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4% A Day Forever

  • #41
  • Jul 23, 2009 5:28am Jul 23, 2009 5:28am
agree with theGreatMilenko and Dopey

you should look for occasional great profits and not a daily income
Invincibility lies in the defence, the possibility of victory in the attack
  • #42
  • Jul 23, 2009 5:47am Jul 23, 2009 5:47am
I really don't see a issue with 4% per day, if he was saying 100% per day maybe, but he's looking at making £50 say today then £52 tommorow so on and so forth, thats 30pips per day.

I just closed my first trade +28pips at $2 per pip = £34.16 I had £302 so thats 11.3%.

If you've got a good plan and your a good trader and you rarely lose then you can risk more, I was risking @£24 worse case hit stop, I'll generally bail before that think @£12, and I walk away with a profit on @75% of my trades although small in many cases.

My issue is, I'll get stuck in, start moving my SL further out then take a big hit, which I'm doing less.

And I'm sure he knows, he won't always make 4% sometimes he'll have down days, don't take it to seriously, and hopefully sometimes he'll have +10% days. It's a goal!!
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #43
  • Jul 23, 2009 5:55am Jul 23, 2009 5:55am
And no it's not the same ( maybe he can handle it dunno it's possible )

I was trading at 8% risk, which is actually low for me, I likely won't increase my lot to $3 per pip until I can do it with sub 6%, then $4 with sub 5% and so on and so worth until I'm risking @2%.

Sadly I need to take a wage from this so I need to not keep blowing accounts, although I could add if I blew this account it's different with a 10K account ofcourse so I can afford to take the risks at this level.

2% of 10K would get me @$20 per pip so that trade woulda got me £341 or 3.4% with just 1 trade, I know you have to factor in losers, but 4% is nothing.

IF YOUR A GOOD TRADER!!!
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #44
  • Jul 23, 2009 5:57am Jul 23, 2009 5:57am
Quoting Jimmy Jones
So are you saying that limit is hard wired and there is nothing one can do to overcome it? An honest question btw, not trying to be a dick.
Sure, it's hardwired. We don't like losing and we certainly don't like losing our possessions. Every person has a limit as to how much loss they can withstand, some more than others, obviously.

I never even alluded to not being to overcome it. But doing so takes a lot of personal work, just like overcoming any of our fears. As someone as already posted in response, but 1% is still 1%. Yes, if we were calculators,or Borg, then that would be just dandy. But we're not, we're people who think about what that money can do.

I've been meditating consistently for 8 months now. It's helped me quite a bit in dealing with the growth in my managed funds. It's not easy and it takes constant monitoring. I meditate every day BEFORE I trade. I try to only think about the percentages, but there are times when I start thinking about the dollars. I'm managing in the mid-six figures now, so a loss or a win is in the thousands of dollars.

It's a slow process and I believe many can do it but only if they specifically address the issue. The problem is new traders are only thinking about entries and exits, not about how they are feeling and reacting to the entire process.

I also believe that everyone has an ultimate limit. Right now, I can't comprehend putting on a trade for say 100 lots. I couldn't do it even if I had the funds. At some point, I think everyone finds the ultimate comfort zone and/or limit and says to themself, "Ok, that's it. I don't need to trade any bigger, this is just fine, it's bringing in more than enough money. I don't need to be the next Paul Tudor Jones with an $11 billion dollar fund." Guys like him are the extreme. For most of us, if we can push $500,000 around with letting it get to us, we're doing great.
  • #45
  • Jul 23, 2009 6:01am Jul 23, 2009 6:01am
Quoting Turveyd
I really don't see a issue with 4% per day,...
so lets say you have 302,000 and lost 12,000 ... and five times more
you then lost 72,000 or 23%, maybe all on one day

can you rule out you'd lose six times in a row or does a 23% loss on 302,000 mean something to you?
Invincibility lies in the defence, the possibility of victory in the attack
  • #46
  • Jul 23, 2009 6:04am Jul 23, 2009 6:04am
Mates just lose on futures getting stupid $54K with a $250K account, he's bothered ofcourse, but thats like 3years of basic surviving wages to me pretty much, ARRGGGGGGHHHHHH Mind blowing figure to me.

£5000 per month some times would allow me to do anything pretty much i want ( okay no 1st class flights ), but I'm happy with economy, so why have more than 10K-20K in my account, not worth the stress / worry.

* he says really hoping he gets there by the end of next year LOL *
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #47
  • Jul 23, 2009 6:09am Jul 23, 2009 6:09am
Quoting silverheat
so lets say you have 302.000 and lost 12.000 ... and five times more
you then lost 72.000 or 23%, maybe all on one day

can you rule out you'd lose six times in a row or does a 23% loss on 302.000 mean something to you?

I've taken the account not that many months back from £390 ( Can't get over that £400 reversed off it 3times HARD ), back to £100 in about 2hours averaging down when the market kept running against me without letting up so yeah it can happen.

Part of the learning curve, still a works in progress for me.

My business is going under, so I'll be near enough full time from next Wednesday seriously Scared me NO NO NO ( well okay maybe a lot )


My systems improved, my application of my system has well I actually use the system and don't trade against it LOL so it's all good.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #48
  • Jul 23, 2009 6:26am Jul 23, 2009 6:26am
Quoting Turveyd
I've taken the account not that many months back from £390 ( Can't get over that £400 reversed off it 3times HARD ),...
i wish you well with your system, but i dont know if its a good idea to stay in front of the screen all day, like real work, you need some fresh air man
Invincibility lies in the defence, the possibility of victory in the attack
  • #49
  • Jul 23, 2009 6:30am Jul 23, 2009 6:30am
Quoting silverheat
i wish you well with your system, but i dont know if its a good idea to stay in front of the screen all day, like real work, you need some fresh air man

I'm not going to be don't worry, far too lazy for that 4 - 5 hours per day with a break inbetween will do me nicely.

Then Mountain Biking, Gym ( rare ), swimming, visiting mates same as normal really.

1 day per week, I'll trade with a girl at her house while having a laugh.

And with my Netbook + Phone connection I can head up a local hill when the weather is good and trade on the top in the fresh air for @2hours
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #50
  • Jul 23, 2009 6:42am Jul 23, 2009 6:42am
Quoting Turveyd
I'm not going to be don't worry, far too lazy for that 4 - 5 hours per day with a break inbetween will do me nicely.

Then Mountain Biking, Gym ( rare ), swimming, visiting mates same as normal really.

1 day per week, I'll trade with a girl at her house while having a laugh.

And with my Netbook + Phone connection I can head up a local hill when the weather is good and trade on the top in the fresh air for @2hours
great , very nice life

well, i like to trade weekly, h4 entry, because the smaller the timeframe the ... fill in the blank, hunting for a fixed amount a day seems silly to me
Invincibility lies in the defence, the possibility of victory in the attack
  • #51
  • Jul 23, 2009 6:51am Jul 23, 2009 6:51am
Quoting silverheat
great , very nice life

well, i like to trade weekly, h4 entry, because the smaller the timeframe the ... fill in the blank, hunting for a fixed amount a day seems silly to me

Haven't got and don't want a H4 system, don't see enough consistency in it, so will stick to working for a few hours per day ( well trading )
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #52
  • Jul 23, 2009 7:17am Jul 23, 2009 7:17am
Quoting Turveyd
Haven't got and don't want a H4 system, don't see enough consistency in it, so will stick to working for a few hours per day ( well trading )
good luck then

and the Fool, you are well aware that 4% a day is impossible, nonetheless, keeping an eye on the target doesnt do much harm, the harm is done by the risk you take to get to it every day. so given no continually profits the excelsheet is useless, the farther you go, the more you are biased.
you could lock yourself out of big winners, if someday you say 4% is enough, with the high risk you took to get it, i would be glad to have arrived at my target. however, good luck to you too
Invincibility lies in the defence, the possibility of victory in the attack
  • #53
  • Jul 23, 2009 9:59am Jul 23, 2009 9:59am
Quoting silverheat
good luck then

and the Fool, you are well aware that 4% a day is impossible, nonetheless, keeping an eye on the target doesnt do much harm, the harm is done by the risk you take to get to it every day. so given no continually profits the excelsheet is useless, the farther you go, the more you are biased.
you could lock yourself out of big winners, if someday you say 4% is enough, with the high risk you took to get it, i would be glad to have arrived at my target. however, good luck to you too
Thanks, silverheat. I am glad some folks have found some interest in this thread. I am just looking to take what the market gives up, if 4% or more or less its all good, just so it ain't a minus.

I do believe that, though, that sometimes, it is important to be able to say, "Enough." Obviously.

I made this thread as an exercise to suit my purposes, which include training myself how to trade. My weakness is money management, so I made the spreadsheet to give myself some structure to work around, so in that sense, it is not useless. Otherwise, I'm sure many many traders make these fantasy spreadsheets & there's no harm in a little numerical fantasy now and then.

I am flat on the day so far. Scalped for an hour or so at the FO/LO but the PA sucked, so I came out even. Wasn't feelin it well enough to exploit painfully flat PA. Was dog tird & gave up fighting it. Woke up this morning to see I had missed some big big moves in the E/U. No problem. Its a new day and there will be opportunities for me.

Good luck all.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #54
  • Jul 24, 2009 12:09pm Jul 24, 2009 12:09pm
Finished Thursday with 2.9% banked and an open short position on E/U. Short position still open, out of the money, and I will hold through the weekend now, it seems. I am not trading well. Overtraded during London that had some PA that didn't suit me for scalping but tried anyway and went in the hole a few percent. Made it back in the NY session. Thursday NY session had lots of opportunities & good traders scored lots of pips. I saw these and traded them but executed poorly and got less than half of what I should have. Now this open position is one I placed with strong belief and a good measure of greed. And no stop losses - precisely the attributes of my downfall experienced before many times, but repeated yet again. Depressing. A move to .4150 will get me BE, though. A return to rangebound PA will hit that. The position is not overlarge & is hundreds of pip away from margin limit. Good luck to me.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #55
  • Jul 24, 2009 12:28pm Jul 24, 2009 12:28pm
Trading will be a continual works in progress and slipping back to old ways, it's normal for all of us so don't beat yourself up to bad!!


You can trade on Monday and for most thats doing well
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #56
  • Jul 24, 2009 12:37pm Jul 24, 2009 12:37pm
Quoting Turveyd
Trading will be a continual works in progress and slipping back to old ways, it's normal for all of us so don't beat yourself up to bad!!


You can trade on Monday and for most thats doing well
Thank you amigo. I don't believe for a minute that I have lost my mojo. But it slipped on the first days when I started a public trading journal. Classic Instant Karma.

It is helpful for me to confess my sins, maybe shame will be the secret ingredient that will help me learn.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #57
  • Jul 24, 2009 2:23pm Jul 24, 2009 2:23pm
Quoting The Fool
Thank you amigo. I don't believe for a minute that I have lost my mojo. But it slipped on the first days when I started a public trading journal. Classic Instant Karma.

It is helpful for me to confess my sins, maybe shame will be the secret ingredient that will help me learn.
There are some days when you just shouldn't go near your computer. A big battle to be won is knowing when these days are, and then doing the right thing.
  • #58
  • Jul 24, 2009 2:43pm Jul 24, 2009 2:43pm
Quoting Dopey
There are some days when you just shouldn't go near your computer. A big battle to be won is knowing when these days are, and then doing the right thing.
Yes, that's true. Knowing when to stay away, knowing when to call it a day, knowing when greed or emotion or fatigue is overshadowing your better judgement...there is a long list of things like this that one must learn, through experience, if one is to come out ahead consistently in this game. The simple act of taking some pips is the easier part of it, I think.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #59
  • Jul 27, 2009 5:10pm Jul 27, 2009 5:10pm
interesting thread, tho I'm a bit skeptical regarding the fixed daily profit target - any chances to see some charts?
forget about tomorrow, just steal away into the night
  • #60
  • Jul 27, 2009 5:14pm Jul 27, 2009 5:14pm
Quoting spekitox
interesting thread, tho I'm a bit skeptical regarding the fixed daily profit target - any chances to see some charts?
4% a day got off to a pretty rough start. I am in a short trade since late last week & waiting for it to come around. Trading FX futures in the meantime. I will put up some charts when I get back into spot fx trading. Need .4150 to break even....
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
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