NITRO Scalping for serious traders | Page 4 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Trying scalping with a 1000 bucks - Scalping is expensive! 39 replies

CHART Reading for serious traders 453 replies

1M & 5M Scalping System (Scalping Paradise) 21 replies

NITRO Variations for Open-minded Traders 290 replies

Attachments: NITRO Scalping for serious traders
Exit Attachments

NITRO Scalping for serious traders

  • #61
  • Aug 26, 2009 4:45pm Aug 26, 2009 4:45pm
Doc/Jazz
How can you test visually with 10 pip Renko blocks?

After a block forms and until the next one forms all you know is that price is somewhere in a 30 pip range (not more than 10 pips from the top or 10 pips from the bottom). How does that work with a 5 pip TP 10 pip SL? Anything could have happened within that 30 pip range

Also isn't the price used to decide whether to draw a block based on sampling the underlying price say every 1 minute which would mean you miss movement between samples?
  • #62
  • Aug 26, 2009 4:55pm Aug 26, 2009 4:55pm
Quoting FrankenPip
Hi 4xtrader2:

I would continue this discussion but afraid I may be told to "buggar off".
I understand. There is a basis for approaching the market, but expecting the market to do anything but produce data to us sets us up for disappointments.

All I can say guys, is read the book. Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas
4XTrader2
  • #63
  • Aug 26, 2009 4:56pm Aug 26, 2009 4:56pm
Does anyone know of some type of alert that would sound when a new block is formed? My poor eyes are getting tired.....LOL
JoeSDF
A traders greatest enemy is boredom.
  • #64
  • Aug 26, 2009 5:04pm Aug 26, 2009 5:04pm
Quoting jzw
Doc/Jazz
How can you test visually with 10 pip Renko blocks?
It wasn't very scientific just visually counting and looking for patterns.

Quoting jzw
After a block forms and until the next one forms all you know is that price is somewhere in a 30 pip range (not more than 10 pips from the top or 10 pips from the bottom). How does that work with a 5 pip TP 10 pip SL? Anything could have happened within that 30 pip range
Understood thats why its hard to come up with true percentages, these just worse case scenario so far. They dont account for the "ghost bricks" that you may have won the trade. I go for 5 pips max and never use 10 pip sl, some times I'll take 1 and be happy with it if I'm exposed too long.


Quoting jzw
Also isn't the price used to decide whether to draw a block based on sampling the underlying price say every 1 minute which would mean you miss movement between samples?
Someone else will have to answer this, I am a visual trader not a techie.
The Only Constant Is Change!
  • #65
  • Edited 5:16pm Aug 26, 2009 5:09pm | Edited 5:16pm
Quoting JazzmanQ2
Actually it would be a bit higher as some of the second bricks may have gone all the way to 9 pips before pulling back, you would have been able to get 5 or less pips and win the trade. Hard to tell how many, maybe I'll enable the wicks on Renko and look at it. I don't want to over think it, just need to hit it once a day not every time.
I ran the test on this in Tradestation. Here are the basic results.
66.87% profitable trades
TP = 10 pips
SL = 12 pips
Attached File(s)
File Type: xls Basic Renko Trades.xls   150 KB | 971 downloads
4XTrader2
  • #66
  • Aug 26, 2009 5:12pm Aug 26, 2009 5:12pm
Quoting 4xtrader2
I ran the test on this in Tradestation. Here are the basic results:
[font=Calibri]...
What were the diff parameters for testing?
Q
The Only Constant Is Change!
  • #67
  • Aug 26, 2009 5:14pm Aug 26, 2009 5:14pm
Quoting waddij
Something that was asked but not answered:

This thread is for serious traders.

Please be aware that those trading Nitro have done the leg work on C4. If you are new to this thread and have only read this one then please go and read the other C4 thread and if possible the one started by Edgetrader called c4 Scalping.

This thread is dedicated to trading NITRO and not much else. If you feel that as an experienced trader you have an indi or some other observation that you feel would benefit this system then test it for a few weeks, record your...
Thanks Waddij
******************* I'd rather make money than be right.
  • #68
  • Aug 26, 2009 5:17pm Aug 26, 2009 5:17pm
Quoting JazzmanQ2
What were the diff parameters for testing?
Q
Had forgotten to add the attachment. Please refer to the original post.
4XTrader2
  • #69
  • Aug 26, 2009 5:21pm Aug 26, 2009 5:21pm
Quoting 4xtrader2

Back to the drawing board with this one.

Can anyone see how to eliminate the single bar trades?

Momentum???
  • #70
  • Aug 26, 2009 5:42pm Aug 26, 2009 5:42pm
Quoting 4xtrader2
I ran the test on this in Tradestation. Here are the basic results.
66.87% profitable trades
TP = 10 pips
SL = 12 pips
Not bad, how about the other end of the spectrum during the suggested time? Appreciate the work!
TP=5
SL=30
I see what you are going for on the ratio, but a 12 pip stop on E/J won't do anytime.
Q
The Only Constant Is Change!
  • #71
  • Aug 26, 2009 5:49pm Aug 26, 2009 5:49pm
Quoting JazzmanQ2
Not bad, how about the other end of the spectrum during the suggested time? Appreciate the work!
TP=5
SL=30
I see what you are going for on the ratio, but a 12 pip stop on E/J won't do anytime.
Q

You don't even wanna know... It would lose my shorts, my house, my dog, my pickup truck, maybe even my wife... The best results came from a 10 pip profit target and a 6 pip stop loss which gets you out right away.
4XTrader2
  • #72
  • Aug 26, 2009 5:57pm Aug 26, 2009 5:57pm
Hi guys, I'm really interested in the discussion you are having on finding a statistically profitable way to trade renko bars. FYI, I have read every post on the original C4 thread, and have been experimenting with both C4 and Nitro for a couple weeks.

I think the easiest TP and SL would depend on the pair you are testing, and your regular spread. For me, a complete brick on EJ means +6 (you can do +5 in case you missed the entry by 1 pip to be conservative). In the other direction, a completed brick is -24 (2 x 10 + spread). I don't see any reason to test with 30 as a stop loss; a new brick is formed in the other direction before that, which would be an obvious signal the trade is a loser.

This is the easiest way to visually backtest with Renko bars. Of course, you can use the wicks to test other strategies, as I think 24 might be too big of a stop loss, if you are really going for high momentum moves.

I like the idea of looking for patterns in renko bars themselves, and waiting for reversal patterns (2 bars in opposite direction, etc.) I definitely agree trading with the trend should filter some losers.

I look forward to finding a statistically significant high probability set up together, in addition to manually trading based on correlation, etc.

Thanks!

Cory
  • #73
  • Aug 26, 2009 6:21pm Aug 26, 2009 6:21pm
>> Someone else will have to answer this, I am a visual trader not a techie.

You're not interested in how the chart is constructed? Why would you want to trade using something you don't understand - and I'm not talking about the code but the general principal of what price is used to draw it.

Using daily prices to construct a Renko chart you would use just the closing price. I'm assuming that on an intraday basis you'd use the price every X minutes. The bigger you make X the more price ticks you ignore. Importantly Renko ignores the range of prices between samples, which you see on bar/candle charts.

Be very careful trading using Renko charts because the chart gives a distorted view of reality.
  • #74
  • Aug 26, 2009 6:27pm Aug 26, 2009 6:27pm
Quoting jzw
>> Someone else will have to answer this, I am a visual trader not a techie.

You're not interested in how the chart is constructed? Why would you want to trade using something you don't understand - and I'm not talking about the code but the general principal of what price is used to draw it.

Using daily prices to construct a...
Thanks for your concern, but we have already been through the Renko trials. I think that there is a better thread for you than this if you are going to lecture on Renko...everyone here is using it.
Q
The Only Constant Is Change!
  • #75
  • Aug 26, 2009 6:36pm Aug 26, 2009 6:36pm
Quoting 4xtrader2
I would concur with your observation to a certain degree. I just completed my own and here is what my findings are:
Period of observation: 6/25/2009 to 8/25/2009
Number of direction changes: 1100
Number of single bricks: 304
Percentage of single bricks to Direction Change: 27.64%
Which means 72.36% of all trades would be profitable on second brick.

However, if you add a 48 MA as suggested and only trade the trend, you would still have only 72% profitable trades because half of your direction changes would still be single brick changes. This is...


I think your numbers are understaing the potential results. Remember that with each single block the PA may have travelled to the 5 pip take profit point before reversing to form a block in the opposite direction. Assuing 25% make the 5 pip target + spread then that improves your stats.

regards

Peter
  • #76
  • Aug 26, 2009 7:22pm Aug 26, 2009 7:22pm
Meanwhile back at the beach
I knew that 134 had a lot of support but price had good momentum coming down...kaboom.
I took second trade (not recommended) as price broke through resistance then pulled back a couple of pips then...Kaboom.
First trade was a safer trade.
Q
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: nm.jpg Size: 161 KB
The Only Constant Is Change!
  • #77
  • Aug 26, 2009 7:35pm Aug 26, 2009 7:35pm
Quoting FrankenPip
Hi DocPMD:

Don't let the rat beat you.

"Unless you experience the unpleasant symptoms of being wrong, your brain will never revise its models. Before your neurons can succeed, they must repeatedly fail. There are no shortcuts for this painstaking process."

Pg 54 - HOW WE DECIDE


"Look, for example, at this elegant little experiment. A rat was put in a T-shaped maze with a few morsels of food placed on either the far right or left side of the enclosure. The placement of the food is randomly determined, but the dice is rigged: over...
Frank,

Seems like I've read the rat experiment a thousand times by now, and I understand the meaning of it.

But I'm not sure how it relates to the context of my post.

If I were the rat, I would take the Renko reversal every time, because the wins/losses come in random order and you never know which trade will yield the "food". I understand and agree with that. Problem is, in our maze you would only get the food around 70% of the time, and in order to stay fat and happy with a 5 pip target and 20+ pip SL we would need to get food over 85% of the time. So the only solution is to change the maze.

How can we change the maze, well I can think of a few of ways:

1. Go for more pips on a win (subject of the other nitro thread);

2. Tolerate fewer pips on a loss (some here are attempting this, but probably not "rat like");

3. Improve the hit rate by improving the entry signal (a lot of people working on this so we can still act like rats);

4. Other things that I have not thought of.

I'm pretty sure that I understand the concepts, please clarify your example if you think I am misinterpreting your post.

Doc

BTW - My rat captured two +5 wins riding your blue trains earlier today. So I haven't given up on your method.
  • #78
  • Aug 26, 2009 7:44pm Aug 26, 2009 7:44pm
Back to normality
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: asian 1.gif Size: 72 KB
  • #79
  • Aug 26, 2009 7:50pm Aug 26, 2009 7:50pm
The following should be obvious - if Nitro is a profitable system that profitability does not come from using Renko charts.

If a sequence down bricks ends and you get an up brick that signifies exactly one thing - that price reversed at least 20 pips from when the last down brick was drawn.

Does reversing 20/30/40 pips mean that the next 5 pips will also be in that direction? I don't know - but you don't need Renko charts to test that assertion.

Renko charts are a (deliberate?) distraction.
  • #80
  • Aug 26, 2009 8:07pm Aug 26, 2009 8:07pm
Quoting FrankenPip
...no amount of knowledge or rational analysis could help you figure out what would happen next. All of the esoteric tools used by investors to make sense of the market were pure nonsense...."
Then Renko Bricks are nonsense?

I'm still using C4, but cannot see the difference between Renko Bricks and lines on a regular chart spaced 5 or 10 pips apart. Would someone like to explain the advantage of Renko? Isn't waiting for a new brick to form the same as waiting for price to move 5 pips or 10 pips on a regular chart?

1 trader viewing now