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NITRO Variations for Open-minded Traders

  • #21
  • Aug 26, 2009 2:45pm Aug 26, 2009 2:45pm
I am a futures trader and have been looking to venture into forex. I've read most of the C4 thread with a special interest in the use of renko and you guys are definitely on the right track. I just wanted to offer a thought that I hope can be helpful. It seems that you have maximized the utility of indicators within this system, and any more time spent tweaking them or looking for new ones would probably be better spent elsewhere--especially when it comes to renko.

Your system relies heavily on a high hit rate to make up for the R:R. Looking at the 4 pairs and the overall momentum of the markets (not the momentum indicator) is a great way to increase the hit rate. The focus should now be on finding high probability setups or patterns within the blocks that will increase your hit rate even more. This is true price action. I took Edgetrader's last chart and marked it to show some examples.

Long story short: indicators will not get you to where you want to go and in my opinion, the day you get rid of them is the day your trading takes off (that's just opinion however as I know many like to use them). Your time and community effort would be best spent in trying to achieve the high hit rate by looking at price action alone--or more specifically how and WHY the renko blocks form the way they do. Study and track these formations with statistics/probabilities and you will be successful. That's where the efforts of a community could be put to good use. The devil is now in the details and hard work really will pay off--literally. Keep up the good work. Hope this helps.

(I was going to post this in the other Nitro thread but thought it may be more appropriate here, though it would certainly apply there as well.)
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  • #22
  • Aug 26, 2009 3:20pm Aug 26, 2009 3:20pm
Ouch! Guys! How many similar renko/nitro threads are we gonna have now?
  • #23
  • Aug 26, 2009 3:50pm Aug 26, 2009 3:50pm
Just one new nitro thread where the devotees mindlessly only want to follow the original nitro as dictated and dont want to hear about anything else or improving.

"Edge" has given that in a form to introduce it..its not perfected, even he, for whatever real reason was planning on releasing the next level of nitro... why stick your head in the sand and focus on what (the person who brought it to you already said) is not the best you can do???

Brian

Quoting bali2002
Ouch! Guys! How many similar renko/nitro threads are we gonna have now?
  • #24
  • Aug 26, 2009 3:52pm Aug 26, 2009 3:52pm
Quoting zznbrm
My work is similar to the work some of FrankenPips crew is doing with momentum. For example, let's take the 4 JPY Nitro pairs. What kind of momentum does JPY have in the market? Which of the pairs is currently the strongest in the JPY direction? Which is the weakest? Which pair was strongest 1 minute ago? 30 seconds ago? 10 seconds ago? Is the momentum increasing or decreasing?
HI zznbrm:

There is no "crew". Only a lone monster sitting in the playroom, playing with trains making sure I don't get beat by the rat.

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If you only trade long, then you can't always be wrong.
  • #25
  • Aug 26, 2009 4:21pm Aug 26, 2009 4:21pm
You are using the 2 111 on the renko scalper candles?

Brian

Quoting 4xtrader2
No doctored screens just 6th day in a row making a profit. The key is price action. Note that I removed everything but the Renko scalper candles and the MA. I have another MA on the chart strictly to help me identify the larger trend.

I am only posting the EJ chart as this is all I traded today.
  • #26
  • Aug 26, 2009 4:23pm Aug 26, 2009 4:23pm
Quoting golden1
You are using the 2 111 on the renko scalper candles?

Brian
That is correct.
4XTrader2
  • #27
  • Aug 26, 2009 6:51pm Aug 26, 2009 6:51pm
Quoting zznbrm
It seems "Price Acton" is this method's version of "Yada Yada Yada":

"The TRIX was RED for all four Nitro pairs, yada yada yada, I made 5 pips."
"The TRIX was RED for all four Nitro pairs, I noticed the price action, I made 5 pips."

"Yada Yada Yada" can and should be put into words (or numbers).
This is very true. If more people who are achieving success with Nitro could try and put into language exactly what is going through their heads when their trades are made, we may have a better chance of coming up with a set of rules that are effective consistently.

One example that is constantly used is correlation:-

"I checked correlation between the yen crosses and bang 5 pips!"

I've done this too. But what do I actually mean?

I've seen the pairs move in unison, up or down. Often there are leading pairs (e.g. EY or GY) and lagging pairs (e.g. AY). Let's say EY and GY start heading south. AY will follow shortly after. Here a quick 5 pips could be made by going in for this move.

Is this what everyone else considers to be meant by correlation? Are there other tricks people use?
  • #28
  • Aug 27, 2009 1:58am Aug 27, 2009 1:58am
Quoting walb99
Your sentence:
"there are no patterns like this."
IMO
Many traders make their livelihood trading one and only one "pattern"--whether it's triangles, boxes, j-hooks, ABCs, etc. Human emotion has always and will continue to manifest itself in repeated price movements over and over and over again. One of the advantages of renko is that it makes patterns and price action easier to identify. Renko also makes it easier to define price action with specificity and determine probabilities with regards to hit rates, targets, and stop losses. It's a simple game of probabilities and highs & lows. Put the probabilities in your favor and you win. Pretending that there are no similarities in price movement is laughable. How would you even know when to enter the market? An entry "setup" is, after all, a pattern. Douglas did say every moment in the market is unique. He did not say there are no patterns. There is a difference.
  • #29
  • Aug 27, 2009 2:23am Aug 27, 2009 2:23am
Quoting asdf
I am a futures trader and have been looking to venture into forex. I've read most of the C4 thread with a special interest in the use of renko and you guys are definitely on the right track. I just wanted to offer a thought that I hope can be helpful. It seems that you have maximized the utility of indicators within this system, and any more time spent tweaking them or looking for new ones would probably be better spent elsewhere--especially when it comes to renko.

Your system relies heavily on a high hit rate to make up for the R:R. Looking at...
I agree. Renko is great at identifying 2 to 3 block consolidation areas. Always a high probability to breakout or run a couple blocks especially or in particular with the trend.
  • #30
  • Aug 27, 2009 6:15am Aug 27, 2009 6:15am
Quoting asdf
I am a futures trader and have been looking to venture into forex....
Thank you, asdf .... very constructive and helpful.

Please, if you can, would you post similar illustrated screenshots of other relaible Renko brick pattern setups like these?

Way to go .... and thanks, again, for your input.
  • #31
  • Aug 27, 2009 6:17am Aug 27, 2009 6:17am
Quoting walb99
the only "pattern" I see here is: price is going up to pivot level and then down
good bye
Price Action patterns obscured by indicators !!
  • #32
  • Aug 27, 2009 7:14am Aug 27, 2009 7:14am
Quoting asdf
(I was going to post this in the other Nitro thread but thought it may be more appropriate here, though it would certainly apply there as well.)
Please do re-post it there as well, I believe this observation captures the spirit of what we are trying to achieve using renko. Very valuable information, thanks.
******************* I'd rather make money than be right.
  • #33
  • Edited 7:57am Aug 27, 2009 7:38am | Edited 7:57am
Hello ASDF,

very interesting. Are the patters u are taking with renko charts limited ? Which ones do you trade ? Just the patterns you marked on the screenshots ? Or do you trade other patterns too ?

Regards,
Tex

Quoting asdf
I am a futures trader and have been looking to venture into forex. I've read most of the C4 thread with a special interest in the use of renko and you guys are definitely on the right track. I just wanted to offer a thought that I hope can be helpful. It seems that you have maximized the utility of indicators within this system, and any more time spent tweaking them or looking for new ones would probably be better spent elsewhere--especially when it comes to renko.

Your system relies heavily on a high hit rate to make up for the R:R. Looking at...
  • #34
  • Aug 27, 2009 8:06am Aug 27, 2009 8:06am
Quoting asdf
I am a futures trader and have been looking to venture into forex. I've read most of the C4 thread with a special interest in the use of renko and you guys are definitely on the right track. I just wanted to offer a thought that I hope can be helpful. It seems that you have maximized the utility of indicators within this system, and any more time spent tweaking them or looking for new ones would probably be better spent elsewhere--especially when it comes to renko.

Your system relies heavily on a high hit rate to make up for the R:R. Looking at...
The 'value' of Nitro (Renko) is way underestimated in and of the threads, old and new.

This posting should be 'kept' by anyone really seeking a liftoff in their trading efforts.

Thanks.

P.S. Yeah, was really efficient in mini Dow and mini Russel for me anyways.
  • #35
  • Aug 27, 2009 8:24am Aug 27, 2009 8:24am
It's a small deal but it makes a big difference for me..is momentum.
I have very specific rules for the momentum indy
1. I added levels 100.05 and 99.95 for confirmed crosses
100 crosses are not good enough for me
2. I only enter if momentum crossed up or down
correctly the same candle as my signal, ie the
same renko bar that the trix or dxtrade etc gave an
arrow. If it crossed before, even 1 bar before I let
the trade go...its about momentum, the momentum
has to break my levels at the same time as everything
else I am looking at for a trade.

Brian
  • #36
  • Aug 27, 2009 8:30am Aug 27, 2009 8:30am
Quick in and out on two trades. Both trades less than a minute in the market. 7th day in a row profitable for the day.

If you want to "see" price action focus on the chart. Watch the bars forming and the price on the sideline. The first trade was right after the news. I couldn't even get the profit target set. The second trade was made from the traditional "signal" of price crossing MA, Scalper Candle changing color and closing, and "Boom!" in the trade and out. I set the profit target wrong on the second trade. I was intending 5 pips (which it hit) and then reversed, so I got out with 4 pips.
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4XTrader2
  • #37
  • Aug 27, 2009 9:08am Aug 27, 2009 9:08am
Here my Nitro trades for today. Using a slightly modified setup.
MA in Color_wAppliedPrice setttings 50,3,6 for direction.
DXTrade C4 Nitro Dashboard settings 3,10,4 for entries, could just use TRIX settings 3,E,E,E,C instead.
Nitro-Momentum-Indy-V2 for additional entries.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #38
  • Aug 27, 2009 10:07am Aug 27, 2009 10:07am
Quoting tex
Hello ASDF,

very interesting. Are the patters u are taking with renko charts limited ? Which ones do you trade ? Just the patterns you marked on the screenshots ? Or do you trade other patterns too ?

Regards,
Tex
Tex,

I don't trade with renko. I use ohlc and candles on time and volume based bars. Those patterns were just ones that jumped out when I saw the chart, patterns that are found using ohlc bars but without the noise. I am not a pattern trader per se, I look at them in context of the big picture. My interest in the C4 thread was the use of renko because it seems there may be a real benefit in defining probabilities.

Take, for example, the box breakout in the upper left chart that I posted earlier. With renko you can define those with specificity. So call that one a "6-block box." You can then determine the probability of a one block breakout to continue on to two blocks, to n blocks, etc. With the trend, against the trend, etc. If there is, say, a 75% chance of continuation to a second block and a 60% chance of continuation to a third block, then you may want to adjust your profit target. You could then compare that to, say, an "8-block box," a "10-block box," and so on. Similarly, in the bottom two charts that i posted you could compare the hit rate and R:R of an M-reversal that is two blocks high versus an M-reversal that is three blocks high. This seems to be a real advantage of renko, but then again, I have only just started my due diligence.

Hope that helps.
  • #39
  • Aug 27, 2009 10:57am Aug 27, 2009 10:57am
Quoting Dm3554
Thank you, asdf .... very constructive and helpful.

Please, if you can, would you post similar illustrated screenshots of other relaible Renko brick pattern setups like these?

Way to go .... and thanks, again, for your input.
Sure. I use two computers, one to trade, one to surf. So I hope 4xtrader2 doesn't mind that I borrowed his chart. This chart is the essence of price action. Call it a touch-n-go, retrace-n-race, flip, whatever, they are all the same. And if you trade with the trend, probabilities are in your favor with a good R:R.

Second note to improve your R:R. In general, uptrends make higher highs, downtrends make lower lows. So your target should be no less than the lower low in that chart--again, if you're with the trend and you see all the other pairs moving that direction, probabilities are in your favor. If it doesn't make it there, then you have just paid for a very valuable piece of information. Don't let it go to waste!

(By the way, that is a matching-highs-with-the-trend pattern. You have to allow for 1 block of noise with renko because the difference between 9 and 11 pips is only 2 pips but one whole brick.)
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  • #40
  • Aug 27, 2009 11:55am Aug 27, 2009 11:55am
Quoting 4xtrader2
Quick in and out on two trades. Both trades less than a minute in the market. 7th day in a row profitable for the day.

If you want to "see" price action focus on the chart. Watch the bars forming and the price on the sideline. The first trade was right after the news. I couldn't even get the profit target set. The second trade was made from the traditional "signal" of price crossing MA, Scalper Candle changing color and closing, and "Boom!" in the trade and out. I set the profit target wrong on the second trade. I was intending 5 pips (which...
Hi ! I need an answer, please.

I know i will ask a stupid question, but i need an answer please!
I saw one order that you've done: "EURJPY; sell; 1 lot;price 133,69;
TP 133.65; Profit 42,63. There's a difference the only 6 pips. I saw that you have entered with 1 lots, but what is the leverage? Is there other aspect who affects this thing?

Thank you!
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