9 KB | 630 downloads
File Type: mq4 PivotsDWM.mq4   10 KB | 387 downloads
Starting to see instead of just looking.
  • #5,668
  • Aug 28, 2009 8:17am Aug 28, 2009 8:17am
Quoting ddaytrader
Good Morning, Sonikers! And welcome back, snusnufreak!

UCHF Sonic Short

EP: 1.0565
SL: 1.0590 (-25)
TP1: 1.0510 (+55)
TP2: 1.0475 (+90)

TP1 area should be strong support - TP2 would be a big bonus.
When price doesn't do what one anticipates it to do, it sometimes makes sense to pull the plug on a trade. I am effectively doing just that here by moving my stop to BE with the trade only +5. If i get bumped at +/- 0, that will be fine.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: UCHF 8-28-2009 Sonic Short BE stop.jpg Size: 140 KB
  • #5,669
  • Aug 28, 2009 8:26am Aug 28, 2009 8:26am
Quoting Rastaman
Maybe you mean the Sonic SHI channel?

Make sure you set the TF to 60 even though you use it on an M15 chart.


PS: You may want to use this pivot indicator also.
Your Daily pivots are not GMT adjustable.

Try these.
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 vS_PivotsD.mq4   16 KB | 453 downloads
cut losses short, let profits run.
  • #5,670
  • Aug 28, 2009 9:15am Aug 28, 2009 9:15am
Quoting ddaytrader
When price doesn't do what one anticipates it to do, it sometimes makes sense to pull the plug on a trade. I am effectively doing just that here by moving my stop to BE with the trade only +5. If i get bumped at +/- 0, that will be fine.
I was going to post that I was moving my stop to +10, and indeed I have been stopped at +10.

I'm logging off from the trading platform, and entering spectator mode for the rest of the day.

Last weekend I read Adventures of a Currency Trader (coincidentally the same book Sonic said he was reading, I believe). I thought it was an interesting book, and while it was way over-priced, it was worth the few hours it took to read (it is a very quick and easy read).

Today is a rainy, dreary day here in NYC, the kids are playing with moon sand, and I am settling down with this weekend's read: How to trade in Stocks, by Jesse Livermore. Livermore is the trader on whom Reminiscenses of a Stock Operator was based. I have read both books many times, and each time I learn something new or reinforce an important concept.

My plan is that I will do no more trades until after the Labor Day holiday (9/7/2010). If I happen to see a real nice classic SonicR, I may be tempted to take a trade, but really I do not plan on watching the market at all during the next week except to review each day's price action sometime after the NY close.

Good Luck to those who do decide to trade between now and Labor Day.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: UCHF 8-28-2009 Sonic Short stop to plus 101.jpg Size: 142 KB
  • #5,671
  • Aug 28, 2009 9:16am Aug 28, 2009 9:16am
Guys, I feel like its time to raise a question of the higher TF trend here.

As we all know, one of the most important rules in SonicR strategy is to whatch out for the major trend and try to take trades in its direction or if trading against the trend, trail the trade closely and monitor it constantly.

But what is a major trend for us intraday traders?

Sonic says 4H aand D1 for 15M confirmation, but lets look at the following picture I randomly picked in the thread somewhat 30 pages ago (I think it was submitted by TAH):

There is an area there marked by red lines which spans about 4 days, as we trade intraday, if we come across Sonic R setups during this time, would they be considered counter or pro trend? What trend do we need to take into account here - short term (red lines) or long-term (black lines) keeping in mind that we are intraday traders and if prices moves mostly down during the day we would be looking for short trades.

I would like our pros (TAH, DD, Basber, Sonic) to comment on this if its possible.

Regards,
snu
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  • #5,672
  • Edited 10:48am Aug 28, 2009 9:47am | Edited 10:48am
Quoting snusnufreak
As we all know, one of the most important rules in SonicR strategy is to whatch out for the major trend and try to take trades in its direction or if trading against the trend, trail the trade closely and monitor it constantly.

But what is a major trend for us intraday traders?
I can only answer for myself, and others may have a different opinion, but if that is "one of the most important rules in SonicR strategy," then I admit I do very well by ignoring it completely!

In my opinion, for M15 SonicR, any trend greater than H1 is too large really to have an effect. I use H4 and D1 and W and M to identify support resistance only.

The only trend I am truly concerned with is the M15. If price is trending up, I am looking for Sonic Short or SonicRentry Long; and if price is tending down, I am looking for SonicR Long or SonicRentry Short. In the end, it is proabably more accurate to say that I am more concerned with the swings and waves than the trend.

Don't overthink this:

1) Do your wave analysis to identify your entry point and trade direction, and

2) use S/R to identify your stop loss and profit targets, and

3) use the H1 channel to identify possible trendline reversal points for your trade, and

4) use higher TF so you know where support and resistance is.

The trend is your friend, indeed. But concern yourself with the trend you are trading. As I said in a post yesterday, if you look at the monthly chart of the S&P500, price is in a downtrend. But, if you trade on D1 TF, you would have been killed only trading short for the last five months. Pick your TF, and trade its immediate trend. You do not get paid to worry about where price has been, you get paid to anticipate where price is going. The M15 waves will tell you the right answer more times than they will fool you if you learn to analyze them properly.
  • #5,673
  • Aug 28, 2009 10:22am Aug 28, 2009 10:22am
snusnufreak
,
Could you please upload that MACD MT4 indicator you have on your charts?
cut losses short, let profits run.
  • #5,674
  • Aug 28, 2009 10:24am Aug 28, 2009 10:24am
Hi Guys,

I am new to the forum and only joined because of the sonic system. I was wondering if anyone could give me some names of books i could read, I would love to learn this system and learn more about waves and anything else that can help me. I have only just started trading in forex (demo account) so any advice would be great.
  • #5,675
  • Aug 28, 2009 12:15pm Aug 28, 2009 12:15pm
Quoting Juneman
Hi Guys,

I am new to the forum and only joined because of the sonic system. I was wondering if anyone could give me some names of books i could read, I would love to learn this system and learn more about waves and anything else that can help me. I have only just started trading in forex (demo account) so any advice would be great.
Hi Juneman,

I am just a lurker on this thread, for the most part, but I would recommend reading the entire thread, if you have not already. Great examples and several book references. Here's book reference from 3 hours ago, for example - http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=5670.

Good luck,
Ed
Up or down, gimme a ticket
  • #5,676
  • Aug 28, 2009 1:26pm Aug 28, 2009 1:26pm
This is an image of the A/U. Still getting my barrings. So far I have been taking sonic trades but taking 10 pips per trade. I know I know MM has to be in play but my biggest concern is "seeing what I think I see". What I see on the A/U is H-LH-LH-Entry. As far as the entry I think I see an Engulfing candle and doji with a bunch of congestion before the entry. I am not taking this trade this is more for analysis.

snusnufreak thank you for the question I had in my head but did not ask. I too were a little confused about the overall trend. I do however look at candles now that Sonic pulled it out of his secret bag of tricks. DD thank you for clearing the confusion for me. I found myself flipping back and forth analizing higher frames S/R,candles etc. Now I know I can focus on the 15-min and wait on the sonic. still building my confidence and ridding fear. This room is absolutely awesome! One day I would like to join the ranks of the room with something to offer. I will not be a leach for long. Have a good week everyone!
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #5,677
  • Aug 28, 2009 1:30pm Aug 28, 2009 1:30pm
Quoting Juneman
Hi Guys,

I am new to the forum and only joined because of the sonic system. I was wondering if anyone could give me some names of books i could read, I would love to learn this system and learn more about waves and anything else that can help me. I have only just started trading in forex (demo account) so any advice would be great.
Quoting SpecialEd
Hi Juneman,

I am just a lurker on this thread, for the most part, but I would recommend reading the entire thread, if you have not already. Great examples and several book references. Here's book reference from 3 hours ago, for example - http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=5670.

Good luck,
Ed
Hi Juneman,

I agree with Ed. I have stated several times that the best you can do for yourself if you are interested in SonicR is:

1) Read the SonicR manual provided in post #1

2) Read and re-read each and every post in this thread. I have read and re-read them myself, and I still make it a point to work through 30-40 pages/week myself. I have been through this thread several times. Each time I learn something or am reminded of something important.

3) Post your charts and ask questions. Remember Sonic's rule:

No Picture, No Post!


Focus your posts on learning to trade the SonicR (wave analysis, support and resistance, etc.) and please refrain from inane and irrelevant market commentary.

Ed pointed to a post where I mention my two favorite trading books:

Reminiscences of a Stock Operator, by Edwin Lefevre
How to Trade in Stocks, by Jesse Livermore

Do not let the fact that these books are about a stock trader fool you into thinking they are irrelevant to forex trading. These books are about being a trader, period. They will help you no matter what you decide to trade.

I recently read Rob Booker's Adventures of a Currency Trader. It is overpriced for what it is, but it was interesting, and if you learn its lessons, you'll be well served. The lesson of his book can be stated as follows: You must trade with a plan based upon upon support and resistance and price action rather than emotion, and you must deploy this plan with sound money management risking no more than 2-3% of your account per trade, and alway, always, always trade with a hard stop in the market. I will say that Booker's presentation is entertaining.

SonicR is based in part on portions of Raghee Horner's Forex Trading for Maximum Profit. I myself have not read this book, and I cannot comment on it other than to say Sonic and others whose opinions I respect have spoken well of it.

My last word is one of caution: You are new, and therefore easy prey to those who would seek to sell you systems, software, books, cds, dvd's, courses, mentorships, boot camps etc. and so on. You do not need any of them. If you are serious about learning to trade using SonicR, then everything you need is right here in this thread - the manual, the examples, and on-going support by a bunch of traders who were right where you find yourself right now.

I too signed up at FF for Sonic's thread alone. If you were to search my posts here at FF you will find that I have only posted to two threads: Sonic R, and another thread about my former broker/market maker removing stop loss and limit order functionality for US clients. I ldo lurk in other threads, and you never know where or when you might learn something new and useful. But, as far as looking for a system, I have found it in the SOnicR. I do not need to keep looking. I need no new indicators. I need no new templates. And the only investment I had to make to learn this system was that of my time and effort to learn, to practice, and to trade.

One more thing: Do not get hung up on the indicators. The indicators are training wheels that we bolt on to this bicylce we are learnng to ride call price action. SonicR works so well because it is based upon price action, wave analsysis, support and resistance. The indicators are secondary. The most important thing for you to focus upon is price itself.

Welcome to SonicR!

Good Luck,

ddaytrader
  • #5,678
  • Edited 2:19pm Aug 28, 2009 1:47pm | Edited 2:19pm
Quoting heartstart
I do however look at candles now that Sonic pulled it out of his secret bag of tricks.
And I may be mistaken, but as far as candlestick analysis, Sonic uses this more on H4 than M15. He may use candlestick terminology to answer a question or describe a set-up on the M15, but I do not believe you will see him say "I took this trade bcasue of the doji or engulfing candle on the M15." He takes trades because of SonciR - waves, S/R, PA. Again, I may be wrong, and Sonic can correct me if I am wrong, but I would caution you not to focus on candlesticks to learn SonicR. I pay no attention whatsoever to candlesticks. In fact, I have done hundreds of live SonicR trades, and it is not uncommon for M15 to form a hammer right at TP1, which on the next candle reverses as price resumes its trip to TP2.

Also, check your Sonic dragon settings: your AUDUSD chart show price remaining above the lower band for more bars than either of the sources I have checked. This will change your entry and diminish your ability to spot confirmed SonicR entries.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
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Click to Enlarge Name: AU 8-28-2009 Sonic Short2.jpg Size: 97 KB
  • #5,679
  • Edited Aug 29, 2009 5:52am Aug 28, 2009 2:14pm | Edited Aug 29, 2009 5:52am
Pending order triggered. Once position is +15, SL moved to SL2. At 0303, TP1 hit and since it friday and not much movement or volume in all four currency that i monitored, i guess its a good idea to close it. Pips is pips .. ahaha

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  • #5,680
  • Aug 28, 2009 2:15pm Aug 28, 2009 2:15pm
Thanks DD. I will go through the thread this weekend and find out what the settings that everyone is using for the dragon so I can be updated on my template so my entries will be more precise. Thanks.
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